Need Help

[kup]

They were loose. I was only after a decent Buzzsaw and I saw the seller had others as well.
As for identifying them I saw straight away they were KOs when I opened the package. I have plenty of real ones to compare them with so it was easy to spot. The problem is proving it to paypal through a third party.

Take photos of the original and KOs side by side and point out the discrepancies.

[Burn]

Great. I figured this sort of stuff would happen. Now that Hasbro's cracked down on the KO's we'll no doubt see more loose KO's being passed off as the genuine item.

Just bombard Paypal with the evidence you have here, and maybe check out other forums. I know Seibertron.com has a thread dedicated to identifying KO's (though it's not really organised) so other places might have something similar.

[griffin]

Echoing Burn, I guessed as well that dealers stuck with KOs, would try to offload the stock loose, with the claim of them being genuine. It is harder to pick them as being KOs in ebay photos that way. This was why I was totally against the sale and promotion of KOs from the very beginning, because once they are loose, they will circulate themselves as genuine ones on the secondary market.

[Pulse]

If you were trying to flog off KO cassettes, it wouldn't be that hard to "age them".

I mean, leave 'em under a bright light for a while & scratch 'em here and there... Take a dodgy Ebay photo & who's gonna know the difference

I'm sorry to hear about your cassettes Gamblor, I hope they didn't cost you too much...

[Fungal Infection]

You might find it hard to get a claim on the Ratbat since the buyer hasn't actively called it a genuine item in his auction nor has he called it a KO. I should know cause I got a KO Ratbat last year with a similar description and after making a complaint, he told me not to assume it was a genuine item and that I should have asked beforehand (the auction made no mention of whether it was KO or genuine, just that it was a complete G1 Ratbat). So I accepted it but I'm more weary to ask questions before bidding. But you have perfect grounds on the other 2 since he does state they are vintage items in the title.

[Soundwarp]

What is the definition of Vintage though......

Man this sux!

[dirge]

Fungal: It doesn't matter whether the seller states it's a genuine item or not. Selling items that violate copyright is against eBay's rules, regardless.

[griffin]

I agree. If the seller used the word 'Transformers' in the listing at all, then it has to be a legit toy. They can't claim that you shouldn't assume it is genuine, because they used the 'genuine' brand name on that product. If it was a KO, they can't list it as 'Transformers' or use the name as if it was the real thing. Using that brand name in their listing is all the proof you need of them listing an illegal product (if it turns out to be a KO).

[Robzy]

I totally agree! But I've got a quick question...

I know ignorance is not a defence, but some sellers might say they really didn't know there was a difference. The question is, if they use "Transformers" in the listing, then it has to be a "legit" Transformer, right? But, just putting KOs aside for one minute... how many GoBots or Machine Men do we see listed as "Original Transformers"... surely that's misidentifying those items too, isn't it?

Now, Machine Men aren't KOs, but they're certainly not Transformers either! Yet both MM and KOs are often listed as genuine TFs!

[GoktimusPrime]

A KO Transformer falls under what eBay classifies as a "counterfeit item" which is strictly forbidden under eBay policy.