MIB and MISB, big difference?

Do you think there's a big difference between toys that are kept MIB (mint in box, so it means you have opened and played with it, but kept the toy and box in good condition) vs MISB/MOSC (mint in sealed box/mint on sealed card) in terms of value?

Like have there been any examples of toys that's values have dropped heaps because of the MIB/MISB difference?

I'm a MIB collector myself and though I don't see myself selling my TF anytime soon, I actually like to keep the boxes though it's space-costing

I don't think a toy that has been opened and played with can be described as mint. As such, I've always been wary of the term MIB when describing an opened toy.

To me, MIB is a toy that hasn't been opened or played with but the tape has come loose on the box.

But everyone has a different take.

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Originally Posted by Verno

I don't think a toy that has been opened and played with can be described as mint. As such, I've always been wary of the term MIB when describing an opened toy.

To me, MIB is a toy that hasn't been opened or played with but the tape has come loose on the box.

But everyone has a different take.

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I also consider MIB to be unsealed & untouched. Sometimes its required to see if anything inside is damaged/missing because with some boxed items you cant see the contents, but you dont want the value to drop by touching them.

Objectively speaking, MIB is Mint In Box - a toy that is in mint condition that is inside its box. The may or may not have been handled since packaging, but that's not a prerequisite of MIB. It's a descriptor of its condition, not its handling history. ;)

MISB = Mint In Sealed Box, so by its very nature of being sealed it would most likely never have been handled since packaging. The difference between MIB and MISB? Some bits of sticky tape. :p I guess MISB can fetch higher prices because it's kind of a guarantee that the toy hasn't been handled, whereas MIB doesn't necessarily imply that per se.

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Originally Posted by SkyWarp91

Do you think there's a big difference between toys that are kept MIB (mint in box, so it means you have opened and played with it, but kept the toy and box in good condition) vs MISB/MOSC (mint in sealed box/mint on sealed card) in terms of value?

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Yes. It's the same as the price difference between anything that is new vs used.

I personally would pay a premium to have that extra piece of sticky tape, but that's just me.

MIB and loose (with the exception of vintage stuff like G1) should have no price difference and are the same in my eyes (provided both figures are of equal condition).

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Originally Posted by Vector Prime

I personally would pay a premium to have that extra piece of sticky tape, but that's just me.

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Sticky tape rocks! :)

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Originally Posted by Vector Prime

MIB and loose (with the exception of vintage stuff like G1) should have no price difference and are the same in my eyes (provided both figures are of equal condition).

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I do agree however I think that things like instructions/tech specs/backing cards/etc are worth a few bucks extra when selling a loose figure.

There is a HUGE difference in the value between toys that are MIB vs MISB (with MISB obviously fetching higher prices on the second-hand market).

For example, a MIB G1 Optimus Prime should sell for approx. $400 whereas a MISB G1 Optimus Prime could sell for as high as $2000. I've seen this on many occasions.

It is for this reason AFA (back in the day) only dealt with MISB toys as they were considered 'premium' pieces and highly sought after by the serious collection e.g. people with money to burn.

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Originally Posted by Vector Prime

I personally would pay a premium to have that extra piece of sticky tape, but that's just me.

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lawl :)

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Originally Posted by Vector Prime

MIB and loose (with the exception of vintage stuff like G1) should have no price difference and are the same in my eyes (provided both figures are of equal condition).

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Okay, but it depends on the context of the MIB doesn't it? For example, if a toy has been opened, and someone took it out to inspect the condition of the toy, say to make sure there's no paint defects or missing parts etc, then puts it back in - but has never transformed it or played with it, then surely that toy is in Mint Condition. Imagine say if you bought a piece of jewellery or a collectable Swarovski crystal statue; they're displayed loose, and when you buy them they let you inspect it - and often staff members will handle it with gloves on, but you can touch it... then they pack it carefully in the box and sell it. Now before purchasing that item of jewellery or crystal, you have no idea how many times other people have asked to look at that piece, handled it, then decided not to buy it. But it's never been used before - the jewellery may have been briefly worn, but not extensively, and the crystal would never have been displayed outside of a store.

Or let's say you buy a brand new car... you're not the first one to drive it, unless you purchase it straight off the assembly line. Odds are a lot of people have already taken it for a test drive before you. But until that car is sold and leaves the car yard, it's still considered new; the moment you pay for it and drive it out, it's a used car.

So surely if a Transformer toy that has never really been used, but has been handled - and is still in the same condition as it was before it was taken out of packaging - then it is still in mint condition. The term "mint" was coined (sic) by money collectors because of course, coins are minted; and a coin that is still in the same condition as it was after minting is said to be in mint condition. Thus a toy that is still in the same condition as it was at manufacture is said to be in mint condition. If you haven't worn the toy out, damaged it, scratched it etc, then it's in mint condition. If you transform it reeeaaally carefully back and forth, it could still be in mint condition; this is up to the person inspecting the toy.

Remember that collectors also use the term Loose Mint (LM) and we have LMIB (Loose Mint In Box). So it is absolutely possible for a toy to be loose and mint. We also have a different term called NM (Near Mint) or even NMIB (Near Mint In Box); and that would be if the toy has some minor flaw that degrades it from being considered to be Mint.

As I said before, I guess a lot of collectors are willing to pay extra for a MISB toy because being sealed is like a "guarantee" that the toy is in Mint Condition. But I think it's mostly a psychological thing (maybe a male thing?) - we like to be the first to climb that mountain. ;)

And tbh, I have that mentality to some degree too. I like to be the first to open my toy. It's like a collector's privilege. For me, collecting toys MISB or MOSC isn't much of a problem, because I pretty much collect toys while they're current in stores. :) I like buying minty sealed toys, then enjoy the feeling of liberating them with my "Transformers Liberation Kit" (some of you have seen it - it's my little metal case with a box cutter and pair of tin snips ;)). When I buy a toy that's already been opened I'm like... oh... it's pre-liberated. Right. :p I don't mind buying loose toys, but I much prefer the feeling of buying new ones. :D

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Remember that collectors also use the term Loose Mint (LM) and we have LMIB (Loose Mint In Box). So it is absolutely possible for a toy to be loose and mint. We also have a different term called NM (Near Mint) or even NMIB (Near Mint In Box); and that would be if the toy has some minor flaw that degrades it from being considered to be Mint.

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It all comes down to the individual because there is no consistent and / or defined grading standard. I know quite a few valuers who would not grade loose as mint. The 'ultimate' definition of mint is 'uncirculated' e.g. straight from the manufacturer and never seen / touched a retail store shelf.

Too true. That's why they say that "C10" or perfect mint, is really something that exists in theory rather than reality. And yeah, it's all highly subjective.

But when I buy a toy, I don't think about the grading scale. I just look at it and if it's not broken or anything, then I'll buy it an open it. If there's a defect after that, I'll return it to the store for an exchange or refund (depending on how serious the defect is; these days with minor QC issues abounding everywhere I don't bother to bring everything back if there's a smudge here or there...)

MISB has a large difference to MIB. Personally I am not too fond of buying second hand toys, it's kind of an OCD cleanliness type thing for me.

Whenever I do buy a MIB/second hand toy I have to give it a wipe over. So, I would prefer MISB, but even then you risk the possibility of it missing a bit from the factory, which I had with a Revoltech I picked up. Luckily I managed to fix it myself, but unless you keep it MISB, that is a risk you can run I guess.

For example, I bought a MIB figma figure. The box and figure were both in excellent condition, however the figure reeked of cigarette smoke. I would not class that as MIB due to the smell, but from looking at the figure on the internets it looked fine and it no matter how many photos one looks at of it, it will always look MIB, but it certainly doesn't SMELL MIB.

So I ended up having another look around and found a MISB one, and it was a beautiful time for all (especially me). However, now it isn't MISB, but is is a closer MIB than the first one.:D

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Originally Posted by Tetsuwan Convoy

MISB has a large difference to MIB. Personally I am not too fond of buying second hand toys, it's kind of an OCD cleanliness type thing for me.

Whenever I do buy a MIB/second hand toy I have to give it a wipe over. So, I would prefer MISB, but even then you risk the possibility of it missing a bit from the factory, which I had with a Revoltech I picked up. Luckily I managed to fix it myself, but unless you keep it MISB, that is a risk you can run I guess.

For example, I bought a MIB figma figure. The box and figure were both in excellent condition, however the figure reeked of cigarette smoke. I would not class that as MIB due to the smell, but from looking at the figure on the internets it looked fine and it no matter how many photos one looks at of it, it will always look MIB, but it certainly doesn't SMELL MIB.

So I ended up having another look around and found a MISB one, and it was a beautiful time for all (especially me). However, now it isn't MISB, but is is a closer MIB than the first one.:D

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Who knew smoking on your toys could stain them with the smell (but then again I don't smoke near my toys, don't want the ashes falling onto them in the first place...)

One of the most daft things about MISB toys are ones with no window. I'd much rather have a MIB Grand Maximus and actually know I have a Grand Max in there than have a MISB one that could just be a box with random crap inside that some dodgy bloke has subtly sealed with stickytape.

I myself consider it a complete waste of time buying MISB G1 items or any older hard to get items as I know I'm going to de-value them when they reach me by playing open sesame:D. Seems like a complete waste of time buying a transforming toy just to leave it sealed in a box never to be transformed:confused:. whatever floats your boat I suppose:)

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Originally Posted by 1orion2many

I myself consider it a complete waste of time buying MISB G1 items or any older hard to get items as I know I'm going to de-value them when they reach me by playing open sesame:D. Seems like a complete waste of time buying a transforming toy just to leave it sealed in a box never to be transformed:confused:. whatever floats your boat I suppose:)

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Agreed. I don't care about MISB or MIB I want my toys & I want to do with them what I wish.

I understand that there are serious people who are willing to pay ridiculous money for MISB toys to never get played with. That is fine but for me it would be like saying I have insert Pamela Anderson in her prime but I have never touched her. I would prefer to have Pamela Anderson who is a little shopworn who I can at least have fun playing with ;)

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Originally Posted by SkyWarp91

Who knew smoking on your toys could stain them with the smell

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Smoking stinks up everything - so naturally your toys would stink of tobacco too if the smoke touches them. Smokers may not be aware of them since... well let's face facts, their sense of smell isn't as acute. You might want to ask a non-smoker if they can smell any tobacco scent on your toys. ;)

The worse thing about tobacco smell is that you can't see it. I've heard many stories from people who've seen photos of toys that look like they're in great condition, but when they get them they stink of ciggies, and the seller doesn't mention it because they think a smelly toy doesn't count as devaluing it. I once heard someone say, "If you bought something that smells like dog $#!+, would you say it was in mint condition?"

Apparently there's ways to get rid of the smell, like sticking in the fridge with an open box of bicarb soda for several hours or days. But what a hassle!

Again - you don't get this problem when you buy your toys sealed! And buying toys sealed is affordable when you buy them when they're current! :cool:

It's a bit hard to buy the toys when they are current if when G1 was out you were sitting in your mothers womb, this doesn't of course include me:D but we do have a lot of collectors which were to young to have got them new off the shelf and are now having to use the second hand market;):)

MISB/MOSC is clearly much different value wise than MIB.

I often joke about that sticky tape, but it makes all the difference. MISB means the toy has never been "used" or removed from the packaging and that is straight from the factory. Very significant factor. I see it like driving a car off the lot. As soon as its driven off, it loses so much % value based on that factor, just like tearing that piece of tape on the box.

The only downside of MISB is where one cannot examine what is in the box, especially the condition, and whether there are any qc issues..I can just imagine buying some of the current hasbro figures 10 years down the line misb..unless you are keeping it misb, that broken wreckgar? good luck.

My idea of mint is that the figure, regardless of its removal or how it was treated, comes to me in mint form (there are varying degrees, but that is the main point). That means the joints are tight, no marks or scratches that a misb toy would not have, no wear or discolour.

MIB, imo is higher value than a loose fig, but depends on the figure. I couldn't give 2 craps about the current packaging of Hasbro stuff, i.e. universe voyagers... box or no box.. I don't care too much. Takara boxes, I value. The condition of the box is also a significant factor.

As for G1, this issue is not debatable. Boxes/inserts themselves cost money. Hell, even sticker sheets and paperworks are highly valued. Fort Max's sticker sheet alone is worth a pretty penny- not to mention the box. I remember reading on HD's blog that for a certain figure, a good and mint box was more expensive than the figure itself. And all these with good reason. To me, G1 figures are not only toys, they are pieces of art, and are incomplete without the box/paperworks. The supply/demand of minty g1 boxes skewered towards scarcity, only emphasizes the value of MIB vs loose. (From experience, the average kid tends to rip the packaging apart to get to the toy.)

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

You might want to ask a non-smoker if they can smell any tobacco scent on your toys. ;)

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Wanna come over and sniff my toys :eek:

Note that some boxed toys don't have sticky tape - even when brand new. It's very rare, but happens sometimes. e.g. Shadow Striker and Roulette. Even though I got mine new mint in box, my Shadow Striker was missing her weapons because they must've fallen out because the box was never sealed. :(

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Originally Posted by 5FDP

Wanna come over and sniff my toys :eek:

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As long as I don't have to sniff your computer chair. ;)

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

As long as I don't have to sniff your computer chair. ;)

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THis is what 5FDP would do if he saw you sniffing his chair Gok

Don't worry SkyWarp91, it's a private joke that started at 1AZRAEL1's barbecue party. ;)

I know this thread is 6 months dead BUT reading through it I got interested in your "Transformers Liberation Kit" Goktimus. Are their any pictures of this kit you've made or tutorials on the best way to liberation toys from their packaging with as little packet damage as possible? I only ask because I've been MISB MOSCOW collecting and I'm thinking about opening some stuff up.

EDIT: I typed MOSC but my iPhone thinks collection MOSCOW is a better idea, especially if it's Mint In Sealed Box

My Transformers Liberation Kit is made up of:

+ x1 metal Transformers pencil box
+ x1 "Stanley knife" box cutter (although some other people prefer to use a hobby knife)
+ x1 tin snip/wire cutter
+ x1 pair of scissors
+ x1 band aid (just in case ;))

Opening Boxed toys
Use the box cutter to cut open sticky tape from whichever flap you want to open. With some box designs you may need cut several pieces of tape. Remove tray - you may need to cut more tape. This can be done with scissors if you want to avoid scratching the toy (depends on how close the tape is to the toy). Use the tin snips to cut any twist ties (a lot easier and faster than untying them!). Remove toy and accessories and enjoy! :D This same technique can be used with most recent carded Japanese Transformers as their bubbles aren't actually glued onto the backing card.

Opening Carded toys
Use box cutter or hobby knife (I prefer box cutters) to cut open the bubble. Do this by inserting the blade at the base of the bubble where it meets the card. Cut along the circumference of the bubble until it is completely cut off the card; remove bubble. Use tin snips/scissors to remove any twist ties/sticky tape. Remove toy from tray and enjoy! :D