Rogue One

[GoktimusPrime]

Behind the scenes of how they made Tarkin's face

[Raider]

So the stars aligned and the missus and I finally had a chance to head to the movies to see something other than Sing or Trolls... Rogue One! It has been mighty difficult ensuring there were no spoilers since it's release (I mean we all knew what was going to happen but the journey was the adventure) but it was well worth it. Loved it. Perfect ending imho. Oh and I am clearly not a true fan as I was totally like "where are all the Bothans?" and needed to Google the answer...

[SuspectimusPrime]

"where are all the Bothans?"

Considering how badly the Rebellion fleet was decimated in Rogue One, yet still not deserving a one-liner nor a sullen moment of silence in A New Hope, I have extremely high expectations for the Bothans.

[GoktimusPrime]

A lot of people have criticised Vader's appearance in Rogue One as being needless. And while I was able to justify his assault on the Rebels, I initially felt that his appearance on Mustafar wasn't necessary as it doesn't really contribute to the plot - and this is true.

But I just realised that that scene does establish something else that contributes to A New Hope -- just how bitter his hatred towards Obi-Wan Kenobi had become. By living at the site where Obi-Wan nearly killed him, Vader is constantly reminded of his defeat which would continually fuel his obsession with wanting to kill Kenobi. Whether the Emperor chose for Vader to live there or if Vader himself chose to live there in order to further feed his own rage is not known, but the result is the same.

This explains why Vader is so keen to immediately hunt down and kill Obi-Wan when he felt his presence on the Death Star. And why there wasn't any kind of emotional reunion between the two characters - no argument, no sustained conversation... just Vader telling Obi-Wan how he's been itching to finish their fight that they had 20 freakin' years ago. And he didn't order any Stormtroopers to accompany him - it had to be one on one because this was such a personal fight for Vader.

Okay, Vader's interaction with Krennic wasn't really necessary, but it allowed the story to show us how Vader lives, which in turn helps to flesh out (no pun intended) Vader's character and motivations. And we know that the ending of Rogue One explains why Vader's so urinated with the Rebels at the beginning of A New Hope, because those Rebels (including Leia) are trolling Vader so hard!
"Where are the plans?"
"Plans? Dunno what you're talking about, dude. We're a diplomatic mission."
"Pig's bum! I was literally chasing you guys with the plans at your door just an hour ago!"

And the Mustafar scene also helps to further explain why Vader is so obsessed with Obi-Wan Kenobi two decades after their fight. We even see Grand Moff Tarkin in ANH basically tell Vader, "Seriously? Just let it go." - but Vader can't. Mental health practice tells us that the standard way of dealing with trauma is diversion therapy. It's not like in movies and TV shows where people are made to recall their traumatic events (that does happen if they have to testify as a key witness in court, but this is also why this kind of testament is really difficult for victims as it's causing them mental anguish and goes against the healing process; worse still when cases drag on and the witness needs to testify multiple times ). As far as treating patients are concerned, treatment focuses on getting them to basically stop dwelling on unpleasant events and think about other more positive things. In other words, to get on with their lives. Aside from his suit being a permanent reminder of his greatest defeat, living in proximity to where it happened would possibly be an even bigger and constant reminder. Imagine if a victim of the Boston Marathon bombing who had to have limbs amputated were to live in a building just across the road from where the explosive had gone off. And they were socially isolated - no friends, no family... just looking out the window at the site of that horrible event every day. It would drive you insane... and this explains Vader's state of mind and yeah, his obsession with Obi-Wan must've been part of this insanity.

[SuspectimusPrime]

A lot of people have criticised Vader's appearance in Rogue One as being needless. And while I was able to justify his assault on the Rebels, I initially felt that his appearance on Mustafar wasn't necessary as it doesn't really contribute to the plot - and this is true.

But I just realised that that scene does establish something else that contributes to A New Hope -- just how bitter his hatred towards Obi-Wan Kenobi had become. By living at the site where Obi-Wan nearly killed him, Vader is constantly reminded of his defeat which would continually fuel his obsession with wanting to kill Kenobi. Whether the Emperor chose for Vader to live there or if Vader himself chose to live there in order to further feed his own rage is not known, but the result is the same.

This explains why Vader is so keen to immediately hunt down and kill Obi-Wan when he felt his presence on the Death Star. And why there wasn't any kind of emotional reunion between the two characters - no argument, no sustained conversation... just Vader telling Obi-Wan how he's been itching to finish their fight that they had 20 freakin' years ago. And he didn't order any Stormtroopers to accompany him - it had to be one on one because this was such a personal fight for Vader.

Okay, Vader's interaction with Krennic wasn't really necessary, but it allowed the story to show us how Vader lives, which in turn helps to flesh out (no pun intended) Vader's character and motivations. And we know that the ending of Rogue One explains why Vader's so urinated with the Rebels at the beginning of A New Hope, because those Rebels (including Leia) are trolling Vader so hard!
"Where are the plans?"
"Plans? Dunno what you're talking about, dude. We're a diplomatic mission."
"Pig's bum! I was literally chasing you guys with the plans at your door just an hour ago!"

I really like this explanation of Vader's castle on Mustafar, however have not gone through the author's sources. As usual, spoiler alert, and watch at your own risk

And the Mustafar scene also helps to further explain why Vader is so obsessed with Obi-Wan Kenobi two decades after their fight. We even see Grand Moff Tarkin in ANH basically tell Vader, "Seriously? Just let it go." - but Vader can't. Mental health practice tells us that the standard way of dealing with trauma is diversion therapy. It's not like in movies and TV shows where people are made to recall their traumatic events (that does happen if they have to testify as a key witness in court, but this is also why this kind of testament is really difficult for victims as it's causing them mental anguish and goes against the healing process; worse still when cases drag on and the witness needs to testify multiple times ). As far as treating patients are concerned, treatment focuses on getting them to basically stop dwelling on unpleasant events and think about other more positive things. In other words, to get on with their lives. Aside from his suit being a permanent reminder of his greatest defeat, living in proximity to where it happened would possibly be an even bigger and constant reminder. Imagine if a victim of the Boston Marathon bombing who had to have limbs amputated were to live in a building just across the road from where the explosive had gone off. And they were socially isolated - no friends, no family... just looking out the window at the site of that horrible event every day. It would drive you insane... and this explains Vader's state of mind and yeah, his obsession with Obi-Wan must've been part of this insanity.

Hatred and vengeance is important, but don't forget that Mustafar should be the last place Anakin sees Padme alive; after choking her, he gets beaten by Obi-Wan, and waking up he is told by Sidious that Padme didn't survive. Scene 231.

Using your analogy, I see it more like the perpetrator of the Boston Marathon living in close proximity to the site where the love of his life also perished (along with his limbs), when she should not have been there; and then later on runs into an old friend who brought her there (against his plans).
(Also, not-trying to romanticise the Boston Marathon Bombing from an alt POV here...)
At that stage, even killing Obi-Wan won't really give Vader closure.

[philby]

maybe don't look at it from vader's view, but from krennic? he is desperate for this thing to work, he thinks it is his ride to advancement and he wants the emperors approval. instead of the emperor he is stuck with trying to impress tarkin and then gets summoned to see vader. so it could be as much about showing krennic never being able to get an audience with the emperor or that he has to keep going little bits of the way before he will be allowed the priveledge to see him?

[griffin]

Finally got around to seeing it yesterday as it was no longer playing at my nearest theatre, so I had to go to the nearest 16 cineplex... and it only had one session on each day so it was probably in its last week.
I guess being out for 2 months is a long time for movies now, with the distributors trying to break opening records and get everyone to see it in the first week. I just thought that a Star Wars movie would be out longer than this.
Now I can read this topic to see what others thought.
I think the movie fits in between Ep 3 and 4 well, leading straight into Ep 4... making me want to go watch it. But it is ultimately a sad movie.... and I guess it should have been obvious while watching it that all these new major characters had to die before the end of the movie, or else, where were they in Eps 4 to 6. That would make it harder to generate too many fans of those characters or sell as many toys.
I would have liked more involvement by pre-existing characters, but understand why it was difficult or impossible.
It was a little too slow for me during much of the first half, but it was the first time we got a good look at how vast and powerful the Empire really was. (We didn't really see any Imperial strongholds or occupied worlds in Eps 4 to 6 other than the two Death Stars and Tatooine).