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[yoshi594]

TBI only mentions the australian consumer law once and that's on returns

"Our policy on returns is in addition to your rights under the Australian Consumer Law because we want you to be happy with your purchase. Please read the above carefully to ensure you are fully aware of your rights under this policy and our obligations to you."

They however do not mention anything about the consumer law for refunds and "reasonable time". Having said that, it is a choice to cancel/ask for refund for an item that's beyond reasonable (mp-43 if not purchased with another pending item). If the person didn't know about the consumer law, they wouldn't dare to refund/cancel because of the T&C

In the event you choose to cancel your pre-order, the full cost, including shipping, is non-refundable due to administrative costs and other fees incurred by us. We keep our product costs low by ordering in bulk and we are still obliged to pay suppliers for any pre-ordered products initially ordered. We are not able to cancel or reduce quantities from our suppliers once ordered.

Most common people would not know about the "reasonable time" clause as demonstrated in this thread.

[Raider]

They however do not mention anything about the consumer law for refunds and "reasonable time". Having said that, it is a choice to cancel/ask for refund for an item that's beyond reasonable (mp-43 if not purchased with another pending item). If the person didn't know about the consumer law, they wouldn't dare to refund/cancel because of the T&C

I'm not sure I agree with you on this. Almost any consumer knows that if you pay for a good and don't receive it that you are entitled to your money back. Further, it is not the obligations of a business to point out to consumers every legal right they may have. If they had to point out all the protections under the ACL their T&Cs would be 10 times larger. People clearly don't read them as they stand.

There needs to be a measure of responsibilty that consumers take for themselves. Some people have genuine gripes, no doubt. Some are chronic complainers where no one can meet their expectations. Others are just ignorant of taking personal responsibility. No matter which category someone may fall into, they need to ensure that they are cognisant of the fact that they need to take a measure of personal responsibilty, mixed with tempered and reaslistic expectation.

On another note, has anyone ever cancelled their pre-order and not received a full refund? Whilst their T&Cs state they won't refund in that circumstace, I bet in practice they still do. I am not counting chargeback requests or paypal disputes.

[Mikael]

Is there a TBI representative on this forum, using an alias or otherwise? It would be helpful to see the real TBI here to respond in a similar way to the FB page. Nothing worse than heaps of questions with no real responses, nothing can be assumed otherwise. Unlike FB, would be more transparent.

[Omega Metro]

Is there a TBI representative on this forum, using an alias or otherwise? It would be helpful to see the real TBI here to respond in a similar way to the FB page. Nothing worse than heaps of questions with no real responses, nothing can be assumed otherwise. Unlike FB, would be more transparent.

Not sure that they are commenting these days but they are definitely reading the posts.

[ZoonMaster5000]

MP-29+ was received damaged.... did zoonmaster have correspondence about this? And was anything else ordered with it?

I was never asked if I would take a damaged box and knew nothing about it until I saw a post thanking people for taking them. I did have 1 ordered by itself and another with other items which have been delivered so no reason for them not to deliver.

They just chose to ignore me for 9 months to then say they didn?t have them and would order more. Id imagine in this situation I am well within my right to request a refund which was never offered, back to waiting probably another year I guess

[jaydisc]

Hi Folks,

Allow me to offer some generic advice, independent of any reseller.

Australian Consumer Law is indeed awesome, and I love quoting it, but in all likelihood, other than verbally wielding it as a scare tactic, you’re probably not going to actually get to use it - as in, you’re not going to be into a situation with lawyers and a judge making a decision based upon it.

Instead, where you probably should to be focusing your attention is on the payment method.

I say this all the time, but I’m always happy to say it again:

Always pay with a credit card

If they only take PayPal, always FUND the transaction with a credit card, and you’re equally protected (just don’t use PP’s dispute system - it’s rubbish)

And for the remainder of this discussion, if you are using a "debit card", with a major credit card logo, for all relevant purposes, that’s a “credit card”.

IN ORDER TO ACCEPT credit card payments, THE MERCHANT (reseller) has agreed to terms and conditions, and in line with those terms and conditions, the credit card processors have NO TROUBLE rescinding the processing of credit cards if that merchant/reseller violates those terms enough. This why Premium Collectables started losing their ability to accept AfterPay, OxiPay, PayPal, credit cards, etc., and in their last days, all they could accept, was bank transfers.

(Don’t ever bank transfer preorders)

And, most importantly, the credit card policies THE RESELLER agreed to are very clear. If they don’t deliver, a dispute can be made, and not only will the credit card company TAKE your money back from the reseller and give it BACK to you, they’ll also charge the reseller a $20-30 punishment for the privilege (chargeback fee). The reseller can point all they want to their own terms and conditions - the credit card company will shrug, and refund your money anyway. There is only one way they won’t, and that is if the reseller provides "proof of delivery". It doesn’t even matter if the reseller no longer has your money, and/or if the credit card company can or can't claw it back…. YOU get it back regardless. There are even clauses in these terms, where if a preorder is delayed, the merchant must offer a refund.

So, while you can most certainly complain to a reseller about them infringing ACL, unless you’re going to lawyer up, it’s a pretty hollow threat. On the other hand, the power of the credit card dispute, is indisputable.

[philby]

I don't think it is "common sense" to know that shops order stock from multiple distributors and that stock sits in ship containers waiting to be filled.
I think it is common sense that if you advertise something to be available on a date and that date goes by then you update people with a new date and explanation for the delay.

[ChlorHex]

Hi Folks,

Allow me to offer some generic advice, independent of any reseller.

Australian Consumer Law is indeed awesome, and I love quoting it, but in all likelihood, other than verbally wielding it as a scare tactic, you’re probably not going to actually get to use it - as in, you’re not going to be into a situation with lawyers and a judge making a decision based upon it.

Instead, where you probably should to be focusing your attention is on the payment method.

I say this all the time, but I’m always happy to say it again:

Always pay with a credit card

If they only take PayPal, always FUND the transaction with a credit card, and you’re equally protected (just don’t use PP’s dispute system - it’s rubbish)

And for the remainder of this discussion, if you are using a "debit card", with a major credit card logo, for all relevant purposes, that’s a “credit card”.

IN ORDER TO ACCEPT credit card payments, THE MERCHANT (reseller) has agreed to terms and conditions, and in line with those terms and conditions, the credit card processors have NO TROUBLE rescinding the processing of credit cards if that merchant/reseller violates those terms enough. This why Premium Collectables started losing their ability to accept AfterPay, OxiPay, PayPal, credit cards, etc., and in their last days, all they could accept, was bank transfers.

(Don’t ever bank transfer preorders)

And, most importantly, the credit card policies THE RESELLER agreed to are very clear. If they don’t deliver, a dispute can be made, and not only will the credit card company TAKE your money back from the reseller and give it BACK to you, they’ll also charge the reseller a $20-30 punishment for the privilege (chargeback fee). The reseller can point all they want to their own terms and conditions - the credit card company will shrug, and refund your money anyway. There is only one way they won’t, and that is if the reseller provides "proof of delivery". It doesn’t even matter if the reseller no longer has your money, and/or if the credit card company can or can't claw it back…. YOU get it back regardless. There are even clauses in these terms, where if a preorder is delayed, the merchant must offer a refund.

So, while you can most certainly complain to a reseller about them infringing ACL, unless you’re going to lawyer up, it’s a pretty hollow threat. On the other hand, the power of the credit card dispute, is indisputable.

^This is sound advice... for any online purchase from any online store.

As for TBI, i do not have any issues with them and they've always delivered on what I'd ordered (i only purchase in stock items).

They've grown too big too quickly without a plan and it's just sad to see another aussie online toy shop repeating the same mistakes others made before them.

[Mikael]

I've had to initiate a chargeback on an overdue item as the TBI duo haven't replied to emails over months. Left no other option really.
But note they have time to update FB, forums, and their other social media accounts.
First and last transaction.

[griffin]

I understand why Consumer Law may need to use terms like "reasonable amount of time" because detailing a set timeframe could be abused by scammers, or be a problem to retailers who might have their hands tied by overseas suppliers or unreliable shipping mediums. (if a shipment is lost, it could take months for the supplier to send more, or have insurance cover the cost of new stock or refunds)
Because a retailer may have already paid for their stock, they could be bankrupt if one shipment is delayed and all of the customers get their money back too quickly. That's why prompt and frequent communication is the key to delaying the requests for refunds. Over the last few years, delays haven't been the downfall of several local online stores, it was the lack of communication. Delays from suppliers will often earn sympathy and patience from most people... lack of communication just generates negative feedback that others will also object to because it can't be defended.

My thinking is that, if a retailer doesn't communicate a delay before, or within a day of, the release date that was noted when the order is made, then the customer should be entitled to a full refund if they request it, as a penalty to the business for failing to be considerate of the customer's needs.

If they do communicate the problems with their suppliers, then it should be up to that "reasonable amount of time" after that, that the customer can request their money back and get it without dispute or question. Because it isn't fair to be waiting months or years for something that is already available at other sources.
(and if they don't refund you after all of that, follow Jaydisc's advice and do a credit card charge-back if you used one)

I wonder how big a non-refundable deposit can be, before it is just profiteering (if it is even legal), to cover the administrative cost of processing their order and cancelling it, as well as maybe covering any loss of money they might incur discounting the item when it does eventually come in, if it doesn't have much demand.