Martial arts discussion thread

[GoktimusPrime]

From here:

What about baseball bats? Thats what i have incase i ever get into a road rage incident. (them being the aggressors of course)

The law only allows you to use reasonable force in self defence. So unless the aggressor is carrying something that can be used as a weapon, you're not allowed to use that bat. e.g. If a person comes up to in a threatening manner, but they appear unarmed, you're not justified to use your bat -- if you do, either your attacker or the police can charge you for assault, even though you didn't start the fight.

Even if the other person presented a weapon (e.g. a tyre iron) and you use your baseball bat in defence, the police might ask you why you had a baseball bat in your car. Some martial artists recommend that the best 'weapon' to carry around are everyday objects that would seem reasonable to carry around regularly. A cricket bat or a baseball bat is an odd thing to carry around unless you're going to/from training... a better object may be a golf umbrella.

I keep a golf umbrella in my car -- not to use a potential weapon, but just in case it rains! And even if it's a blazing hot sunny day, we know that the weather forecast isn't always right. I actually have one umbrella in my car and one at work (because unless it's raining when I get to work, I usually don't take my umbrella out of the car, so I have a spare umbrella next to my desk in case it rains after I've left my car and I'm at work (cos it's a fair hike from my desk to the car park -- all uncovered outdoors).

[UltraMarginal]

I want to know why it's always :"baseball bats"
why not cricket bats, or golf clubs or something else?

I play baseball and love the game, as such I actually often carry two bats in my car, but it saddens me that the baseball bat is considered a "weapon of choice" it's not even something that's that readily available in Australia. not like cricket bats are.

[GoktimusPrime]

Speaking purely from a technical POV and not meaning to advocate carrying anything with the intention of using it as a weapon, I think a baseball bat may be more easier to handle as a weapon due to it's relative more symmetrical shape compared to a cricket bat or a golf club. Not having a "head" on it like a golf club would also be more advantageous, as a club would get caught on stuff. This is why hook swords are bloody hard weapons to use - because while it can hook and ensnare, it can potentially get caught/trapped by the opponent. Swords with hooked handles/hilts are generally used by mounted soldiers/cavalry... there are some hook swords used by ground infantry but they're quite rare/obscure -- and it is because they're so damn hard to use efficiently! For most people it's a lot easier to use a smooth and symmetrical shaped weapon, which is why most melee weapons (swords, polearms, clubs, spears etc.) are shaped that way. There are exceptions, usually if the weapon has a specialist use (like a hooked cavalry blade). Oh, and I imagine that a baseball bat might have a more even weight distribution compared to an "end heavy" cricket bat or golf club (just my guess - I don't go around wielding these pieces of sport equipment around so I don't really know first hand )

[GoktimusPrime]

This comes from a conversation I've been having with another member in PM, but I think it may be better to continue it here. It started off just talking about Tai Chi in general.

Do you know the historical background as to why it's such a slow form? I've always wondered about that.

There are pros and cons to practising forms quickly and slowly. The advantage of practising it slowly is that you do get more of a "burn" moving slowly. I usually wear strap-on wrist and ankle weights when I practice my Tai Chi forms so when I'm slowly moving out into a posture, punch, kick etc. I can feel my muscles "burning" from moving out and holding in that position. If I move quickly I don't get as much of a muscular workout because I'm relying on momentum to carry me through. Even without any weights on, you'd be surprised at how much sweat and how out of breath you can get doing a slow Tai Chi form.

The advantage of doing a form quickly like in many other martial arts is that you get more of a fast aerobic work out -- and again, you can still practice rapid forms with weights on too.

From a self-defence POV the advantage of doing forms slowly is that you do actually learn more. It's actually harder to do forms slowly than it is to do it quickly. Imagine say executing a forward kick - some guys who only ever practise it at full speed are actually quite sloppy and their stance and movement is all over the place. They have poor balance and weight distribution... and they're completely oblivious to it because they're moving so quickly that they don't slow down to check if they're doing anything wrong.

With forms like Tai Chi, because you're moving so slowly any mistake you make becomes magnified and more bleedingly obvious... and Tai Chi teachers will nitpick your technique ruthlessly that is otherwise harder to detect when moving rapidly. Until I started doing Tai Chi I never knew that something as "simple" as stepping into a Riding Horse Stance could be so darn complicated!! Before then I thought you just step out into the stance -- feet/legs parallel, knees bent, back straight etc.; but Tai Chi showed me that I was barely even scratching the tip of the iceberg. There's all manners of very subtle body rotations and weight shifts/distributions as you move into the stance that allows you to step into a more solid Riding Horse Stance.

It's often said in martial arts that a person should be standing in his stance, not on it. i.e. you should feel that you're "rooted" or "anchored" into the ground (yet remain nimble and agile -- two seeming polar opposites working in harmony, the very concept of Yin and Yang).

While training slowly certainly has its benefits -- I've seen other external martial artists do it too (e.g. I've seen some Karate teachers get their students to practise their kata at very slow speeds - some Okinawan Karate schools will get them to hold weights while they're doing it too) -- there are disadvantages too. The most obvious is that nobody fights in slow motion. You don't learn to hone your reflexes and timing etc. if you're always moving slowly. Tai Chi has fantastic sticking and trapping techniques, but if you never practise it against someone who's trying to fire a rapid succession of punches and kicks etc. at you, then it's gonna be bloody hard to execute these techniques IRL.

Another disadvantage is that internal practitioners get too "soft". A lot of us just lack any sense of 'animal ferocity' (or what modern sports science calls plyometrics -- "explosive" movement). That's the entire reason why some martial arts (e.g. Shaolin Kung Fu etc.) name themselves after fierce animals -- to give the practitioners a visual cue on how they should be moving. Many Tai Chi practitioners are great at absorbing the energy of an attack... when they're already in contact and doing push hands. Even if you speed up they can match your speed... but how did you get into that position in the first place? Most of the time when people practice Tai Chi apps, they just polite stick their arms together and start fighting... but that's unrealistic. In reality someone may have tried to punch or grab you or something -- and that arm's moving in really fast, and you have to react in time to intercept and stick to that arm, and then you can do your Tai Chi Push Hands technique... but without making that initial contact, the technique is pretty much worthless.

I sometimes get frustrated when I hear internal and external martial artists complain about each other. Internal martial artists complain about the external stylists being too hard and aggressive, external martial artists complain about the internal guys being too soft and passive... and yeah, there's some truth to it -- some external artists are too hard, and some internal artists are too soft... but IMO neither of those people are doing their arts properly.

I don't care what style someone does, but a good fighter ought to be moving with a balance of being hard and soft. Yin AND Yang (not Yin or Yang) -- if you think of the Yin Yang symbol it's the _two_ opposites working in harmony with each other. And the two dots mean that at the most extreme ends of each one, there is an element of the other. e.g. when your body is the most hard and most aggressive, you should have some softness and passivity - and likewise when you are at your softest point, you should also be strong.

Some people use the analogy of being like water. Water is soft and hard... anyone who's ever belly-flopped into a swimming pool will know this! Look at the devastating effect that the Queensland flood and Japan Tsunami had... something as "soft" as water was able to wash away cars, boats, buildings etc. -- and water can even erode something as hard as rock. How awesome was that scene from Fellowship of the Ring where Arwen summons the water to attack the Nazghul? A humble piece of cloth may seem weak, but anyone who's ever been to a school swimming carnival in this country will know how painful it is getting whipped by a wet towel!

So it's often said that martial artists should try to be like water... soft, supple, elegant and flowing, but also relentless, pounding and unstoppably devastating like a juggernaut. Too often I see people try to be hard and strong and others who try to be soft and supple... but we should be all of those things.

[Bartrim]

I want to know why it's always :"baseball bats"
why not cricket bats, or golf clubs or something else?

I play baseball and love the game, as such I actually often carry two bats in my car, but it saddens me that the baseball bat is considered a "weapon of choice" it's not even something that's that readily available in Australia. not like cricket bats are.

I think it's just an Americanised term adapted by Australians.

I got my sparring gear today

[GoktimusPrime]

I got my sparring gear today

Heh... I just had an image of you driving home from training, then some guy trying to start a road rage fight with you - running at you with a baseball bat and screaming, then you lobbing your freshly used groin guard in his face.

That'll learns 'em!

[GoktimusPrime]

Mugger gets pwned by his victim who turned out to be a martial arts practitioner

[Bartrim]

Got my purple beat on Saturday. Moving up the rankings

[5FDP]

Got my purple beat on Saturday. Moving up the rankings

Congrats mate... seriously though... 'a' is nowhere near 'l' on the keyboard

[Bartrim]

Congrats mate... seriously though... 'a' is nowhere near 'l' on the keyboard

Oops using an iPhone so either My fingers were too fat or I am the victim of autocorrect.