Movie Critics Thread

[GoktimusPrime]

Read The Dark Knight Returns. As with this movie, it shows Batman to use gadgets and tricks to incapacitate Supes.

Yeah, but Batman can only activate his gadgets if he can physically move. By placing him in a restraining hold, it would make it impossible for Batman to move at all, thus rendering it impossible for him to use any of his gadgetry and tricks and allowing Superman to negotiate a truce with him without anyone getting hurt. And it doesn't have to be an arm bar, just any kind of restraining hold or grappling technique. And we know that Superman is at least capable of placing someone in a headlock.

[1AZRAEL1]

Doesn't mean he doesn't have voice activated gadgetry 😉

[drifand]

That's what I keep saying to people. The bad thing about going back in time to change things is that things get changed.

Rewriting the written and just milking us. No explanation on Arnold terminator to keep the suspense

[GoktimusPrime]

Doesn't mean he doesn't have voice activated gadgetry 😉

True, or gadgets that can be activated in the palm of his hand like Spiderman's web shooters. But I think that it still would've made more sense to at least see Superman try a more immediate and peaceful resolution first before resorting to a violent punch up.

[UltimateGalvatron]

True, or gadgets that can be activated in the palm of his hand like Spiderman's web shooters. But I think that it still would've made more sense to at least see Superman try a more immediate and peaceful resolution first before resorting to a violent punch up.

True.

[shockNwave]

I saw Suicide Squad (and it's great to pay $10 for a ticket) on Saturday and what an amazing movie because it's from the bad guys perspective with a good amount of time at the start to flesh out the character backgrounds especially for:
Harley Quinn who is outstanding just like in the trailers.
Dead Shot who is solid in the leadership role.

Apart from that, Batman just makes a cameo in the back stories for the above characters. While Jared Leto as the Joker is average at best which is understandable because it's hard to follow in the footsteps of legends like Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger. The two main villains in this movie are quite impressive due to their sheer power and no the Joker's not one of them.
Overall I'm not going to compare this movie to Captain America: Civil War because this one is a dark and grubby affair compared to Civil War's clean cut, straight edge look and feel.

[griffin]

True, or gadgets that can be activated in the palm of his hand like Spiderman's web shooters. But I think that it still would've made more sense to at least see Superman try a more immediate and peaceful resolution first before resorting to a violent punch up.

It's called a plot device... it wouldn't have the title of "Batman Vs Superman" if there wasn't an actual, somewhat balanced (remotely plausible), fight between them.

I think the movie should have just had "Dawn of Justice" as it's main title, as the "BvS" title was really just for early marketing hype, because it wasn't the main plot element (which was really Lex Vs Batman & Superman).
The entire movie was about the manipulation of Batman & Superman by Lex, from years of searching out supers, and learning the secret identities of Batman and Superman (to bring them together and have them both get the worst impression of the other to hope one will eliminate the other for him).
As such, having them fight each other, without it being just a quick neutralisation of Batman with Superman's super speed and strength, gives the Movie's title meaning... even it it wasn't too plausible in this version of them confronting each other.

[GoktimusPrime]

Here's how the Honest Trailer sums up Lex's plan.



The plot device could've been handled better to make the fight more believable. Such as having Superman placing Batman in a hold, then we see a close up of Batman's hand where he hits a switch that activates some gadget that gets Superman off him. Like maybe having a Krytonite ring that has a lead cap which can pop open. The proximity to the Kryptonite would weaken Superman and make him loosen his grip, and also make the rest of the fight really easy for Batman.

And as much as Dawn of Justice may have it's flaws, it's still a MUCH better movie than any of the Transformers sequels. Because part of my brain can't believe how unsubtle the "seeding" for the Justice League movie was, with the Flash doing the time jump, Lex's database on the other Supers complete with video clips of each of them... I prefer the more subtle nods that the Marvel movies had. But then again, I'd much rather see screen time looking at the Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg over the unforgivably embarrassing "Romeo & Juliet" scene from Age of Extinction. That's would have to be one of the lowest points in all Transformers lore (I hope that Bay doesn't surpass this in The Last Knight).

P.S.: Arguably one of the best fight moves in Dawn of Justice was not between Batman vs Superman, but between Batman and Luthor's thugs when he went to rescue Martha Kent. Here we see Batman fighting as a real fighter should, dropping each opponent as quickly as possible and with as few moves as possible. This includes the use of grappling in combination with striking, throwing etc., and a lot of these moves can actually be found in historically traditional martial arts. Although his super-bullet proof suit allows him to get in such close quarters with gunmen (which would otherwise never happen IRL) Some of the more impressive techniques we see in this scene include:

* Grappling with this guy and making him shoot at the other baddies


* Using his grappling gun to grapple and draw in an opponent from long distance. He then punches the guy as he's reeled in, using the combined forces to amplify the impact of his punch. This is actually used in many martial arts, one of which being Praying Mantis.


* Taking out this knife attacker; Batman immediate steps into the attacker's centre/core, driving his right shoulder up into the attacker's armpit. With the attacker's body locked and Batman now poised to use his attacker's core as a fulcrum, he then proceeds to throw the attacker onto the ground (IRL you wouldn't pick him up, it's just a direct drop to the ground). Again, this is commonly seen in many different martial arts, just one of which being Tai Chi.


* Fighting against multiple opponents who have surrounded him. This method is reminiscent of techniques dating back to Medieval times, including those used and refined during the Crusades. One such style that employs a similar looking technique would be Long Fist Notice how he keeps alternating between fighting forwards and backwards, as he is practising moves for fighting two opponents who have surrounded him on either side


* Grappling one opponent (and you can hear bones being broken) while kicking out the leg of another attacker.


* Similar as above, only that the grappled opponent has a knife, and Batman proceeds to use the attacker's grappled arm to drive his knife into his own leg. Again, I've seen similar techniques taught in real life martial arts (usually driving the knife into the attacker's body as it's often faster and easier than trying to drive it into the leg; depends on the angle of the knife).


* Grabbing an attacker's throat and then driving him into the ground, then pounding him with punches. I've actually done this IRL in a sparring match, although the drop was much gentler than this and I didn't proceed with the punches. My opponent was actually a black belt in Taekwondo who had just returned from overseas after winning international tournaments; he was incessantly boasting about it over lunch with mutual friends and he agreed to a friendly fight afterwards. It ended with my hand wrapped around his throat and his back on the ground.


* Grappling this gunman before taking him down and breaking his arm.


* Headlock, similar to what Superman used on Zod in Man of Steel. This is a very common technique used across many fighting styles, including the modern military.

[CBratron]

I still think instead of awkwardly watching the Justice League clips during the feature and killing the pace, Bats should've handed WW the mem card in a post-credits scene and all the clips on it could be viewed either online from an official site/YouTube channel or as Blu-ray/DVD extras.

I'd be interested in watching a David Ayers cut of Suicide Squad to see what the film was before WB got the railer editors to reshoot and re-edit it into the current ADHD incarnation.

[GoktimusPrime]

Having the clips scene in the post credits alone would've been sufficient. The scene itself isn't that long. And apparently the Ultimate Edition includes additional scenes that help to improve the story (so I've heard, I haven't seen it) -- so I wonder if some of these scenes would've been better left in the original cut of the movie with superfluous Justice League foreshadowing scenes left for mid or post credits. It's also a really good gimmick to make audience sit down and read the credits!

I wonder if it was Snyder's decision to axe certain scenes in favour of the JL stuff or if it was a studio directive. It's also worth mentioning that I think that a lot of the fight and stunt work from Gal Gadot was also really good. And apparently she did most of her own stunts, unlike Cavill who heavily relied on a stunt double (not that there's anything wrong with that; stunt doubles are people who need work too ). For those who may not know, Gadot actually did military service in the IDF, so she actually has a military skill set (including training in the Israeli martial art of Krav Maga) which she brings to more physically demanding roles like Wonder Woman. Although Gadot has stated that her Krav Maga training was very limited, we can still see some fundamental martial arts basics in the way she moves compared to her co-stars, such as in scenes like this where we can see Gadot adopting what appears to be a relatively more realistic fighting stance as she is more side-on to her attacker (Doomsday) whereas Superman and Batman are standing front on and exposed. The side-on position also grants her greater stability. Should Doomsday charge at them at super-speed, Wonder Woman would be in a better position to absorb that incoming force by simply straightening her back leg to assume something similar to a Forward/Bow Stance (re: physics of a triangle); her comrades would more easily toppled over.

One could argue that Superman's super-strength negates the need to adopt a more defensive posture, but Wonder Woman is also super-powered but still adopts a warrior's stance. As a human mortal, it would absolutely make sense for Batman to adopt a more defensive position. Even though his suit is super-durable (being completely resistant to bullets); it probably wouldn't withstand a front on attack from a mutated Kryptonian.