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Of late, I've bought TF toys that were NOT as described.
- MiSB. Actual meaning: original tape has been breached with box resealed at both ends.
- 100% Complete. Actual meaning: some accessories missing or replaced incorrectly
Others are just ridiculous such as: MiSB but opened to check all items are complete. :rolleyes:
So I thought I'll start this thread to capture all the dodgy phrases used by Sellers to spruik their items.
The one that pisses me off most is people who call items MIB or MOC and it turns out that I wouldn't even consider them fit to be called junkers. The M stands for Mint, not Mutilated. :mad: Also, "99% complete" is stupid too.
That's the worst description that can be applied to any toy! 99% complete yet missing 1 of 2 accessories. Hmmmm :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Shadow
I've seen 99.9% complete then something like missing weapon or something. Not sure how the 99.9% calculation has been made in this case...
Another one I've seen from time to time has been something along the lines as "sealed but will open up to check once bought".
I also tend to search for a fair bit of older lego sets and the "complete as far as I am aware" does not fill me with too much confidence.
"See photos for condition"
However photos are 1, maybe 2 (if you're lucky) of the worst resolution pics imaginable taken by a blind man in the middle of the night. Seriously, you'd have to be blind to realise that that photo is THAT out of focus and they take them at what seems like midnight with only the full moon at lighting :rolleyes:
"The toy has been opened for inspection." What are you, Customs?
As someone who has sold off parts of my collection several times in the past, I have to say that it's often difficult as a seller to balance the need to sell an item with giving the right level of detail describing the item. For example, if I describe in detail the condition and damages to the item, that's helpful and informative for the hardcore collector who might still decide to buy it, especially if it's a rare G1 item or something like that. But on the other hand, seeing the item as "damaged" might just put off a more casual buyer, and at the end of the day, if both are paying the price, I don't really care who the buyer is. It almost goes without saying that there are more casual than truly hardcore people buying stuff out there. That's why I always make sure there are pictures that do show the condition of a toy I'm selling: for something in decent condition a couple of cell phone shots are all that should really be needed, but it is incumbent on the buyer to make sure they check those pictures. It's not my job as the person selling the product to provide people with reasons not to buy it.
That said, it's also important to be honest, and if there are parts missing, I will highlight it in clear language; the same with damage. Buyers can still be a pain though. I remember selling a BAF Marvel Legends Apocalypse once. The figure was missing one of the arm cables because the MIB ML figure with the BAF part was missing it, but that wasn't this buyer's problem. This guy wanted a refund because there were "scores and scratches all over the back of the figure". The only problem is, that's a paint effect: it's meant to look like that. I informed the buyer of this and he said he still wasn't happy. I said that was fine and I'd refund him as soon as he returned the item to me. Surprise, surprise, I never heard from him again. In that case, the item was exactly as described. ;)
"99% complete" means missing a Headmaster toy missing its headmaster, Optimus Prime without his trailer, or any other crucial part of the toy.
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Originally Posted by Sky Shadow
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Originally Posted by Skullcruncher
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Originally Posted by BruiseLee
To me, "99% complete" implies that someone actually calculated how many parts their figure has, compared to how many parts a figure is meant to have. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Bidoofdude
A Headmaster, Prime's trailer or any other crucial part would be worth a little more than 1%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bidoofdude
Although i dislike the term, 99% complete to me, would imply something like Prime missing one of the four missiles for his combat deck. You can still display it with two loaded, so it doesn't detract from the overall apppearance. His rifle, fists, Roller, gas pump, gas nozzle & hose are needed to display it completely, if that makes sense
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...ps61d1f3cb.jpg
Consumer rights FTW. :)
And another one that pops up now and again: "Needs a light dusting". If that's the case, why won't the Seller just do it before they sell the item. :rolleyes: And when it turns up, there's usually a lot more dust, which the pics don't show.
"good" condition - vague
"Loose" - out of box but good condition or loose/floppy joints
I don't mind that as being a toy you would have to have some expectation it was on a shelf or somewhere gathering dust. If its a box its easy for the seller to give it a wipe but some toys really need a good 10 minute clean - only using a compressed-air would get it super clean so unless the seller states its mint I would always have some expectation a clean would be in order.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megatran
This always signals to me that thee is something wrong with it and they have taken shitty photos to hide that fact. 99.9% of the time I don't bother to even follow it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent
That's what it should mean. but I don't want to know which figure they pulled to pieces to count all the parts, especially if it's a G1 toy. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus
Theres a guy on eBay that often lists items as 110% complete as it comes with more spare missiles than originally out of the pack. or a spare leg or something.
Awesome a spare leg, just in case.... but 110% complete when it just comes with all the paperwork, missile spure, sticker sheet etc is just as annoying - well to me. They were with the toy when it was produced!Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraMarginal
Reissues that are actually knock-offs *drops mic*
i collect trading crads aswell as tfs mostly NRL but some non sport here and there and you often see
"Super Mint"
or
"Straight from packet to top loader"
but when it arrives you can see dirty great big fingerprints on the cards or rounded corners.
and to me 99% complete G1 Transformers always meant no instructions or tech spec
MISB but with tape cut and box beaten up. Had this once, I mean COME ON
M is for MINT
S is for SEALED
B is for B@5!@#!
It's okay for the box to be beaten up, so that would have been accurate if it had actually been sealed. MIB/MISB refers to the mintness of the toy, not the box.Quote:
Originally Posted by llamatron
The 'good' description, along with excellent conition etc are always going to be vague depending on how you want to use them imo. I think loose is acceptable that one would believe it to be out of the box and if it were joints hopefully they's say loose joints.Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcomp
I always give any toys I buy a clean. Never know whose grubby mits have been on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullcruncher
I often wonder what the point of M of MISB is there for really. If it is in sealed box, which we assume means never opened, then the toys should be mint. Many figures come from the factory boxed and aren't mint. Add to that MISB, could mean a perfect toy in a sealed box, since there is no clarification of who or when the box was sealed a re-sealed box could well be a fair call.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Shadow
Perhaps we should start a motion to have MISB changed to Factory sealed/never opened?
That is a good point. SIMB? Sealed In Mint Box?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetsuwan Convoy
Some say that "true mint" (or a true "C10") is something that exists more in theory than in reality. Even if the toy has never been resealed (which may be more likely with MOSC figures), it's virtually guaranteed that the packaging will suffer minor imperfections just from being handled by factory workers, being packed into cases, shipping*, being shelved**, having price stickers attached***, being handled by prospective shoppers****, et al.
While toy grading is a highly subjective thing, it's nigh impossible to find a toy that's truly perfect mint or C10, because there's bound to be some micro-flaws in the toy, ranging from tiny imperfections in the packaging (e.g. nicks, scratches, dents etc. on the cardboard or plastic), or even manufacturing imperfections on the toy (e.g. tiny imperfection on paint apps, which seems to be occuring more frequently :p), etc. What most people would imagine as C10 would be more like C9 or C8 i.e. a few notches down from "perfection." Basically, C10 is "perfect mint"... and there's no such thing as absolute perfection (or at least, it's highly unlikely). ;)
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*The arduous journey from factory to warehouse to backroom
**Not every staff member is going to delicately remove toys from cases and ever-so-carefully place them on pegs and shelves. I've sometimes seen toys squeezed into shelves that are too short for the packaging with the card bent to force it to fit.
***Leaves glue residue even if you carefully remove it; some collectors try to remove it by carefully swabbing the residue w/ alcohol wipes. Some stores (like TRU) attach those those big security tags which dig into the packaging too.
****Or being bumped off by accident, or even maliciously thrown about by bratty kids. :p
How can a re-sealed box be referred to as MISB. :confused: Surely the general convention for MISB is factory sealed, never opened. I can imagine there be a lot of angry MISB collectors if a re-sealed box passes as MISB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetsuwan Convoy
Absolute perfection, Goki?
Apparently so. ;) An AFA 100 Wheeljack at the bottom of the page
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transf...-thread-5.html
I also once read somewhere a long time ago that the Japanese consider a sealed box that has been opened and resealed to be MiSB. Can anybody clarify?
"Excellent condition- Worn out chrome, loose joints, sticker wear"
I got a MISB Megatron TFC years ago off ebay. I finally gave in and opened it this year and while everything looked to be legit (factory tape, unused stickers.) I can't help but wonder if it was opened and resealed because it has a horrible QC error. There is a post inside his chest that is bent. Only way it could have been like that is if it was bent while the plastic was still warm from the moulding process. As I said, everything looked legit, but I'll never know for sure.:(
We assume that MISB is factory sealed, but nothing is there that actually says it has to be. If I buy a figure, open the box, don't touch the toy, retape the box, then going by the definition the toy is mint and is also in a sealed box. Unscrupulous people exist. Maybe a MIFSB (Mint In Factory Sealed Box) would avoid confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megatran
personally I add more info rather than just MIB/MISB whatever.
lol, AFA. Grading knockoffs and still going strong:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sinnertwin
I'd also be curious if there is a hard defintion of MISB documented somewhere.
You could use this same phrase for the new Generation Rhinox straight the box :D:D:D:D:D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by jazzcomp
"Rare" and every bloody variation of this tag descriptor; especially in which cases it appears in listing headings &/or descriptions, for items that are still presently available on-shelf at national retail chains! :mad::rolleyes:
Also... sticky tape isn't permanent. It does eventually wear out. In 1998 I got two Transmetal Optimus Primal, one to open and one which I've never opened... but the tape on my unopened one has since come off on its own. Does that count as still sealed? What happens if I re-tape it? As I said, I've never-ever opened this toy.
Then there's my unopened Car Robot Ox whose blister has half come off the card. Does that count as MOSC? Yeah, I'm just gonna open this toy all the way and be done with it. :p
What exactly do we define mint as? I think we should define it as "as it would come out of the factory, rather than in best condition. With this, QC issues in the factory would also count as mint.
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Aaargh! the words, they are all so vague!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bidoofdude
Dunno about you guys, but I'm enjoying this thread!
This thread is enough to give any MISB collector a heart attack :p
I've always considered MISB to mean that it's factory sealed, any factory defects are unknown. any box damage should be separately identified.
MIB means it's been opened, whether it's been taken out of the box or not isn't particularly relevant as it's no longer "case fresh"
MIB could mean that it's been out of the box, on display and transformed for an indeterminate amount of time, but it's back in the box with all parts and paperwork. Sticker application should be specified.
Loose, means no box, could be scratched or damaged, surface condition, joint condition, completeness of paperwork and accessories should be specified.
These are reasonable expectations, but I always ask if I'm not sure. or I just move on to the next listing if it looks intentionally vague.
Semantically speaking, so long as the toy has never been used (i.e. isn't second hand), then it's mint -- especially if it is still in its original and unused condition showing minimal sign of aging.
mint /mɪnt/
adjective
* being in its original, unused condition
* unused or appearing to be newly made and never used
origin
Middle English: minten Old English: myntan = to mind, to intend
The idea of the "C10" toy is one that is perfect mint. If you're going to look for the toy that's in absolutely flawlessly perfect condition, then you're unlikely to ever find it. I knew a Star Wars collector who wore gloves when handling his collection. Yeah.
Too many Star Wars collectors think their collection is priceless. Just look at rebelscum.com's Totally Ridiculous Auction feature. Always someone that wants $20,000 for a Phantom Menace collection.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime