Bay's final word on Jazz in TF2? (SPOILERS)

[springah]

Still lame - jet was useless. Galvatron style gun would of been cooler.

imo.

[GoktimusPrime]

Galvatron's gun mode, even at full size (Galvatron gun mode was sometimes shrunken down so small it could fit inside Cyclonus' cockpit, other times there was no shrinkage at all), had limited flight capacity - i.e.: it could hover in the air and fire, but it didn't have actual flight combat ability and thus lacked any aerial superiority. It also doesn't look so good because it still looks like a hand gun! And Galvatron's more familiar cannon mode is strictly ground-based.

I think something like Straxus' flying cannon mode would've been the best - it offered the best of both worlds in terms of being a huge cannon and essentially a jet. Animated Megatron's pre-Earth mode is also a flying cannon in the same vein as Straxus.



Although a flying cannon mode would've been a lot cooler than a jet mode, it doesn't make movie Megatron's jet mode necessarily "lame" and certainly not useless. Notice how each time Megatron transformed into jet mode, he always did something really impressive with it, e.g.:
+ Punching out of his 'prison' under Hoover Dam (just try and stop him!)
+ Fighting Optimus Prime in mid-air (slamming through buildings!)

[Robzy]

Gok, I'm not gonna argue this anymore (by now I'm sure you know I prefer G1 Megatron because we've had this discussion plenty of times ).

Apart from you (and your friends) I never heard anyone laughing at Meg's alt mode. In fact, when I was a kid every one at school loved the gun mode (I remember someone actually brought one to my primary school). It was ULTRA COOL! But now (as adults) TF fans seem to think it's dumb... I think we're over-analysing it a bit... something we, as kids, didn't do back then - although maybe you did, I'm not sure.

Now flash forward to 2007 - the movie comes out. Okay, Megs is no longer a gun... he's a crapjet! Shouldn't it be an improvement on his G1 alt mode? For argument's sake, let's say I accept the alien jet mode in order to get Megatron to earth (since they got rid of the Ark and the Nemesis ), okay - so he's an alien jet when he arrives, but why not have him reformat in to an earth mode. This is still "robots in disguise" isn't it? I mean, Prime and the Autobots didn't stay as comets. I know you're going to say "But wait - Megatron is the most fearsome creature in the universe - why would he hide behind an earth disguise?!"... the answer is, because he's a TRANSFORMER! He's not Darth Vader or the Predator. He's a robot who turns in to a vehicle/object. This battle takes place on earth - it makes sense that he would have "earth camouflage"!

Bumblebee had 2 alt modes in the film, why couldn't Megatron (Cybertron mode and earth mode)?

[griffin]

Megatron fears no one and nothing. Why would he reformat into a disguiseable form if he has already obtained the most powerful, fastest form already (the interplanetary jet mode). He doesn't need to hide, nor would he want to. Any other mode, even based on something human related, would cost him his advantage of the most powerful mode on Cybertron.
Even Gen1 Megatron didn't choose to be a gun, the Ark did it to him while he was offline. Given the choice, I doubt he would have picked it as an alt mode by choice. He would have gone for the biggest most powerful military weapon possible.

It's nothing against the Gen1 gun mode, just an objective comparisson of whether the most powerful Decepticon would want to be a human hand gun or an interplanetary jet fighter.

[springah]

Ya, i agree with Robzy.

Jet is just boring. A ground gun thing like Galvatron is still my pick as elite alt mode for Megs. Who says he needs to fly? :P

And yeah, everyone forgets Megatron is a Transformer too.. so the whole race takes alt modes, but Megatron is "better" than that? Pfft.

Oh oh, also, they can re-scan whenever they want. If I were Megs I'd keep upgrading forever!

[springah]

That is along the lines of what i was thinking ,
"also" They could change the name of jazz, to more like a rapster (sp?) feel to it.

Rapster?

[Robzy]

Megatron fears no one and nothing. Why would he reformat into a disguiseable form if he has already obtained the most powerful, fastest form already (the interplanetary jet mode). He doesn't need to hide, nor would he want to. Any other mode, even based on something human related, would cost him his advantage of the most powerful mode on Cybertron.

I think it would have been nice to see an earth alt mode of some description!

There's a perception that Megatron is the most powerful being in the known universe... yet that didn't exist in G1 (at least not in the cartoon). He wanted to be the most powerful, but wasn't! That's why Prime could beat him. That's why Starscream questioned his leadership. He was beaten by the Dinobots, the triple changers, and the Combaticons. But if Movie Megatron is so damn powerful - why does he need an army? As he states in the film "You've failed me yet again Starscream". Why would this God-like giant want to waste his time with substandard soldiers if he can just do everything himself? Note - servants are different from an army! G1 Megatron needed an army of "loyal" followers - a fact that is epitomised by his "need" for someone to fire him in gun mode.

Personally, I don't think Movie Megatron is so 'mighty' and 'all-powerful' anyway. Firstly, he was beaten by earth's frigid climate. Then when he was revived, he lasted 20 minutes before being killed by a tiny human...

Maybe he should have hidden - from Sam anyway!

[springah]

Yeah, I'm with Rob.

Megatron always said he was indestructible, but I never believed him...

[Gutsman Heavy]

Megatron jumps right into battle after the thawing. Why would he need an earth alt mode? the need to hide had long passed.

I'm not a fan of the jet visually and conceptually, but it would have been quite unnessisary for him to get an earth alt.

[GoktimusPrime]

I agree that Megatron's alt mode is a poor "robot in disguise" - but as griffin and Gutsman Heavy have pointed out, there was no compelling reason for him to have a disguise. The other Transformers spent the rest of the movie in "infiltration" mode - gathering intelligence to find the AllSpark. When Megatron was thawed, the location of the AllSpark was known, they just had to chase it! The IDW comics describe both the Autobots and Decepticons operating in phases - most of which require both sides to remain hidden from the sentient populace of a world - but once the fecal excrement hits the fans, then they move to whatever phase it is (very high level of alert) where they no longer care about remaining in disguise.

Apart from you (and your friends) I never heard anyone laughing at Meg's alt mode. In fact, when I was a kid every one at school loved the gun mode (I remember someone actually brought one to my primary school). It was ULTRA COOL! But now (as adults) TF fans seem to think it's dumb... I think we're over-analysing it a bit... something we, as kids, didn't do back then - although maybe you did, I'm not sure.

Look at it from a non-Transformers fan (i.e.: general movie going audience) POV. You see an effing giant 11 metre robot magically shrink into a hand held 53cm pistol that needs someone else to operate is something that requires an incredible amount of suspension of disbelief from an audience.

For the movie to financially succeed, it needed to appeal to a general audience. Transformers The Movie appealed directly to Transformer fans, and while it's become a pop cult classic, it flopped badly at the box office. The live action movie on the other hand was successful, and part of that reason was because non-Transfan audience members could relate to it.

I can appreciate the fact that you prefer Megatron's original gun form, but this concept would be really difficult to work for a non-fan general audience.

Jet is just boring. A ground gun thing like Galvatron is still my pick as elite alt mode for Megs. Who says he needs to fly? :P

Kinda hard to travel across the stars as a ground-based cannon, don'tcha think? Also, aerial superiority is teh pwnz0rz. A column of tanks would get smashed by a squad of jets unless they had specific anti-air artillery and/or their own air support - think of the ending of Saving Private Ryan where the German tanks get thumped at the end by Allied planes.

And yeah, everyone forgets Megatron is a Transformer too.. so the whole race takes alt modes, but Megatron is "better" than that? Pfft.

He has an alt mode, he just doesn't need a disguise mode.

Oh oh, also, they can re-scan whenever they want. If I were Megs I'd keep upgrading forever!

Please don't let Hasbro hear you say that!

But if Movie Megatron is so damn powerful - why does he need an army?

Because he wants to create an inter-galactic empire. For this he needs a bloody big army - not just to conquer, but to continue occupation. He may be powerful, but he can't be everywhere at once.

As he states in the film "You've failed me yet again Starscream". Why would this God-like giant want to waste his time with substandard soldiers if he can just do everything himself? Note - servants are different from an army!

Starscream isn't substandard - he blew the legs off Bumblebee, gave the other Autobots a hard time and beat the snot out of the U.S. Air Force. Starscream may be treacherous (and in the movie we're not shown how aware Megatron is of Starscream's true nature - Starscream does act loyal to Megatron) but he's by no means a substandard warrior. He did lead the Decepticons for the duration of the movie until Megatron's thawing.

G1 Megatron needed an army of "loyal" followers - a fact that is epitomised by his "need" for someone to fire him in gun mode.

Having loyal followers is useful for having someone to fire him, but the fact that he even needs someone to operate his alt mode does make it inherently limiting. For example in "Transport To Oblivion" Megatron had no loyal followers around to use him to fire the Exponential Generator into space so he had to elicit the aid of Optimus Prime - his sworn enemy - to fire him! Prime naturally agreed to it out of mutual survival... but it shows how limited his alt mode is. If he were up against enemy forces and needed to transform, but there were no loyal followers around to help him... he'd be effed.

Personally, I don't think Movie Megatron is so 'mighty' and 'all-powerful' anyway. Firstly, he was beaten by earth's frigid climate.

It's no sign of weakness to be pwned by the Ice Age considering that it pwned an entire planet!

Then when he was revived, he lasted 20 minutes before being killed by a tiny human...

...who happened to be holding the AllSpark. It would've killed Prime too if he'd shoved it into Prime's chest as he'd told him to.

Maybe he should have hidden - from Sam anyway!

Yeah, but Megatron clearly underestimated the human - Sam beat him using his brains rather than brawn... or huffer.