Do you believe in them? Im seeing alot of people like buzz the astronaut and the dvd with high profile military and nasa poeple discussing that there are flying objects out there:confused:
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Do you believe in them? Im seeing alot of people like buzz the astronaut and the dvd with high profile military and nasa poeple discussing that there are flying objects out there:confused:
For every grain of sand on the planet is a sun. Each sun has a solar system. It's hard to believe that we are the only planet capable of sustaining life.
I believe to a degree but i don't think they are more advanced then us.
Or we could be the exception. The right circumstances alligned to create life.
I do find it hard to believe that if intelligent life has visited our planet that they would travel all this way only to anal probe us.
I find it hard to believe that no astronomer (professional or otherwise) has ever seen a 'UFO'. Most of the time, what people see is Venus low in the horizon.
While there quite probably is life out there somewhere, we aren't being visited as yet.
Buzz Aldrin talking about that incident: Aldrin confirmed that there was no such sighting of anything deemed extraterrestrial, and said they were and are "99.9 percent" sure that the object was the detached panel (from the Apollo mission).
I want to believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Autocon
The truth is out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordCyrusOmega
Deny everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonac
Surely there would be life out there that would be more advanced than us, that's why they are smart enough not to come and visit haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordCyrusOmega
You'd really have to be naive to think that there would be no other life out there. Just maybe not life as we know it. (There's life Jim but not as we know it :p)
I'm with Cyrus on this one.
If you consider that there are a number of characterstics that have helped life flourish on this planet (distance from the sun, atmosphere, liquid water, asteroid protection from further out in the solar system) then at some point elsewhere in the Universe these will be replicated.
Reptoids
they found microbes on mars!
thats not even out of our solar system......lol
there has gotta be other forms of life out there....just purely on numbers.
for me it's not a question of if there's life....it's a question of how we would cross the vastness that lies between us.
here's hoping that they figure it out and spock lands in my lifetime :D
janda :)
Someone hasn't watched Event Horizon in a while... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by janda the red
Science cannot disprove the existence of Transformers.
Fossilised microbes. There used to be life on Mars... no evidence of life still existing on Mars now though. Though there's a theory that Mars may still have reserves of water deep underground...Quote:
Originally Posted by janda the red
The other next best bet of finding life in our star system is Jupiter's moon of Europa.
Or Macross. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubledealer
You guys should read Transformers and Philosophy -- discussion thread here -- read post #2 about the reasons why contact with intelligent extra-terrestrial life probably won't be friendly. ;)
Those 'microbes' are just a hypothesis.
It's a lot more probable that they are inorganic in origin.
I believ in U.F.O's. In the literal sense. At times we see something in the air that we cannot identify. It is therefor an unidentified flying object. Later on we might decide it was actually a cloud or whatever, but at the time it was a U.F.O :p
Alien life? Well the odds are probably pretty slim, but the universe is a big place, so I guess it's possible, bt considering the age of the earth and how long it has sustained life, I think the odds of finding another civilisation at the same evolutionary scale to us is remote.
Remember that the most successful species on the planet was the humble Trilobite, excluding our friend bacteria of course.
If thee be follower of Carl Sagan, then thee shall believe in extraterrestial life in the cosmos.
Id rather not cross the vastness by using that method.......... eeeewww:o:oQuote:
Originally Posted by Doubledealer
its not what buzz siad here;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkV1...layer_embedded
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/dv...Saw-DVD-Review
I Know What I Saw - interesting ufo doco;)
Event Horizon.......:p man that movie freaked me out 1st time i saw it.....lol
gok: yeah.....they maybe fossilized, but life is life yeah?
dont get me wrong....i'm optimistic there is life out there in some form, but i'm not wearing a little silver foil cap as i type this ;)
janda :)
Ah, Event Horizon - I absolutely love that movie! :D
On the possibility of life outside of our Solar System? - There is and there is no question about it, the better question is: What exactly constitutes life? what is life's definition? ;)
On the question of Alien beings visiting us? - I'm not sure of the scientists name but he put it very eloquently:
Personally, I believe if we are ever to come into contact with an Alien Species, then we're not going to live long enough to even know about it. :oQuote:
"Now, in order for Aliens to visit Earth they would have to be many millions of times more advanced than ourselves and to them, we would be nothing but mere animals compared.
So, imagine the Aliens are Us and We are a Colony of Ants - Now, why would a Supremely Advanced Race bother to come and visit us?, How often do you go and visit an Ant Colony?
The answer is you don't and for the exact same reasons why Aliens don't visit us, as they are so much more advanced than us they would be concentrating their time and efforts on doing things and solving problems we could never comprehend - Just like an Ant cannot comprehend the things we do".
The generally accepted definition is something that exhibits all (or most) of the following characteristics:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hursticon
Organisation
Structurally composed of one or more cells, the basic units of life. Cells have sub-cellular complexities and in multicellular organisms, they are organised into tissues, organs and systems.
Homeostasis
Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state. e.g. sweating, shivering, sun-basking, electrolyte concentration etc.
Movement
Some organisms like animals actively move for locomotion from one place to another. Movement in other organisms like plants is barely noticeable (e.g. growing toward a light source (phototropism)).
Metabolism
Creating energy through chemical conversions, e.g. respiration, feeding, photosynthesis etc.
Growth
Changing and developing, e.g. in size, shape etc.
Response to stimuli
e.g. single-cell organisms contracting in response to external chemicals, multicellular organisms using using their senses for complex reactions, phototropism etc.
Adaptation
The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This is fundamental to evolution and is determined by organism's genes as well as the environment (and how the species can genetically evolve and adapt).
Reproduction
Ability to produce new individual organisms within its own species either sexually or asexually.
-----------------------------
By this definition, a virus is NOT considered to be a living organism because it fulfills some of the definitions, but not all of them. A virus does possess genes and evolve by natural selection, however they are not made from any cells (not even one - they don't even possess DNA, which is considered to be the basic building block of life), they lack their own metabolism and are unable to naturally reproduce on their own (they need to use a host organism to reproduce, much like a Xenomorph!).
This definition would also exclude non-biological entities like Cybertronians or any form of life that has evolved to become energy beings (considered by some as being the penultimate form of evolution). Of course, this definition was created by humans based on what they've observed on their own mudball. Cybertronians initially didn't consider non-mechanical organisms to be living... in the G1 comics the Transformers initially thought that Earth's vehicles were the dominant life forms on Earth. It was only after a while that they discovered that Earth machines are non-living and that organic creatures are.
...except for Tailgate who's always believed that Earth's machines are slaves and hopes one day to emancipate them. "I have a dream!" :D
I visit an ant colony, mainly in an effort to kill it. I think we would be in trouble!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hursticon
Definitely a possibility, but not sure that the probabilities are very high.
One may think extra-terrestrial life is likely because there are so many stars out there. On the surface this seems reasonable, but when you look deeper into the issue, there are many conditions that need to met for life to get a good foothold, some of which include:
1. Star type (Giants or Supergiants are not good choices as they don't last long enough astronomically speaking for life on planets around them to develop)
2. Position of the star system relative to the host galaxy's centre (near the galactic arm for spiral galaxies are better since most galactic centres harbour supermassive black holes)
3. Planet type (planets with strong gravity stand a better chance as they can hold onto their atmospheres better)
4. Planet core type (the core type affects the existence and strength of the planet's magnetic field, which is vital for keeping out harmful radiation from the host star)
5. Presence of large neighbouring planets (this is helpful for "taking hits" from asteroids for the planet which life develops on)
6. Distance of the planet from the host star (too close = too hot, too far = too cold)
7. Presence of a moon for the host planet (this helps offset the side-effects of the gravitational pull of large neighbouring planets)
Not saying that life on a planet cannot develop without these characteristics, but it will be harder. Life can be quite hardy and survive in the most unlikely of places, so the attitude I take is "keep an open mind, but also look at the evidence".
I think so far there has been more than 200 extrasolar planets discovered, but all of them have been deemed to be most likely unsuitable for life.
And by the way... the presence of water does not mean there is life. :)
Regarding UFOs, from memory, when I did research on this, there were around 2% of all sightings in the world that could not be explained despite scrutiny and analysis by experts (astronomy, aerial phenomena, etc.). In number terms, that translates to over 10,000 sightings (conservative estimate).
UFO research authorities such as Jacques Vallee tend to think that this means there is something to the sightings than just "fluff" or mistaken identity.
Me, I've never seen a UFO before, and probably never will. But, I remain open to the possibility that UFOs are indeed evidence of other lifeforms (either extra-terrestrial or the inter-dimensional type). At the moment though, there isn't enough evidence to convince me there is.
I personally don't get too hung up on this ... doesn't affect really my life. :)
Don't forget that life is fairly fragile.
Look how many extinction events we have had on Earth alone.
These are things that can't be protected from.
Who knows how many alien civilizations were wiped out with a GRB or a Supernova.
Personally I think it is beyond question that life exists outside our solar system. Due to the sheer volume of stars (granted, not all of which hold a planetary system) there must be countless planets out there on which life could exist. It does not have to be (to quote some quasi-famous doctor dude) "life as we know it."
There could be organisms in the methane seas of Titan for all we know.
Of course in order to develop into a more complex species (like ourselves) the planet in question must be able to allow the development of a wide range of species; a food chain for want of a better description. Man couldn't survive on this planet if there were no animals and plants (even though we seem to be trying hard to disprove this by ridding the planet of these things!), much less have developed into what we are today. So I guess that makes the required conditions a little more unique.
Another aspect is whether you believe in faster than light travel. (With regard to contact rather than existence). No matter how advanced a species may be, if we can't travel FTL than visiting another intelligent species will just probably never happen. (Unless we're interstellar neighbours, which is possible, but still a logistical nightmare. We can't even get a single human to Mars much less to Alpha Proxima).
Of course many other intelligent species may have come and gone already. Lots can happen in 10billion years, and I don't reckon mankind will be lucky to last another couple of thousand.
And a final thought: Are we debating the possibility of intelligent life existing only within our galaxy? Cause there are more galaxies out there than there are stars in the Milky Way and Andromeda combined. Some of which make our little spiral look like quite insignificant.
Interesting thread.
But what if we are rare ants? or one of only a few ant colonies? I think they would be visiting us not to say Hi but to study us and keep an eye on our progress. What if we suddenly learn to fly lightyears like them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hursticon
I think ufos fall into 2 catagories
1. government/mililtary aircraft
2. aliens
I'd like there to be aliens, so long as they're not the Zerg OR the Flood.
The majority of life on Earth is unicellular micro-organisms... so odds are that the majority of life in the universe may be the same. The odds of finding complex life (i.e. multicellular organisms) is even more remote. Then the odds of finding intelligent life is more remote than that. But ya know, considering the vastness of space, I'd say it's definitely a possibility that life exists.
Regarding the ant colony analogy - this was discussed in the Transformers and Philosophy thread. Hence why the way the Decepticons view humans as nothing more than insects actually kinda makes sense. The Autobots' idea of defending humanity would be like humans trying to protect the lives of ants (and going through the expense of waging a war to do so).
Btw, we technically can't classify UFOs into any categories other than being UFOs or possibly sub-categories of UFO. Because by its very definition a UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object. Once it's identified as a military aircraft or alien spacecraft then it's no longer unidentified now is it! :rolleyes:
Actually, the vast majority of 'UFO' sightings is the planet Venus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Autocon
Other things I'd put above aliens: wildlife, commercial aircraft, shooting stars, satellites, drugs.
LOL - Mostly drugs IMO. :p:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Demonac
Personally,
I'm of the opinion that no human on Earth could possibly formulate an accurate opinion on what constitutes life or it's environment as even the most intelligent person on the planet really knows absolutely squat on a Universal level and therefore couldn't accurately fathom what another form of life could be comprised of or it's environment.
Unfortunately we humans are, at present, condemned to only understand that which is immediately around us and that which has come before - Even the most open of minds is limited by the overwhelming mass of closed minds that populates this planet as it is only something in the vicinity of 5% of the world's population that is actually doing any actual thinking, the other 85% just live off of what the others come up with.
@Autocon: They could indeed be studying us but I IMO doubt this because what could they possibly learn from us? - Just by visiting they will of displayed how vastly superior to us they are, so it would be more likely that they'd be visiting a zoo of sorts. ;)
@SkyWarp91: I hear that, or the Xenomorphs or Borg! :eek::p
@Klystron: Ah, Light's speed - That old chestnut :p, that is easily the biggest hurdle any life form would have to overcome and if it happens to result in anything like Event Horizon, count me out! :p:D
Have you seen or read Ghost In The Shell? I think you'd like it. It aired on SBS earlier this week. If you haven't seen it I recommend picking it up from a comic store or on DVD. :) I'd lend you my comic book, but it's in Japanese. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Hursticon
We haven't even fully explored our own planet, let alone space. e.g. the ocean depths still remain a mystery to us - it's not uncommon for people to discover new species. We know so little about species like the giant squid -- most of the specimens we've seen have been juveniles. Sightings of full grown adults have been rare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hursticon
The immense resources and cost required to even travel to Earth from the nearest galaxy would make occasional visits impractical unless they were able to profit from coming here (e.g. conquest, plundering resources etc.).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hursticon
Imagine if we discovered the existence of an intelligent but primitive alien species in Alpha Centauri -- say with the cognitive level of chimpanzees. Would we bother to spend zillions of dollars to send a mission to study these creatures if there were nothing to gain? If they had something we wanted, like say Unobtainium, then we'd colonise them. If they resisted, we'd happily displace them (or even annihilate them).
I think we as humans we need to re-evaluate what 'life' is. We think of life as appearing in carbon form but that doesn't mean life can evolve from some other base element.
Light speed. Apparantly it can't be done because it violates Einsteins theory of relativity. Nothing can or will move faster then the speed of light.
Black Holes are named because nothing can escape them even light. Yet Hawking Radiation does escape them. If light is the fastest speed in the universe and nothing can move faster then light then where does that leave Hawking Radiation? It moves fast enough to escape a Black Hole and yet Light can not.
I don't think that's how Hawking Radiation works.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordCyrusOmega
Oh yeah man, I've seen that stunning Anime and it's sequel a number of times and I thoroughly love them both. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Much like the scene with The Architect, both OVAs require a couple of sittings to fully digest the amount of philosophy and theory contained within them. :cool:
Great, great OVAs and I imagine the Manga would be even better.
(Damn my linguistic ineptitude! :p)
Indeed, I often wonder what things we'd discover if the sorts of money being thrown at outward exploration, were to be thrown at inward investigation. ;)Quote:
We haven't even fully explored our own planet, let alone space. e.g. the ocean depths still remain a mystery to us - it's not uncommon for people to discover new species. We know so little about species like the giant squid -- most of the specimens we've seen have been juveniles. Sightings of full grown adults have been rare.
I love hearing about new specie discoveries as I like the idea that there are still places, above water ;), that have yet to have a Human in or around it's presence for at least 1000 years. :eek:
I whole heartedly agree Goki, hence why I believe if we were ever to be visited we would most likely never live long enough to know about it. ;)Quote:
The immense resources and cost required to even travel to Earth from the nearest galaxy would make occasional visits impractical unless they were able to profit from coming here (e.g. conquest, plundering resources etc.).
(The zoo analogy is a rather optimistic view IMO :p)
Exactly dude, for our current culture - The only thing that would keep us going back is money or the prospect of it. :(Quote:
Imagine if we discovered the existence of an intelligent but primitive alien species in Alpha Centauri -- say with the cognitive level of chimpanzees. Would we bother to spend zillions of dollars to send a mission to study these creatures if there were nothing to gain? If they had something we wanted, like say Unobtainium, then we'd colonise them. If they resisted, we'd happily displace them (or even annihilate them).
We as a species, have an exceedingly long way to go.
have u watched: I Know What I Saw?Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonac
id like to know how accurate this dvd is, its very compelling;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hursticon
Excactly lol We're going on holidays! Going to visit the planet called Dirt with those fleshy humans!:p
Theoretically subatomic particles like tachyons might be able to move faster than the speed of light. That's the theory behind faster than light propulsion systems, like warp drives.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordCyrusOmega
All forms of electromagnetic radiation (including light) can travel at the speed of light (in a vacuum). That's why in the book Transformers and Philosophy (available now from all good book stores!) and as discussed in the discussion thread about this book, it's more logical that visitation from an alien species would be from a non-biological species; because biological species would be too frail to survive vast travel through space unless:Quote:
Originally Posted by LordCyrusOmega
+ They use suspended animation
+ They fold space (like in Macross/Robotech or Event Horizon) -- the Transwarp Drive technology used in Beast Wars appears to be use some kind of space fold (as we see a kind of 'wormhole' appear.
+ They use faster-than-light propulsion (e.g. warp drive, hyperdrive etc.)
But robotic forms of life like Transformers can easily survive vast travels through space because they're effectively immortal (Transformers, like elves, are long lived and only die if slain). Look at movieverse Megatron -- he flew under his own power from Cybertron to Earth in pursuit of the AllSpark!! :eek: As Transformers and Philosophy also points out, an even higher form of life than robotic life would be energy. Beings made from energy themselves - if they exhibited similar properties as electromagnetic radiation or even subatomic particles, move at or beyond the speed of light. The Vok are possibly an example of energy beings; they did say that they have no physical form (hence why they appeared to Optimus Primal in the form of Unicron's head and later made contact through their emissary Tigerhawk). Although Vok transmissions apparently still use some kind of space fold/wormhole thing. <shrug>
http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/e.../Tigerhawk.jpg
...oh, and Drift can also travel beyond the speed of light... just cos ya know... he's Drift. ;) :D
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...s/dorifuto.jpg "That's why I hate science fiction!"
I'll watch it later today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Autocon
I've watched the first part of the documentary, and I can't say I'm impressed.
Regarding the Phoenix Lights, did they bother to look up Mitch Stanley?
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1997-...-ufo-cover-up/
Here, they have an answer from someone who saw the lights with a telescope, yet they pretend he didn't exist.
How many astronomers (amateur & professional) are interviewed in this 'doco'?
The logic works for me. Of course i never did finish Leonard Susskind book "The black hole war". Got as far as The Holographic Principle and couldn't continue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonac
While Hawking Radiation can be used to describe entropy and black holes it still escapes them while light can not.
Depending upon which theory (or theories) you subscribe to will determine whether you think tachyons are likely to be too unstable to exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
And even if they did, they could probably only be used for the FTL transmission of information, which would lead to violations of the causality principle.
Google the "tachyon telephone paradox."
Nothing moves faster than the speed of light.