A new Beast Wars Line

As Aaron Archer stated at BotCon this year, due to the suprising result of Dinobot being voted into the TF Hall Of Fame above the likes of Soundwave, Shockwave, Jazz and Grimlock, the concept of Beast Wars is worth a revisiting.

This both excites and concerns me.

Beast Wars was highly successful. From dubious beginnings, it flourished into a re-energising force for the entire franchise that no-one could really have seen coming.

But why was it so successful?

It was the TV show. And more importantly, the characters within it. The 3D animation was sweet, as were the story lines and over-arcing journey of the whole thing. This was a different type of Transformers show.

Even now when I (eventually) tell new people I meet who are around my age (24) they can recall the show with fond memories from when they were younger, and what is perhaps more amazing is that the bad guys are perhaps loved more than the good guys, which is an amazing turn of events.

And as everyone knows, I love the toys. But it is that connection to character that drives my liking of them. I only collected the 30 show incarnations to start with. Why would I want ones that weren't in the show? But after IDW put out the 1st Gathering issue, I raided my stock of non-show characters and more than doubled my collection in an instant.

So why should the thought of new BW toys raise concern in me?

Because the success came from those 25 minute toy commercials called episodes. And I very much doubt Hasbro would bankroll another show like it. So how could a fledgling line like this survive? On nostalgia and fans buying them? No way. A tie-in comic? Not likely. There wouldn't be the support for a fully blown Beast Wars line. How many figures are in a line these days? There were 40 released under BW in the 1st 2 years. None of them as stupid as a Night Watch Optimus Prime or Going To The Shops Bumblebee or some other unneccesary repaint, they were 40 seperate toys for the most part. Hasbro see that it just wouldn't be economically feasable to do release a specific line.

Whats more likely to happen in my opinion? Homage figures, tied into a filler line. We've seen it with Dinobot and Cheetor in the Universe line. Unlike the deluxe sized Optimus Primal and Megatron that came out with the 10th Anniversary, these toys were designed to be similar to their original selves, yet a new take on the notion, where as Optimus and Megatron were just Cybertron repaints waiting to happen, perhaps designed with that 1st in mind.

So we currently have another filler line with Generations. Figures that don't fit in with the Movie will be slung into the line to keep a healthy supply of Tfs on the shelves while the next movie is being made.

And I have no problem with a few Beast Wars homages being thrown in there too. And if you think about it, you're not likely to see Transmetals, Transmetal 2's or Fuzors getting a reworking, it would be the original models. Of which there were 14, 2 of which you could already consider to have been done.

The argument was much strong in my head last night as I was trying to get to sleep, I should have written down all the other thoughts I was having. Basically I'm concerned that the good name of Beast Wars would be tarnished with some half-assed, childish looking attempt at a new line. Animated meets Beast Wars. *Shudders* Give us some more in the style of Universe Cheetor and Dinobot and I think everyone will be happy to see BW back again.

I don't see your point really. The success and quality of a toyline needn't be dependent on the quality of the TV series - look at Energon and Cybertron.

Surely as a Beast Wars fan you'd rather have a mediocre television series and an entire toyline than two mediocre toys in a filler line, like we've already had?

Also, re the Megatron and Prime molds that got redecoed in Cybertron, during the design process there was still uncertainty surrounding the 10th Anniversary line so they made them compatible with Cybertron's key gimmick as well, just in case the worst case scenario came to pass.

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Originally Posted by SharkyMcShark

I don't see your point really. The success and quality of a toyline needn't be dependent on the quality of the TV series - look at Energon and Cybertron.

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Our opinions of 'success' must differ a lot :p

I don't think the BW line would have had the impact it did if the original show was mediocre, would you want the new generation of kids be subjected to a degraded version of BW television series? I know I wouldn't, If they do a new series and do it right then surely the popularity of the series would increase. Increased interest in a series normally means Hasbro will put more effort into (fingers crossed) a more diverse and better designed toy line.;)

But that could be said of any Transformers TV series, not just Beast Wars.

Personally I'd rather have a few decent homage figures than a revamped, probably substandard, BW TV series. Animated's demise was bad enough, to see the same thing happen with BW redux would be horrible, unless it was crap in which case I'd rather it just didn't happen.
And I totally agree, it does seem unlikely we'd get Transmetals, and very unlikely we'd get TM2s or Fuzors.

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Originally Posted by Ode to a Grasshopper

And I totally agree, it does seem unlikely we'd get Transmetals, and very unlikely we'd get TM2s or Fuzors.

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Which is a pity because one of my favourite figures was Transmetal 2 Dinobot!.

I feel that a show should not even be attempted because they'll never be able to recapture and write the magic they had at the time.

Personally, I think they should just continue to do Homage figures as they can invest more time and effort with individual figures than trying to do an entire line of figures.

Mind you, I wasn't really sold on the Cheetor and Dinobot figures released under Classics/Universe 2.0, they just seemed... I don't know... annorexic? - probably not the right word but they just didn't feel right to me.

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Originally Posted by Hursticon

Mind you, I wasn't really sold on the Cheetor and Dinobot figures released under Classics/Universe 2.0, they just seemed... I don't know... annorexic? - probably not the right word but they just didn't feel right to me.

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I personally don't own them and agree with you that they are little 'different'. But the cheetah actually looks like a cheetah, or more like a cheetah anyway, not some stocky housecat, though the bulk worked on the original Tigatron figure.

With the improvements of technology and design, if they gave new moulds a crack hopefully more of the robitics would be hidden and by the same token the robot modes would have less beast kibble.

I loved the universe BW figs, I'll happily take more of 'em! AND A WALRUS!

Not sure what Aaron was smoking, but we've already had 2 revisits of Beast Wars by Hasbro - the 10th Anniversary set of 6, and the Universe set of 2.

Both seemed to be succesful enough to warrant more, or at least had enough sales statistics for them to investigate it further.
Implying that it was a surprise to him that there was fan/consumer support for Beast Wars is a bit disappointing, because it suggests his interests lie with Gen1 (what he grew up with) and Armada onwards (what he designed) - leaving a big Beast Era gap that he seems to have no interest in. If he's one of the people deciding the direction of TFs, we will only have him focussing on the eras he cares about, and put a half-assed effort into the Beast Era, that he seems to have ignored, both during its release and 2 subsequent revisits.

If they ever did a new BW it would never be as good as the original show. No way could they ever match it. Best to leave it unless it could be as good as the original.

I would not call Generations a filler line. I think the filler line is Powercore combiners. Just where does all that fit in. Not movie, not Classic. Dont know what to do with them.

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Originally Posted by VERT

Dont know what to do with them.

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Leave them in the shops ;)

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Originally Posted by VERT

I would not call Generations a filler line. I think the filler line is Powercore combiners. Just where does all that fit in. Not movie, not Classic. Dont know what to do with them.

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stick em in a box at the back of the cupboard.........well thats what i did with mine

I agree with SharkyMcShark. Beast Wars succeeded as a toy line first, then succeeded as a TV show. Remember that the Transformers franchise was on its deathbed by the end of G2 in 1995. When Hasbro (Kenner) launched Beast Wars in 1996 it revitalised the TF franchise and impressive sales figures of the toys prompted HasKen to commission the production of an animated series from Mainframe.

Furthermore, the performance of a new Beast Wars or Beast Wars inspired series wouldn't affect the original Beast Wars. For example, the live action movie franchise is clearly inspired by G1 -- and some G1 fans don't like it. But it doesn't lessen G1 in their eyes. Now one might argue that this may be because movieverse is a different reality from G1 hence the two can be regarded separately; but look at Beast Machines. It occurs in the same overall continuity as G1, G2 and BW and was widely disliked by many fans, yet it doesn't mean that people who dislike BM therefore now dislike G1, G2 and BW. Many fans who don't like BM just disregard it. Likewise some fans disregard the live action films. If there is a new BW series and some fans don't like it, then they'll simply disregard it, but they won't start disliking the original franchise because of it.

Now the thing is... if they give us a new BW series, what will it be like? Will it simply be a rehash of the original characters in a new continuity, an entirely new continuity, or will they attempt to continue or add onto the existing BW/BM canon?

I really hope for the latter. One thing that a lot of fans might like is an alternate ending to Beast Wars -- i.e. pick up where Season 3 finished and ignore Beast Machines (much like how Superman Returns continued from Superman II but ignored Superman III and IV). Or possibly continue from Beast Machines and try to salvage the canonical nightmare that it left in its wake! That would be a bloody hard task (which is why nobody's really tried it -- ya know, aside from taking characters on off world adventures in Universe 1.0 :p) but if done well it might be cool. Maybe? :p

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

I really hope for the latter. One thing that a lot of fans might like is an alternate ending to Beast Wars -- i.e. pick up where Season 3 finished and ignore Beast Machines (much like how Superman Returns continued from Superman II but ignored Superman III and IV). Or possibly continue from Beast Machines and try to salvage the canonical nightmare that it left in its wake! That would be a bloody hard task (which is why nobody's really tried it -- ya know, aside from taking characters on off world adventures in Universe 1.0 :p) but if done well it might be cool. Maybe? :p

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I agree, except for the hard part.
"And then he woke up, and it was all just a bad dream.":p

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Originally Posted by Verno

Animated meets Beast Wars. *Shudders*

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Shudders of joy, that is! :p

I disagree with you Gok, I had no interest in the Beast Wars toys until I saw the show. I honestly didn't even think they were Transformers until I saw the show to confirm it:o. The sales may have only been impressive compared to the G2 sales but I don't think they would have been hard to beat. I think they saw an interest in the toys and decided the best form of advertising was using a series based on the BW figures to drive sales.

i remember being in primary school and seeing beast wars stacked on top of ech other fuzors tigatron everything piled high lol i didnt know what it was all about. The show wasnt on tv at the time. when i wachted the show it got me interested. :p and thus empty wallet ensured for years

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Originally Posted by Autocon

i remember being in primary school and seeing beast wars stacked on top of ech other fuzors tigatron everything piled high

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What country were you in? We didn't get Tigatron here.

He might be referring to the Transmetal Tigerhawk, which could be reguarded as a fuzor (in both form and by plot-wise).

But the real question is, would a beast wars type thing actually be liked by anyone right now? I see no need for it. The line is strong as it is. Right now is not the time for the beasts. People are still right into robots and vehicles, and it's being kept fresh enough to not get bored with.

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Originally Posted by Verno

Going To The Shops Bumblebee

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:)

Scarily, there's so many different "xxx" Bumblebees, this one might well eventuate.

I agree that if BW is revisited, it'll be a half-done revisit, and not one which will capture the character depth that made BW such a success.

I'm really glad Mr Archer realized the potential of Beast Wars. It was the TF series I started out with.

I'm not sure how they'd tackle a revisit, but a homage line like some have already mentioned would be nice. It would be nice if they handled the Generations line like how they handled their Star Wars Legacy Collection line, with each wave corresponding to a specific iteration of the franchise. Wave 1 could be G1, wave 2, Beast Era, Wave 3, Animated and so forth. That way we won't have a full-blown, but still serviceable attempt at paying respects to the Beast warriors.

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Originally Posted by Sky Shadow

What country were you in? We didn't get Tigatron here.

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no? might of been someone else

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Originally Posted by 1orion2many

I disagree with you Gok, I had no interest in the Beast Wars toys until I saw the show. I honestly didn't even think they were Transformers until I saw the show to confirm it:o.

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Okay, but that's your personal anecdote. Some people say that they were first introduced to Transformers (G1) from the cartoon despite the fact that it was already a very strong toy franchise before the 'toon came out (and obviously became much stronger after the cartoon aired).

I remember collecting and playing with BW toys before the cartoon came out - I used to play according to the original toy canon (i.e. the Maximals and Predacons were the Autobots and Decepticons bio-engineered with beast modes!). Then the cartoon came out and made everything way better! :D

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Originally Posted by 1orion2many

The sales may have only been impressive compared to the G2 sales but I don't think they would have been hard to beat. I think they saw an interest in the toys and decided the best form of advertising was using a series based on the BW figures to drive sales.

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There were several magazine articles released at the time and in following years that indicated that BW sales were really strong and it was the impressive sales figures that prompted Hasbro to commission the cartoon. It was like G1 repeating itself -- the G1 toys made lots of money (US$1.4 million) when it debuted, and as with G1 the popularity of BW exploded after the cartoon came out. Now I'm not saying that Beast Wars would've made the same amount of money when it debuted, I don't know what the exact amount was, but apparently it was pretty strong - strong enough for Hasbro to invest in an expensive CGI animated cartoon.

Ben Yee's site used to have an article explaining more about this (erm, this was when he was still hosting on his university's server then acweb... don't think he's had it on his site since becoming "BWTF"). I have an old ToyFare Magazine interview with Hasbro about Beast Wars from 1997 or 98 - if you want I can quote some excerpts from that. :) (obviously I gotta dig it up from my archives at home ;))

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

I have an old ToyFare Magazine interview with Hasbro about Beast Wars from 1997 or 98 - if you want I can quote some excerpts from that. :) (obviously I gotta dig it up from my archives at home ;))

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If you can post the article I'd be interested in seeing it.:)

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Originally Posted by Sharky McShark

Surely as a Beast Wars fan you'd rather have a mediocre television series and an entire toyline than two mediocre toys in a filler line, like we've already had?

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No way. I got my mediocre TV series in Beast Machines, and the associated toy line I've never had time for. The proposed solution to all the problems BM caused, TransTech, was sadly robbed from us because the show and toys from BM had killed off fans liking of the characters and story arc in the Beast Universe.

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Originally Posted by MV75

But the real question is, would a beast wars type thing actually be liked by anyone right now? I see no need for it. The line is strong as it is. Right now is not the time for the beasts. People are still right into robots and vehicles, and it's being kept fresh enough to not get bored with.

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Thus why we don't need to see a full line. Just a few figures slotted in, no need to go overboard. Based on the popularity of those particular figures, and fans outcries which Hasbro have shown to listen to occasionally, then in the future maybe a larger presence, but that is a long way down the track. We have to wade through the sh!t that TF3 is going to pour onto the market first.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Okay, but that's your personal anecdote. Some people say that they were first introduced to Transformers (G1) from the cartoon despite the fact that it was already a very strong toy franchise before the 'toon came out (and obviously became much stronger after the cartoon aired).

I remember collecting and playing with BW toys before the cartoon came out - I used to play according to the original toy canon (i.e. the Maximals and Predacons were the Autobots and Decepticons bio-engineered with beast modes!). Then the cartoon came out and made everything way better! :D

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And thats simply your personal anecdote. From the reponses on here, most have cited the TV show as the reason for the interest in the line. One can draw the analogy that they were new to Transformers as a whole, myself included in that. I'd had a few Tfs as a young kid but knew none of the story until BW came along and it sparked a further interest in the universe.

Okay, I found the article. I'm not going to retype the whole thing cos it's like four pages long and not all of it is relevant to our current discussion, but here are some excerpts.

"Hasbro.....was hot on the trail of redesigning and relaunching a Transformers line. After a failed attempt with a Transformers Generation 2 line, Hasbro realized that a more radical revamp of the Transformers was in order."

"Thus, Hasbro unveiled Beast Wars figures in 1996, while the team members involved in the relaunch held their breath.
The crowd, as they say, went wild.....by and large, kid and collector response to Beast Wars has been tremendous. According to Hasbro, Beast Wars is the third best-selling toy line in the (United States), right behind Star Wars and Power Rangers."

""Beast Wars has definitely reinvigorated fan interest in the Transformers line as a whole," Hasbro's Beast Wars Design Manager George Boznos says. "While matching the success of the first line of Transformers, the [dynamic] looks and features of the Beasts have sparked new interest with kids of all ages."

"It's a move that Boznos feels allowed the (Transformers) line to come back kicking from the verge of extinction."

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Having said all that, I don't think it's necessary to scrap current vehicular Transformers and replace them with beast Transformers... but why not have both co-existing side by side? We're now in an age where there are multiple different lines of Transformers being produced at the same time (e.g. "Classics," movieverse, Animated etc.)

I think it should be possible to sell beast TFs as a separate sub-line. Perhaps just a small launch at first to test the waters and then consider expansion depending on sales.