Morning all...

[k.wong23]

Welcome buddy

[Me Grimlock!]

What?! Generation 1 is a term that was retrospectively created to describe Transformers before Transformers Generation 2. Transformers Generation 2 came into existence in 1993, thus everything Transformers created before the G2 brand in 1993 is Generation 1!

If you're saying that Primus didn't exist in G1 then where did he come from?? G2? That's certainly not the case. Also, Primus originated in the UK comics - although the US and UK comics are part of the same continuity (with some notable exceptions like the Earthforce Saga).

Primus, as he originally appeared in the UK G1 comics


Primus vs Unicron in a later appearance in the US G1 comics


Suggesting that the G1 comics are not G1 is just wrong. It was Marvel Comics who created the entire background mythos for Transformers in the beginning and the comics came out before the G1 cartoon and continued long after the cartoon ended (cartoon = 1985-87, comics = 1984-92). Marvel would publish the Generation 2 comics in 1993, but Primus already made an appearance well before then. In fact, Primus doesn't appear nor is mentioned in G2 - rather G2 focuses on the malevolent divine entity known as the Swarm (ultimately transformed by the Matrix into what would be the Vok as seen in Beast Wars).


I think it's safe to say that Grimlock became a believer in Primus after Primus woke up and transported him (alongside Bumblebee, Jazz, Seawatch, Stakeout, Red Hot and Fixit to Earth). But it doesn't change the fact that Grimlock was an adamant non-believer and skeptic when the Autobots found Primus. He was the only one who refused to kneel before Primus and demanded the Keeper to prove his claim that Primus was the God of Transformers.

Grimlock came to believe in Primus after being presented with evidence, unlike the other Autobots who were willing to believe in Primus through sheer faith and undemanding of further proof aside from seeing their God.


The sight of their living God made all the Autobots into believers, save Grimlock who demanded further evidence.

Yeah - know the comic, but in my mind, G1 is the cartoon - G1 Marvel is the hash job they did in the comics - ulitmately the two universes are too different. It didn't help that successive generations have mixed the mythos of both. As far as I'm concerned the TF's were the products of the Quints. Bot = Consumer goods. Cons = Military hardware. As revealed in the post-movie episode where some of the bots got thrown back in time and met A3/Alpha Trion.

[GoktimusPrime]

Yes, but that's just your own personal opinion/preference, not a fact. The fact is that all things TF related created before the 1993 Generation 2 brand is widely considered to be Generation 1, and the term Generation 1 (also spelt "Generation One") has been adopted and used in an official capacity to describe all things pre-G2.

G1 Marvel is the hash job they did in the comics

"G1 Marvel" refers to both the comics and cartoon as Marvel also produced the cartoon under contract from Sunbow Productions... hence why you see both Marvel and Sunbow's logo in the cartoon.



And what hash job?? The comics' continuity was a lot tighter than the comics and the story-telling was done at a higher and more mature level. The comics actually gave us characters with complex facets who changed and evolved as the series progressed. The cartoon gave us largely shallow one-dimensional caricatures.

ulitmately the two universes are too different.

That doesn't make one universe more or less valid than the other. As different as they may be, they are all valid forms of G1. Be it the:
+ Comics
+ Cartoon
+ Story books
+ Colouring-in books
+ Toy continuity (e.g.: Optimus Prime's Nucleon Quest)
+ Adventure-books
+ Manga
+ Animé
etc etc etc.

Transformers has never had a single continuity and while it's fine for you to have a preference of one continuity over others, I don't think it's fair to say that your personally preferred continuity is better or more valid than others.

Holy cow it's Sparkplug's long-lost third son, Butch Witwicky!!

It didn't help that successive generations have mixed the mythos of both.

But remember that Beast Wars writers were ignorant of Transformers when they were first hired to write Beast Wars. They then made a conscious decision to research Transformers Generation 1 and 2 by watching excerpts from the cartoon, comics and toys (tech specs) - as well as consulting with Transformer fans online (hence why the show is littered with references to Transfans and Transfandom, as an act of gratitude for the assistance they got from fans).

Beast Wars is overall a continuation from an "overall G1" - which is really an amalgam of the cartoon and comics. If it bothers you that much, just think of Beast Wars as existing in another reality where their G1 was different from the cartoon or comics but happens to contain elements of both (although their reference to G2 is consistent! ).

Bob Forward and Larry DiTillio didn't have to research into G1 and G2. They could've completely ignored it and made Beast Wars into an entirely different reality - which is what most other TF writers do (e.g.: Car Robot, Armadaverse, movie, Animated, DW, IDW etc) because it's just easier for writers to do that. Slotting Beast Wars into G1/G2 continuity was hard work and required Forward and DiTillio to spend hours of their free (unpaid) time doing homework with researching into G1 and G2 continuities.

Okay, it wasn't perfect - but I really respect them for putting in that amount of dedication and effort into their work just to make us happy!

Beast Machines though carries on directly from the G1 cartoon - it draws no references from the comics (this is of course because it was written by G1 writer Marty Isenberg... although Isenberg hasn't done the same when he wrote Animated - probably because he was directed by Hasbro to make Animated a whole new continuity).

As far as I'm concerned the TF's were the products of the Quints. Bot = Consumer goods. Cons = Military hardware. As revealed in the post-movie episode where some of the bots got thrown back in time and met A3/Alpha Trion.

Again, that's your personal preference and you're entitled to it. But it doesn't mean that other continuities are less valid because of it.

I prefer the comic continuity. I much prefer the Transformers as being the children of Primus. Having said that, I don't go around discounting the G1 cartoon or any other form of G1 just because I happen to prefer the comics! I mean, I really hate the G1 Victory manga... but I don't discount it as part of G1. The fact is that it is Generation One, regardless of what I or anyone else thinks about the Decepticons being married with children (*shudders*).

"Welcome home, honey!"

So while you're perfectly welcome to your preferences and opinions - remember that it's a fact that there are aspects of G1 beyond just the cartoon and toys! Anything related to Transformers that was created under licence from Hasbro Inc. and/or Takara Co., Ltd is G1 - and it's been officially retconned as so.

There's also retro-G1 too, as in the now-defunct DW War Within and G1 series and current G1 series from IDW, including "All Hail Megatron" which is written by Australian writer (and user on this board) Shane McCarthy (there's photos of him in one of the Perth fan meet threads). (^O^)

[kup]

After reading all the Marvel comics (US&UK) for me the Marvel continuity is the continuity I think of now when refering to G1 but that's my preference only.

In my oppinion the continuity there is so much better than the cartoon and it also adds precedence as the comic is older and by the admittance of Sunbow and Marvel, the cartoon opening episodes (MTMTE) is an adaptation of the original G1 Marvel 4 issue comic miniseries. They went into radically different paths after that but the comic still has precedence and is every bit as much 'G1' as the cartoon.

It is up to the individual to choose which 'path' they wish to follow when it comes to Transformers but its hard to deny that the comics have both precedence and are every bit as much 'G1' as the cartoon and based on the legacy of a given continuity. It also could be argued that comics have more influence than the cartoon itself since the modern mythos grab much from the Marvel comics as its background with bits and pieces of the cartoon continuity (which aside from the Season 3 Quints/Unicron origin) as well being heavily influenced by the characters portrayed. This of course does not make the G1 cartoon redundant either as mythos from it have also been carried over and adapted throughout the G1 story such as Vector Sigma, Quints and the Matrix (as a solid object rather than a mystical program originated in the comics).

At the end despite which continuity one prefers to follow or which feels like the more influential; its hard to deny that both of them belong to a greater whole which now all modern mythos are based upon.

[Me Grimlock!]

Absolutely - everyone has their own take on the TF continuity, but in terms of my personal pref, it has to be the Sunbow cartoon. No it's not perfect (lets not get started on the origin of the Constructicons...), but I never found the comics that compelling, even with Furman writing. And of course both comic and cartoon suffered from "I'm the latest addition to the toy-line and therefore am uber and undefeatable" for this week. The rollcall eps and issues were never all that great, but I found that the G1 cartoon generated a pathos that was never beaten. Case in point: the Aerialbots going back in time and meeting Megs and Orion Pax - and understanding the true nature of the decepticons. When they get back Airraid (I think...) yells out as the Cons retreat something about never letting Megatron get away. And it was the cartoon continuity that gave us the movie, and the true death of Prime (beaten in a computer game - please...) Of course they both had their genesis out of the Marvel/Sunbow work, but I know which one I read as gospel.

Which all contributes to why I'm loving All Hail Megatron - nice solid continuity, great art (both G1 in toon and comic suffered from some dire art at times), nice fan boy references, and a moment for the bad boys truly to be bad.

[griffin]

Don't be too put off by Goktimus' abruptness. We all know that you meant it as your perception and opinion. Just don't think you have to defend yourself over it, as if one person's opinion is better than another. You can say what you like about what you prefer as Gen1 (or any series), and as long as no one else tries to say you are wrong (because opinions are only subjective), people can discuss if they agree or disagree as much as they want.

[Bartrim]

Welcome to Ozformers... and thanks for creating an interesting thread to read straight up

[Autocon]

my understanding

the bots n cons were created by quints then primus put sparks in them and reconfigured them?

[GoktimusPrime]

I have no idea where you got that from.

According to the G1 comics, the Transformers were created by the God Primus and possess living sparks known as life essence or Primal essence. The term "Spark" comes from Beast Wars. When Primus created Cybertron and the Transformers species, he also forged the Creation Matrix from his own life essence - and thus the Creation Matrix was capable of creating new life - much like the AllSpark Cube, but not so sensitive. The Matrix's energy-code could also be manipulated (such as when Shockwave used it to create the Constructicons) and transferred between beings (such as when Optimus Prime transferred it to the mind of Buster Witwicky).

According to the G1 cartoon, the Transformers were created by the Quintessons as slaves and soldiers which they then sold off to their clientele. The cartoon was inconsistent as to how Transformers were actually living. The episodes "Divide and Conquer" and "The Autobot Run" stated that a Transformer would die if their Laser Core were extinguished. Transformers such as the Dinobots and Constructicons were built on Earth and there didn't seem to be any reference to these Transformers being imbued with living Laser Cores (Sparks)... they just seemed to be sentient self-aware (cogito ergo sum) robots but devoid of any reference to an actual "living soul." David Wise wanted to introduce an element of more serious science fiction to Transformers and thus introduced Vector Sigma who imbued life to the Stunticons and Aerialbots (and also absorbed the spirit of Alpha Trion). Oh yeah, for some unexplained reason Starscream's laser core became a ghost. Beast Wars has since retconned an explanation for why Starscream's Spark became a phantasm but it was never originally explained in the G1 cartoon.

[Autocon]

thanks for that

see if we can try and merge these two now

god primus created cybertron then the quints came and cliamed it for themsleves (unaware that the planet was a living being). quients created tfs and this gave primus an idea create sparks to give life to these robots. victor sigma was created to enable spark transfer and imbued life to the robots

???

there are two types of constructicon, the spark varitey which was on cybertron and the ones on earth which were drones. the ones on earth were created in the likeness of the cybertronian constructicons using earth vehicles which are similar to the cybertron ones

???


i was bored.....