Discussion of Collection counting methods

[Paulbot]

And I'd amend it to add that any toy with a tech spec that includes reference or infers to the fact that character can't transform.

So tech specs on Heroes of Cybertron and small Titanium toys for example don't count as they describe transforming characters which the non-transforming figure represent.

[TheDirtyDigger]

Nice one Jd.

I like the simplicity of the R.E.C.T.U.M.

And I appreciate the fact that it's optional as to whether you put D.I.C.K. to R.E.C.T.U.M.
I know mine will be much larger if I do.

[liegeprime]

Could you imagine meeting someone with 3000 Wheelies?

a masochist TF collector??!?

[Kyle]

...Some people like their R.E.C.T.U.M. with D.I.C.K. and some people like their R.E.C.T.U.M. without D.I.C.K. ...

Brilliant!!!

jaydisc you're a genius!

[griffin]

The techspec idea is complicated, as many toys either had no cards, multiple cards (combiners) or one card for a group.

The way I count a figure is if it converts or has a convertable component. That way the mainline of Actionmasters count because they came with a convertable component, while things like Mega SCFs, Robot Replicas and Movie Scene Bumblebee don't.
My 'more simplified' counting method is:
1 -Officially produced by Hasbro, Takara or foreign equivalent as a legitimately saleable figure (not a prototype or pre-production figure).
2 -Converts or has a converting component.
3 -Is officially defined as a character, but not be part of another character.
4 -Must be functional/playable (can be broken if it is still playable) and not be a duplicate (has to be distinguishable in some way).

[Kyle]

Would you count some of these as well as the older capsule model kits from Japan? (I mean only the transforming ones.)

http://search.ebay.com/search/search...ers&category0=

[roller]

I love it how over the months of discussion about the counting method some people keep typing


"Dont attack the UCM's existence"

I find this statement hilarious

What if people attack my existence? will you all rise to protect me?

[TheDirtyDigger]

I love it how over the months of discussion about the counting method some people keep typing


"Dont attack the UCM's existence"

I find this statement hilarious

What if people attack my existence? will you all rise to protect me?

I will!

Who's been picking on you lad???
Tell me! Tell me now....I'll rip out their optics!

[GoktimusPrime]

Like Paulbot said, Action Masters aren't like SCF/HOCs or Robot Replicas in terms of being small sub-lines - they were part of the major line, dominating the Transformers line in Hasbro markets, especially in North America. They also played a significant role in G1 canon. Removing SCF/HOCs or Robot Replicas does not alter TF lore, but removing Action Masters _would_ change TF lore. Action Master Snarl even makes an appearance in Transformers Classics.

Action Master Grimlock


Action Master Optimus Prime


Nucleon Quest Convoy


Krok, Bludgeon's lieutenant

Action Master Prowl goes head to head with Bludgeon during the shaky days of the Autobot-Decepticon Alliance

Part of my quest for another counting method was due to the UCM's perceived INFLEXIBILITY or inability to evolve.

The UCM must remain static in order for poll results between years to be comparable, which is the entire purpose of the system's existence. If the rules changed on an annual basis then it would make it impossible to compare annual trends to observe any changes. I've already explained this to you several times. You're more than welcome to create an alternative counting method (although I agree with Bartrim that you might want to consider renaming them to more tasteful acronyms - remember that there are children who read this board too and might want to consider using your alternative method)

1. Is it a Transformer? (tm)/(r)/(c)
2. Does it transform?

Okay, here's a few for ya...

1/ As you've said so yourself, your system doesn't adequately address Action Masters and Nebulans, Master Robots, Brainmaster/Motorvator partners and some Action Master partners remain ambiguous under this definition.

2/ How do gestalts count? In other words, does Devastator count as a Transformer? So if you have all the Constructicons and all the bits to form Devastator, do they count as six Constructicons or seven (including Devastator as the 7th)? Devastator is a licensed Transformer character (thus satisfying your 1st rule) and he transforms into the 6 Constructicons (thus satisfying your 2nd rule).

3/ How do you count combiners? The same as multi-in-1s? (I suspect that this would be the case - Reflector is essentially a combiner).

4/ Do you count Happy Meal Transformers, most of which are licensed Transformers characters who can transform. And the Happy Meal Armada Transformers can interact with Mini-Cons and merge into gestalts!


5/ Do you count candy and gum toys or model kits that can transform?
Kabaya Super Link Galvatron loves candy!

6/ Do you count build-Transformers like Built-To-Rule? They're licensed and transform but are essentially Transformers Lego (just from a different brand).
Built To Rule Inferno

7/ Similar question to Action Masters - what about other licensed "Transformers" characters who don't transform because they were never meant to transform? e.g.: Alpha Quintesson, Transmutate (who is a Cybertronian), Kicker, Gamede etc

8/ Do you count Play Skool Transformers? The Go-Go-Go-Bots (aka Transformers Big Adventures) even had their own cartoon and comic series and game!

What if people attack my existence? will you all rise to protect me?

Hell no!

[jaydisc]

Like Paulbot said, Action Masters aren't like SCF/HOCs or Robot Replicas in terms of being small sub-lines - they were part of the major line, dominating the Transformers line in Hasbro markets, especially in North America. They also played a significant role in G1 canon. Removing SCF/HOCs or Robot Replicas does not alter TF lore, but removing Action Masters _would_ change TF lore. Action Master Snarl even makes an appearance in Transformers Classics.

Now, remember what the R and E in R.E.C.T.U.M. stand for..... REALLY EASY. So, here's the point:

1. Knowing fiction or lore should not be required to count how many toys you own.
2. And as STL so beautifully put, fiction exists as a marketing tool. I will not be assimilated!

How would you respond to my example of the Final Stand Screen Battle analogy?

The UCM must remain static in order for poll results between years to be comparable, which is the entire purpose of the system's existence. If the rules changed on an annual basis then it would make it impossible to compare annual trends to observe any changes. I've already explained this to you several times.

You either misread or misinterpreted. Regardless of the reason, I was simply telling him that the UCM does not "evolve" as you have just reinforced and explained why.

You're more than welcome to create an alternative counting method (although I agree with Bartrim that you might want to consider renaming them to more tasteful acronyms - remember that there are children who read this board too and might want to consider using your alternative method)

BenBen's heard it all before. And we're not really talking about profanity, except for the doubles clause. I'll try to work on that one.

Okay, here's a few for ya...

1/ As you've said so yourself, your system doesn't adequately address Action Masters and Nebulans, Master Robots, Brainmaster/Motorvator partners and some Action Master partners remain ambiguous under this definition.

Is it a Transformer? No!
The heads of Headmaster and the weapons of Targetmaster are not Transformers... they are simply Transformer accessories, or whatever fan dangled words you use to describe them. Next!

2/ How do gestalts count? In other words, does Devastator count as a Transformer? So if you have all the Constructicons and all the bits to form Devastator, do they count as six Constructicons or seven (including Devastator as the 7th)? Devastator is a licensed Transformer character (thus satisfying your 1st rule) and he transforms into the 6 Constructicons (thus satisfying your 2nd rule).

Does Devestator transform? No!
While Devestator's individual bits can transform from one mode to another, the combined gestalt can not. Next!

3/ How do you count combiners? The same as multi-in-1s? (I suspect that this would be the case - Reflector is essentially a combiner).

[Using reflector as the example]. Does each individual piece transform? No! So the individuals don't count. Is there a collective transformation? Yes, but only one... hence one count. The same situation reversed applies to Tidal Wave. Next!

4/ Do you count Happy Meal Transformers, most of which are licensed Transformers characters who can transform. And the Happy Meal Armada Transformers can interact with Mini-Cons and merge into gestalts!

I'm too familiar with these, but this isn't too tricky. Is it a Transformer? Yes (I think). Does it transform? Yes (I think). BY JOVE IT COUNTS! Next!

5/ Do you count candy and gum toys or model kits that can transform?

Again, you should be able to answer these questions much more capably than I, so why don't you try this one. Is it a Transformer? Does it transform?

6/ Do you count build-Transformers like Built-To-Rule? They're licensed and transform but are essentially Transformers Lego (just from a different brand).

Sing along now! Is it a Transformer? Yes! Does it transform? Yes!

7/ Similar question to Action Masters - what about other licensed "Transformers" characters who don't transform because they were never meant to transform? e.g.: Alpha Quintesson, Transmutate (who is a Cybertronian), Kicker, Gamede etc

Shame on you now! Does it transform? No! Next!

8/ Do you count Play Skool Transformers? The Go-Go-Go-Bots (aka Transformers Big Adventures) even had their own cartoon and comic series and game!

Yes + Yes = YES!