Combiner Wars wave 1 toys official images

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

Very well said indeed, Griff, and thanks for the info -- I was unaware of the change in target demographics. That point leaves me a little confused, however.

The way I kind of see it, with the main bread and butter being the simpler toys, Hasbro can make a higher profit off of them as they are simpler to design and make. So they therefore can make more money off of them as although the RRP might be a little cheaper, they cost less in design time/resources.

While the movies have an M rating, that kind of adds a bit of edge to the movie. If the movie were rated PG, it would be less appealing to the older movie goers. The M rating doesn't stop younger viewers going to it, and makes the film seem more 'edgy' (? ) to everyone else. In a way, the name alone of the movies gives a bit of oomph to the toy side of things.

I think the appeal of Generations line for collectors and pre-teen is admitting that pre-teen to teens to collectors will want something a bit more complex than the bright coloured simple toys. While the Combiner wars hasn't got much in the way of media support to get the advertising out there, a cool looking robot that transforms into a cool vehicle and THEN combines to make a big robot is enough to nab the eye of an errant kid that is not interested in buying a one step changer.

The generations line is essentially trying to be two things. It is trying to tickle our G1 Nostalgia, as well as provide younger kids with a bunch of cool toys.

Sure they might not know who Superion is, but back in the days of G1 Superion and the Aerialbots were new characters as well. When I was a kid, I bought Transformers because they looked cool and were fun to play with, not because of nostalgia. Hopefully the Generations can provide us with nostalgia, as well as giving young-uns newly discovered characters that are cool.

[xlojnr]

marketing toys to kids does not rely so heavily on having related media.

My 2 (almost 3) year old nephew is getting into transformers. How? Youtube clips - my own enthusiasm for the series, and that's about it. Somehow his primary school aged cousins knew about the series as well (not sure how exposed they are to the new animated series) even though none of them have seen the movies.

Even though my 2 yo nephew was only really exposed to old g1 clips on youtube; kids will be kids and which toys does he want? All of them. He sees the movie versions of the toys and wants them. He doesn't have a connection to the movie characters, he just calls them "evil optimus" or "evil grimlock" (because the jagged edges give them a more sinister appearance in his eyes). Obviously these characters don't even exist in the existing TF media, but he doesn't care.

Pretty much any toy that will transform, he wants. His mum will buy cheaper, easier toys. Which is the point that Griff was bringing up. His grandfather splurges on the kid... only 2 year old I know who owns legends jetfire (has to ask an adult to transform it between modes). He, and kids like him, are a toy company's bread and butter because they don't care what it looks like, he just wants it all - and he has adults who will either spoil him, buy him gifts, and/or see a $15 toy and think, meh it's just $15.

[Verno]

I think the point I was trying to make with the '13 year-old in 2007' scenario is that fans grow up, not down, and so the generation of new TF fans that have been brought into the fandom by things like the recent Movies and TF: Prime are now older and wiser than when they started.

But I guess Hasbro's shift in focus was pretty plain to see with the announcement of the newest TV show -- RID. It's a follow-up to TF: Prime, but it appears to have a much lighter, child-friendly tone from what I've seen (which admittedly is only the trailer).

TF: Prime dealt with some pretty heavy stuff for a weekly children's cartoon, and I'm proud to say that that was a tradition started nearly 19 years ago in Beast Wars. My question is then: Where do the now teenage TF fans get their fix? The three demographics Griff outlined don't cover teenagers at all. If they jump on board with the Generations toys, they're faced with names and characters they've perhaps never heard before, and while xlojnr attests that marketing doesn't have to rely on related media, I can speak from experience that when I was a young man of 11 when Beast Wars was on TV, I only wanted the toys that were on the show.

I realise this thread is in the News section and not a place for discussion per se, but I am finding everyone's thoughts very interesting, so thank you for humouring me.

[xlojnr]

It would be interesting to see how big the sale demographic of teens would be for the toys.

I was talking more in relation to pre-teen children. Which would fit with the child-friendly transformers tv series being released, and the stated simplifying of the toys (because parents want their kids to be able to transform the toys themselves).

So as to your question of "where do the teenage fans get their fix?"; Maybe they can't, and it's just a gap due to market viability?

complex toys such as the masterpiece range will sell because they are appealing to the nostalgia of older g1 viewers/collectors, would teens really feel that much nostalgia for things that they have only recently grown out of? Would complex toys targeted at teens sell?

And generations toys will sell due to the appeal to the older toy owners who had these toys as kids - and children now who just like playing with any toy (with no current related media). Do a lot of teens nowadays play with physical toys anymore? In my experience teens move onto gaming consoles and other hobbies.

In my opinion, I don't see the majority of teenagers as being collectors, or users of toys - and therefore would not represent a demographic that toy companies would want to target.

*edit* should state that this was just my opinion based on my experiences. i haven't really met that many teenage collectors; and so my assumption is that there aren't that many out there - coupled with my experience of teenagers having less/no disposable income and/or other purchasing priorities, leads me to believe that the teenage market may have been ignored because it could be small in size.

[griffin]

With the issue of age-groups and simplifying toys (after a period of improved engineering and sculpting), there's probably graphs somewhere at Hasbro that show that as the age goes up, sales to each year-group go down as more and more kids/adults stop collecting, so is best to cash in as much as possible on the younger demographics that don't need anything more than simple cheap toys.
And as such, less demand means less toys for the older age-groups.
This is probably why they now split their focus on three age-groups, so that they can make a massive amount of cheap/simple toys that will then help fund the higher cost of producing the more expensive limited-edition collector toys on the other end of the spectrum.
And in the middle is the "pre-teen" (10-14) range, that relies on recycling (or homaging) the characters those older collectors are familiar with, who are also likely to buy some or most of them as well (but the priority for Hasbro is the bigger middle demographic, so budgets and quality reflect that).


Something else to keep in mind that is putting pressure on the design budgets is that physical toys are being squeezed for electronic devices, games and apps... plus the resources to manufacture them (plastic from oil) will keep getting expensive, so cheaper toys offsetting these issues, means simpler toys and/or lots of redecos.

Then throw in the change of strategy with Transformers movies to be more in line with other movies that have toys. This year Hasbro appeared to adopt the "movie merchandise" model for TF4 by having a short & fast line of less regular-release toys and moulds.
Most movies that have toys are treated as like any other non-toy merchandise, in that they are only intended to be in stores for a short time and with a small range, because the "Brand" is only being promoted while the movie is in theatres and then on DVD. Transformers as a Brand is normally able to sell itself even without a cartoon or movie, but for TF4, the product line was designated to start just before the Movie (May) with the last new products scheduled for October release to cover the release of the DVD is released in most countries (but some items were delayed). That's a big wind-back for a Transformers movie line, as each previous one lasted at least 12-18 months. This one was barely 6 months of release, which is more like the standard model for other movie toylines we see in stores (which then shelf-warm for a year or two).


I fear that long-term (probably within 5 years), the Transformers brand will continue to expand their range of short-lived, simple gimmick lines (like Construct-Bots, Hero Mashers, Battle Masters, Angry Birds) outside of multi-year cartoons... but hopefully they will still be able to have enough demand from retailers and non-adult collectors to keep producing the occasional Masterpiece and Generations-styled homage toys.

[Bidoofdude]

I am currently a teenager (15) and I was mainly fed on the G1 cartoon, so I have just as much nostalgia as any adult fan, but most my age would have watched Energon/Cybertron. The Masterpiece toys aren't all that difficult for me and I'm sure even the least competent would be able to transform them and enjoy them, if they're a fan of that stuff.

For most preteens (around 12, 13 years old), it suddenly becomes uncool to like anything really that isn't 'grown up'. It starts to wear off around 14, from my experience. Then everyone's on the train.

[griffin]

Just to respond to specific things not included above.

From what you've said, it means Hasbro is chasing a relatively young audience as its main bread and butter

Yep, their parents and relatives buy more than the older age groups, and more of the "cheaper" products that are cheaper to buy and have bigger profit margins for being cheaper to make.

but if my memory is correct, all four of the Michael Bay Transformers films have had a rating of M here in Australia (not recommended for children under 15) and PG-13 in the US, yet that seemingly isn't Hasbro's target market for the toys?

As someone else noted, the movie isn't made for the kids whom most of the toys are bought for... while the toys are mostly being bought by adults (for their kids and kids of friends and relatives), because they are more familiar to those characters than the other Transformers toys on the pegs that are actually more for the kids.
It was also noted that sometimes movies are made to meet a rating to improve its potential box-office takings... as the 1986 Transformers Movie had things intentionally added to push it up into PG from G, just to improve its chances.

The problem with the current movies though is that Bay had so much power after the first one, that it wouldn't have mattered what Hasbro wanted its rating to be, Bay had final Executive say on everything.

You also said that (and I'm assuming you're citing Hasbro on this) "Generations toys were for both Collectors and pre-teen kids", but I find that hard to believe given the comparatively obscure media (comics) featuring the characters. Perhaps with the upcoming Combiner Wars event in the IDW comics, Hasbro will advertise the toys and comics more to try and increase awareness, but at present, they're hardly mainstream, and pre-teens are unlikely to get on-board because they haven't got that relation to character that a Movie or TV show brings. Basically, what I'm saying is that Generations seems to be solely targeted towards Collectors.

I've seen that Generations have at times been pegged to the adult collector demographic, but usually its when they are talking about high-end things like Masterpiece toys and Leader Class Jetfire.
I think the Hasbro people tell the audience at BotCon, Toyfair and SDCC that the regular Generations toys are aimed at them (the adult collectors), but since they are general release items to retailers for regular shoppers, it was probably just to make us feel special or important.
(and even if the primary target for Generations is the adults because of some of the more obscure characters or 80s homages, since the younger group is their main "bread and butter", the toys would be designed to also interest them and be able to afford them)

Take the upcoming Superion for example. He's had the occasional toy, but Superion as a character: he's been seen in ancillary media (computer games and expanded universe fiction), but not in a mainline TV Show or Movie since... the 80's? And yet here he is, getting an updated toy. I can understand the appeal of a gimmick (combining) by retailers, and it does help attract additional (non-Collector) buyers, but this guy is clearly for the Collectors -- aged 25+.

I think based on the persistence of character toys like Optimus, Bumblebee and Megatron that have elements of their original forms to varying degrees... is not for the fans who were from the 80s (and would now be averaging 40 years old), but for everyone younger to see it as something new (to them) AND the 80s fans as a bonus who would buy it for the homage.
The point is that these iconic characters from Gen1 keep recurring in new mode forms and in homage mode forms, because it is easier to produce than creating a character and toy from scratch... and the designers know that that type of vehicle and colours (and gimmicks like combining) was a winning formula so is less risk for their budget.
It's less "fan-service" and more reliability/convenience/laziness.

Generations Silverbolt is like Movie Dinobots - both are homaging mid-80s characters and toys that us long-term fans immediately recognise as a homage, but for the majority of people who buy the toys, they won't know that until later (if they become a collector and learn about the history of the Brand). To them, toys like Silverbolt and Grimlock are no different to Crosshairs or Slash... and won't see any of those four figures being aimed for a different age-group or demographic (based on the packaging or engineering of each).
And that's where we come in... to enlighten the newbies... to teach them about the 30 years of Transformers, and help them learn about all the various incarnations of those "new" characters that they have recently bought.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said, Griff. I think I'm just very confused about Transformers full stop.

That's all good. It's such a complicated beast these days, and most fans are too excited by the toy reveals at those presentations to take note (or notes) of what is being said about the breakdown strategy they've been adopting in the last 2-3 years.
The US Toyfairs are the best for details and Brand strategies, so when the next one is on in two months time, check out the slides and details of how the next year's toys are being marketed (and designed).

[Verno]

This is probably why they now split their focus on three age-groups, so that they can make a massive amount of cheap/simple toys that will then help fund the higher cost of producing the more expensive limited-edition collector toys on the other end of the spectrum.

So Hasbro does love us! They're duping younglings (and their parents) with cheap rubbish to bankroll better stuff (and I'd include Generations toys in that) for the longer-term fans.

Again, I really appreciate the in-depth analysis, Griff. If I may just pick your brain on one last topic -- one quite close to my heart.

2016 will be the Beast Wars 20th Anniversary. Do you see a small number of new Generation-style Beast Wars toys fitting into Hasbro's current mode of operation? Is it likely on its own? Or does it require a tie-in with an IDW Comic miniseries, much like the Combiner Wars toys coming in 2015? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Pre-orders for Wave 1 are now up on BBTS: http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/menu.aspx?menu=3593

[griffin]

As a disclaimer, that everyone should already be aware of - I don't work for Hasbro, and don't claim to know everything they know or do. Since I have an obligation here to report news, I try to find out as much as I can from any Hasbro source (like their quarterly reports, conventions, Toyfair and talking to their marketing people whenever I get the chance), and then try to fill any gaps remaining.
I'm probably one of the few who have more interest in reading their quarterly reports and studying the graphs and statistics at conventions, than the toy reveals... because the toys will be plastered everywhere eventually for me to catch up on, but often the technical background info that explains the reason those toys exist, is only released once. And those reasons give an idea of what their future potential is, and what is unlikely.

2016 will be the Beast Wars 20th Anniversary. Do you see a small number of new Generation-style Beast Wars toys fitting into Hasbro's current mode of operation? Is it likely on its own? Or does it require a tie-in with an IDW Comic miniseries, much like the Combiner Wars toys coming in 2015? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I'd be surprised if there was a year-wide theme for 2016 like Combiner Wars is 2015, but based on the types of characters in the last two years of Generations toys, and the fact that so many of the key Hasbro and Takara people were fans of Transformers before they got their jobs, I'd be surprised if they didn't do something to either acknowledge the anniversary or squeeze in a number of homage toys into the Generations line. After all, we saw the 2014 Generations line have three Beast Wars toys, one Beast Machines toy, one RID toy, and one Armada toy... so the designers are able to successfully pitch non-Gen1 characters. (and I don't think it matters if IDW includes them or has to tie into the IDW universe... the IDW people have said that they use upcoming toys if they can make them fit, but aren't bound by anything Hasbro does, or vice-versa)
Even Kreo had a number of Beast Wars microchangers, so that series is not something alien or avoidable to them.


I really don't want to get anyone's hopes up, but I honestly think there will be something... even if it is just a token effort from the (fan) Designers by way of some individual toys if management didn't approve of a larger BW theme for the year. (the one thing working for you in this is that it is a non-movie year, so Hasbro won't be prioritising a movie line and will need a theme to market the 2016 Generations toys to Retailers)

I guess we will find out in June at BotCon, if they've been able to commit toys or a theme to the anniversary.
(unfortunately it would be too late to petition for this to happen if they haven't already started, as new toys and line takes 18+ months to brainstorm, develop and design - but you could petition IDW to include more BW characters in key roles, as their more popular characters are more likely to then be done as toys... it might miss the anniversary, but you never know)