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Right at the point where Wheel-Bot is going to talk about Fallen, a missile is fired, destroying him. This would be the introduction of Starscream, mercilessly killing one of his own to stop him from spilling the beans.
I came up with that in 10 seconds, and was paid nothing...where is the justice in this world? :P
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It's in the Sector 7 series which tells the story of Sector 7's origins beginning in 1898. By 1944 the Nazis had captured a Non-Biological Entity and reverse engineered it to create their own piloted transformable machines like the Panzer-Giganten. Agent Walter Simmons (Seymour's father) and Jetfire managed to thwart the Nazi's plan to exploit Cybertronian technology (this would be one of Jetfire's first heroic acts as a former Decepticon).Originally Posted by BlackConvoy
I was more referring to the bi-plane, model-t photos Simmons had in his files. Sector 7 only referred to MBE-1, seemed surprised to see other robots around the place. I don't seem to remember any nazis in the movies, maybe I missed something
Yeah but an object that relatively small may not be visible to the naked eye from Lunar orbit, and as far as we know, none of the Transformers have even been to Earth's moon, let alone observed it up close from its orbit. As far as we've seen they haven't been anywhere else in the Solar System other than Mars and Earth.
Yeah but The Fallen is a character that was known to many Transformer fans, because he first appeared in "Transformers The War Within: The Dark Ages." The Fallen is also a Multiversal Singularity, meaning that he exists in every Transformers universe, just like Primus and Unicron. The Fallen's original name was Megatronus Prime -- one of the original 13 Transformers created by Primus (and in the movie universe, apparently 7 of those original 13 were Primes). After Megatronus Prime was corrupted by Unicron and became evil, then he became known as The Fallen.
IMO ROTF The Fallen wasn't as cool as the original The Fallen. The original The Fallen looks better too IMO.
G1 The Fallen
Movieverse The Fallen
Yeah, I gotta agree with this.Classic example.... Arcee
Transformers is always better when they're made as toys first, then as cartoons/comics/movies second -- based on the toys. Things can often get screwy when it's the other way around. Although HasTak did think about making a G1 Arcee toy... she was gonna be a repaint of Chromedome ostensibly with a different Headmaster head (most likely Daniel Witwicky). I don't know if we should be glad that it never happened.
No, I'd want a proper Transformers action figure. Not some non-transforming doll. Non-transforming Transformer toys = teh suck.
Of course the problem is that Hasbro probably just blindly approved Reedman and Alice without thinking about how they could be feasibly engineered into toys. (-_-) The thing that really sucks about Alice is that she has no alt mode kibble in robot mode. Yeah I know from a scifi POV it makes sense, but having alt mode kibble is what makes Transformers look like Transformers. Hasbro themselves acknowledged this which is why for most of the other Transformers (which we got toys of) they ensured that the robot modes did have noticeable alt mode kibble on them.
I can't believe Hasbro approved ROTF Megatron as an alien tank. I'm so glad that DOTM Megatron is gonna be an Earth vehicle.
I think Bumblebee's actions are defensible but Prime's aren't. When Prime executed Demolishor he was already defeated and incapacitated. Prime should have demanded Demolishor to surrender and had him captured. If his wounds were fatal, then at least show some regret in him committing a mercy kill. Because that's what happened at the end of the first movie when Megatron was killed, Prime said, "I'm sorry brother, you left me no choice." It shows that Prime regretted the fact that Megatron had to die.
Now Bumblebee on the other hand disarmed (sic) Skipjack, uh, Rampage, and killed Ravage (although Ravage was later rebuilt by the Initiative) in the middle of combat. If a soldier is attacked by two enemy soldiers, it's not unreasonable for that soldier to engage with lethal force. The big difference between Bumblebee and Prime is that Bumblebee incapacitates/kills his enemies when he's fighting them. Skippage and Ravage were both trying to kill Bumblebee at the time he defeated them. They were not already defeated and helpless at the time.
So there's a world of difference between what Bumblebee did to Ravage and what Prime did to Demolishor. Prime's killed other Decepticons too - like Bonecrusher and Grindor, but we don't complain about those because Prime killed them while he was fighting them. Bonecrusher, Grindor and Ravage were NOT executed in a helpless state - they died as a result of direct combat.
Even just within the movie universe it's a contradiction. As I said, TF1 Prime showed compassion -- he only killed Bonecrusher as he was fighting him (i.e. it was NOT an execution), and he expressed regret that Megatron died at the end. Prime's attitude in Shanghai flies against what we saw in Mission City. Is it the same Optimus Prime?Guys, guys, guys....This isn't your daddy's Transformers. It's a different interpretation of the Transformers universe including changes to certain characters personalities (look at Jetfire ferchrisakes!), so if you can't handle that then I suggest going home and crying to mumma.
Yes but at the time Demolishor was executed he was fully incapable of causing any more harm. Thus at that time there was no need to kill him. And if he was beyond repair, this should have been pointed out to the audience because otherwise it does look like an execution. Prime didn't even ask Ratchet to scan him or something, or even bend over and have a close inspection... *sigh*
Instead of saying, "Any last words?" he could have said, "I'm truly sorry for this." -- some kind of expression of regret. Without that then it does feel cold fluided.
Yeah but you'd expect Optimus Prime to rise above petty feelings for revenge and act PROFESSIONAL.
For example say there's a guy who walks into a building and shoots innocent people, then the police arrive. Unless he's immediately threatening a life they're not going to get police snipers to take him down. First they're going to ask him to surrender. And if he DOES surrender, or say a cop shoots him in the leg and incapacitates him, would you expect the police to walk up to him and say, "Any last words?" before shooting him in the head at point blank range? Or would you expect the police to arrest him? If the police chose to shoot him, what do you think would happen to that officer?
Soldiers get into massive trouble if they abuse POWs in any way (e.g. humiliation, torture etc.). And the execution of POWs is considered barbaric.
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The movie audience for a summer blockbuster based on an 80s toyline can not be expected to know about obscure comic books or multiversal singularities; what happens on screen is all that counts. Having said that...
It is interesting that the movie novelisation just has Demolisher saying his final words after Prime's attack with no comment or kill shot from Prime. In the comic adaptation Furman has Prime say "I wish there was another way" as he delivers a fatal blow. Both seem more 'right' and suggest the adaptors weren't fans of that scene or the script was rewritten at a late stage.
Rank 9 - Board Staff
Great guys... you got him started. Everyone get comfy! Listen, and understand... The Gutsmanator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until Bay is dead.
I've told you this a million times, but will say it again... you, sir, are a genius!
QFT!
Thank God for that! I would be embarrassed showing ROTF to a Newbie as the only representation of everything I love about Transformers.
Rank 8 - Deluxe Member
I've interpretted the scene differently to yourself. Rather than simply being incapacitated, I see a Decepticon in a great deal of pain, beyond repair and close to death. The only thing Prime could do was to 'put him out of his misery' so to speak. He knew this and that's ultimately why he introduced Demolishor to his little friend. Perhaps he could have said something a bit better than 'Any last words?' but this is a war and sadly not everything happens the way it should. I actually think it makes Prime a bit more interesting and less predictable than usual. *shrugs*
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Well said,Guys, guys, guys....This isn't your daddy's Transformers. It's a different interpretation of the Transformers universe including changes to certain characters personalities (look at Jetfire ferchrisakes!), so if you can't handle that then I suggest going home and crying to mumma.
I don't actually believe Prime was being unbotmane anyway. He basically had to totally **** Demolishor up before he would stop killing you, your family and your little pet Catilla too. What was he meant to do with the fubar, no doubt beyond repair Demolishor once he was finally stopped? "Oh come on guys, he's 10 times our height and weighs the same as a small country but come on, let's muck together and carry him home where we can start on the repairs!" *cue BB shooting himself in the face*
Yes, the execution itself may have seemed a bit psycho at the time but Prime's all about saving humanity and just witnessed hundreds of human lives go down the proverbial. Can you blame him for being a bit pissed?
It's true ROTF sucked Devastator's very large balls, but I will defend the right for Prime or any other Autobot to kill Decepticons, even in a execution style manner. The Decepticons in the movieverse are unlike anything we have ever seen, they are far more sadistic and brutal then any other universe I know, they won't think twice about gutting a Autobot for the fun of it.
Perhaps the movie comics probably demonstrate this better than the actual movies themselves I guess: Demolisher slaughtered entire Autobot settlements on Cybertron, besides probably killing a load of people in China, he got what was coming to him, perhaps that factored in to Prime's decision to kill him?
Megatron is commiting mass genocide on his own people, the Autobots are on the verge of extinction. This is a war, at some point you gotta pick up a gun and start shooting, stop being a victim and start being a soldier.
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Unlike everybody else here, I have no problems with Optimus Prime executing Demolishor or Sideswipe slicing Sideways in half. Hey, they Decepticons are invading my planet, and the theme song says "The Autobots wage their battle to destroy the evil forces of the Decepticons."
I actually thought the inclusion of the walking stick landing gear was one of the more imaginative and "characterful" aspects of his design, and that it made him one of the few movie designs that where it emphasised his characterisation, rather than just a cool-looking robot.
Beast Wars Megatron, the best Megatron, would like a word with youPlus a Megatron without Welker isn't a Megatron at all.
and that Fallen joke(Not referring to you specifically) People like to complain that these movies have little to do with Transformers and don't refer to enough Transformery things. The inclusion of the Fallen, even though that was handled poorly (there were some significant changes from earlier drafts of the script which weakened the Fallen's relationship with Megatron among other things), was a pretty huge in-reference to hardcore fans.
We saw the rail gun on screen. It was far away and fired. Attackers do not need always need be on screen with their victims, especially with longer-range weapons. That would be bad cinematography.
Check out the science behind rail guns. They hurt very, very much, even to Transformers, who are only invincible to human weapons if you use cartoon or All Hail Megatron story logic.
http://www.tfwiki.net, the Transformers Wiki - Serious intellectual discussion about transforming space robots.
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Wrong forum? These movies not being epic cinema masterpieces isn't exactly news.
I'm really just here for the free food and open bar.
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Discussion topics before the release of the movie are best in this section in case it contains spoilers.
It's not the killing that is upsetting people (because they are at war). It's the way it was done by certain Autobots.Unlike everybody else here, I have no problems with Optimus Prime executing Demolishor or Sideswipe slicing Sideways in half. Hey, they Decepticons are invading my planet, and the theme song says "The Autobots wage their battle to destroy the evil forces of the Decepticons."
Rank 8 - Deluxe Member
My issue was that it's a massive cop out, lets have the biggest con ever, that would make an awesome fight! But instead they snuffed him with an with a pew pew cannon. It was BORING.
Surely no one enjoyed seeing a cannon (regardless of location) kill devastator. It's the new definition of anti-climax.
*after sex*
Honey, you thought that was an anti-climax? You should see how they killed Devastator!
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