SPOILER THREAD - The Last Jedi

[GoktimusPrime]

You're right that a large part of the reason that Nolan's Batman films worked is because he stuck to Bruce Wayne's character - broody, morose, self martyring. Nolan didn't try and make him the average MCU hero.

It's not just that. Man of Steel made Superman into a broody, morose and self-martyring character too, and a lot of fans disliked it. What works for Batman doesn't necessarily work for Superman. I think what worked more in Nolan's Batman films was that he never allowed the stories to have more than one protagonist. I read somewhere that he was asked early on to tie in Batman with other DC franchises in hopes of building a Justice League movie but Nolan refused. And from a story-telling POV you can understand why. He only wanted the story to just focus on Batman and Batman alone as its central protagonist. Making Batman share the limelight with other heroes and heroines means splitting that focus due to the inclusion of an ensemble cast.

Having said that, I personally think that the MCU movies do well considering that they are doing stories with large ensemble casts. Certainly a lot better than what Michael Bay does with Transformers where so many of the Autobots and Decepticons are barely distinguishable from each other and become terribly forgettable as people. And Avengers Infinity War is the mother of them as it basically stars everyone! But the film still gives enough spotlight on each hero and heroine - none of them feel like set pieces unlike say Jolt. Ask your average non-Transformers fan who've seen ROTF and see if they remember who Jolt is and describe anything about him.

Nolan created Batman movies which were great as pieces of film literature, no doubt. But the MCU has given fans what they've wanted, and while these movies are by no means story-telling masterpieces they are just fun and entertaining movies to watch.

Sorry, were we talking about Star Wars?

In regards to The Last Jedi, aside from the Casino Planet scene, I think the rest of the movie is fine. When The Force Awakens came out people accused it of copying the basic plot of A New Hope - fans complain. The Last Jedi has given us something that's really different from other Star Wars movies - fans complain. And as bold as TLJ is, the Sequels are still in the same spirit as the Original Trilogy so far.
Act 1: emerging out of a period of darkness there is a rebellion/resistance and a new hero/heroine arises to give the galaxy a new hope.
Act 2: the Empire/First Order Strikes Back. The goodies are pushed to the brink. The story ends on a downer with a glimpse of hope for the future.
Act 3: Yub nub? Time will tell if Episode IX will mirror the spirit of Episode VI.

I can appreciate that these filmmakers have the unenviable task of making movies that are similar enough to the Original Trilogy to make fans happy, but at the same time different enough to make fans happy. Only that fans are never happy, cos each new Star Wars movie that comes out is the worst ever. Brace yourself for the fan-hate for Solo -- worst Star Wars... ever!

[Trent]

Honest trailers from a month ago, with almost nothing good to say about the movie.

Missed the joke huh Griff?

[griffin]

When The Force Awakens came out people accused it of copying the basic plot of A New Hope - fans complain. The Last Jedi has given us something that's really different from other Star Wars movies - fans complain.

The feeling I got when I saw TLJ is that it was similar to ESB... with the Empire chasing evacuating Rebels, and a Jedi in training... and left at the end with a dire situation for the Rebels (not a victory).
After having ep7 feeling like ep4, I was annoyed that ep8 felt like ep5... because it meant the people at Disney don't care about the new franchise they bought, to give us something original.

Missed the joke huh Griff?

I get the point of Honest Trailers, but it usually savages really bad movies this bad... and if there are redeeming features, there will be a mention, or left out - it felt like no character or plot device was left untouched in this HT.
And that's one reason I like HT, because they will usually say why things are bad, and not just say something sucked like an internet troll.

[Trent]

The feeling I got when I saw TLJ is that it was similar to ESB... with the Empire chasing evacuating Rebels, and a Jedi in training... and left at the end with a dire situation for the Rebels (not a victory).
After having ep7 feeling like ep4, I was annoyed that ep8 felt like ep5... because it meant the people at Disney don't care about the new franchise they bought, to give us something original.



I get the point of Honest Trailers, but it usually savages really bad movies this bad... and if there are redeeming features, there will be a mention, or left out - it felt like no character or plot device was left untouched in this HT.
And that's one reason I like HT, because they will usually say why things are bad, and not just say something sucked like an internet troll.

Well, I suppose the first thing to point out is that your opinion of whether TLJ was “this bad” is pretty subjective. I personally think it is one of the better Star Wars movies and poops over any of the prequel movies. And that is the point of the HT, rather than making fun of the movie itself, it makes fun of just how polarising the movie was. Just look at the fact that they used two narrators representing polar opposites of opinions. They point out both the bad and the good in the movie. Is the movie full of plot holes? Of course, just like any other Star Wars movie. Does it waste out time with boring sub plots? Well, yes, so does every prequel movie. Does it follow the basic formula of eps 4, 5 and 6? Yes. But again, so do the prequels.

I know I bang on about this but it just amazes me how so many people shit all over Rian Johnson and TLJ acting like he ruined SW. But people forget, It was already ruined by George Lucas with Pod Racing, Jar Jar Binks, Hayden Christiansen, The entirety of Attack of the Clones, The Jedi Council, How Padme died. I could go on. The beauty of TLJ is that Rian actively addresses the stupidity of the Jedi Council. He echos the things I’ve been shaking my head at for years and tries to correct them like how only Skywalkers can be powerful Jedi. He tried something new within the constraints he had and it worked. It just wasn’t what the fandom had built it up to be.

But I understand how others don’t necessarily like the direction. The plot devices left unexplored from TFA was a little disappointing but I think what was gained in unshackling the characters and story from predetermined outcomes was well worth it.

[drifand]

My main issue is the story wasn’t told properly.

I don’t feel sorry for Rian because he has been outright very defensive about his decisions. Meaning to say this movie can’t be as any more perfect than what he has produced which I would disagree and could have made it better even staying true to his ideas.

Before tlj I didn’t know who is Rian Johnson, now I know very well but not for the positive reasons unfortunately.

[kurdt_the_goat]

I just watched this finally having avoided all spoilers! Was definitely a weird one. Felt like Luke, like Han in the previous one was a bit too much comedic relief in places. But i thought the way he went at the end was pretty bad ass. Bad ass when I thought he was actually there and moreso whrn i realised he probably wasn't. That's a cool new jedi skill to introduce, afaik/can remember. Emperor would have saved a lot on holo-calls if he could have done that!

Rey was funny in that, about half way through i said to my wife there's only really 2 possibilities here, she's Kylo's sister or her parents are nobodies since who the hell would they be otherwise lol. Sure enough, nobodies with that exact wording haha.

Snoke getting split was umm ok are you sure there's going to be a ninth one? Lol felt near the end this director had it in for the next and was deliberately trying to wrap it up and make no story threads to continue on from. Don't learn a thing about how he came to be or anything. Did they leave it in a book or comic or something? Had some cool powers and cruelty but nothing as cool as Palpatine's character by Ep3. POWARRRR!

Leia going all Matrix ghost was pretty messed up. Purple hair lady why is your hair purple and annoying to look at? I forget the name of ace x wing guy cause he barely did anything here except explain the obvious at the end.

As a fan of sci fi I still enjoyed it, space ships and stuff is cool. Im not a ruined my childhood kind of guy but it definitely could have been better. Tbh for all the prequel's faults i would have preferered Lucas still making these. His still felt like Star Wars while these just seem like they're set in the universe or something and are kinda self aware of and mocking it. So far i like Rogue One the best for being wholly new and separate.

[Jetfire in the sky]

I just watched this finally having avoided all spoilers! Was definitely a weird one. Felt like Luke, like Han in the previous one was a bit too much comedic relief in places. But i thought the way he went at the end was pretty bad ass. Bad ass when I thought he was actually there and moreso whrn i realised he probably wasn't. That's a cool new jedi skill to introduce, afaik/can remember. Emperor would have saved a lot on holo-calls if he could have done that!

Rey was funny in that, about half way through i said to my wife there's only really 2 possibilities here, she's Kylo's sister or her parents are nobodies since who the hell would they be otherwise lol. Sure enough, nobodies with that exact wording haha.

Snoke getting split was umm ok are you sure there's going to be a ninth one? Lol felt near the end this director had it in for the next and was deliberately trying to wrap it up and make no story threads to continue on from. Don't learn a thing about how he came to be or anything. Did they leave it in a book or comic or something? Had some cool powers and cruelty but nothing as cool as Palpatine's character by Ep3. POWARRRR!

Leia going all Matrix ghost was pretty messed up. Purple hair lady why is your hair purple and annoying to look at? I forget the name of ace x wing guy cause he barely did anything here except explain the obvious at the end.

As a fan of sci fi I still enjoyed it, space ships and stuff is cool. Im not a ruined my childhood kind of guy but it definitely could have been better. Tbh for all the prequel's faults i would have preferered Lucas still making these. His still felt like Star Wars while these just seem like they're set in the universe or something and are kinda self aware of and mocking it. So far i like Rogue One the best for being wholly new and separate.

With all the hoo haa that's being going on the webs I am amazed that you missed spoilers for this long
When Luke did the force projection thing, the first thing I noticed was his hair was not grey anymore so I figured something was up. Overall I think the movie is all over the place and easily the worst of all SW movies, I love Rebels and The Clone Wars and have read a number of the new canon novels. I actually liked how they explored different force abilities in TLJ, which movie only SW fans probably wouldn't like because the force is heavily explored in the Rebels and TCW.

[SharkyMcShark]

If anyone is on the fence about getting the bluray, I can heartily recommend it.

I skipped the TFA and Rogue One home releases due to a dearth of special features. I picked up TLJ on bluray on sale at Coles of all places - apparently I can't be trusted to do the weekly shopping on my own. It has a whole special features disc, including feature length documentary and a bunch of featurettes all introduced by Rian Johnson.

Regardless of whether you like the film or not it has to be said that this is the kind of thing home releases need to be doing to stand out in the digital age.

[bowspearer]

My main issue is the story wasn’t told properly.

I don’t feel sorry for Rian because he has been outright very defensive about his decisions. Meaning to say this movie can’t be as any more perfect than what he has produced which I would disagree and could have made it better even staying true to his ideas.

Before tlj I didn’t know who is Rian Johnson, now I know very well but not for the positive reasons unfortunately.

Interesting that you bring it up. This film editor is giving Rian Johnson the finger by re-editing the entire film and so far it's looking very promising.

[SharkyMcShark]

Interesting that you bring it up. This film editor is giving Rian Johnson the finger by re-editing the entire film and so far it's looking very promising.

That should be interesting to follow. Not a fan of the use of the force theme in that scene though.

I'm a big advocate of fan edits in general. The gold standard has to be the Star Wars Revisisted project - I prefer the adywan versions of ANH and ESB over the current Lucasfilm approved cuts.

(not really sure why it has to be framed as 'giving Rian Johnson the finger'?)