Corrections and comments from Eric - promo event. (Spoilers)

[FFN]

Uh... not really. Most animé-fans aren't even TF fans and are quite ignorant about Transformers overall - even in Japan animé fans have often asked me "Are Transformers Japanese or American?" My usual response is "both." But yeah, I find that most of these people are just unaware/ignorant rather.

I think you and Kyle were thrown by my Westerners thing. I meant the average non-fan-of-anything in the west and the western anime fanboy who is not a TF fan, not an East Vs West thing.

geez, all I wanted was proper (not assumed) clarification on the wiki article and the interview as both credit their subject with the designs alone.

It is very confusing (and silly) to credit the toy to a designer in an article without any explanation or without specifying what he did. At least it should be acknowledged that there were others involved in the design process.

It would have been much better if they had stated something like "He collaborated in the design of the following toys" than having a wiki entry that only credits a single designer and directly contradicts another Primary source, in this case the interview with the Australian Takara designer.

We went back and clarified on the articles to the best of our knowledge who they worked with and what they did if known. Don't blame us because there's almost a total lack of Takara details, since there's very little info on Takara designers and what they did, besides Ichikawa and Kubalsky.

[kup]

I think you and Kyle were thrown by my Westerners thing. I meant the average non-fan-of-anything in the west and the western anime fanboy who is not a TF fan, not an East Vs West thing.

We went back and clarified on the articles to the best of our knowledge who they worked with and what they did if known. Don't blame us because there's almost a total lack of Takara details, since there's very little info on Takara designers and what they did, besides Ichikawa and Kubalsky.

Then state something along those lines in the wiki please.

Tip: Don't be so defensive, this only started out as a question not an attack.

[griffin]

First up - Goktimus, don't criticise people for using valid abbreviations just because you don't like Bumblebee being called BB (when referring to topics that don't have anything to do with the BWII character). Not everyone has the time or patience to type out lengthy postings with no abbreviations. There is already a rule in the user guide about allowing people to use any comprehendable measurements on this board, so now I'll have to expand that to cover any comprehendable abbreviation as well.

Secondly - The issue about design specifics - The interview (and the tfwiki from it) are focused on Eric, not anyone else. We already know that it is a collaborative effort between Hasbro and Takara, and it was even mentioned in the report that Eric does concept designs, transformation ideas, etc, and someone at Takara does the engineering designs. There isn't any need to bog down the interview (and the wiki article from it) with that explination more than we already did. And it isn't very fair picking on Eric's entry, and not Alex's, who had the same generic listing of 'Designer', without more specific details that some prefer. Yes, it would be nice to know the specifics here on each and every designer, but for now, we may just have to do with generic 'designer' listed with anyone involved in the 'design process' of each figure.

The tfwiki isn't perfect, and is a fan project, so has to rely on any scraps of official info it can find. And since it is there for fans to use, it also can't be written up like a legal document just to prevent mis-interpretation.
Saying that a particular figure is creditted to one person, doesn't mean it isn't also creditted to others. TFs designs are a collaborative effort, and the wiki can only list those it knows about, or guess the roles they played *IF* there is isn't an official source for that info.
Unless you have an official source to correct an error or *significant* oversight at the tfwiki (or interview), don't criticise what is there.

I on the other hand DO have an official source, quoted here to defend the tfwiki on this:

it appears that some people are on the boards are confused about the TFWiki page updates. Particularly Board member KUP seems to have an issue with very specific clarification on the entry.

Feel free to post this info.

Paraphrasing - He states that the entry "Toys that Eric has designed" is misleading and implies that i have sole ownership over a design. He also gives a link to an interview with Alex Kubalsky in which he claims to have designed 2 particular toys that also appear on my list... KUP seems to want additional info to clarify what role i played in the design of these guys...

Explanation - as many of your board members know and have tried to explain, ALL TF toys are a collaboration between Takara and Hasbro. This means that every toy that is released by Hasbro has one Hasbro Designer and one Takara Designer involved per project. (the exceptions are obvious with Takara's exclusive projects like Alternity and Mickey Prime, etc.) Therefore it is not inaccurate for Alex and myself to both have credit for designing the same toy.

***Dirty Digger says that he'll chat with Alex when Alex returns to AU. I'm sure that you'll find Alex will have the same explanation as what i'm giving now.***

Now, perhaps KUP is onto something as far as what specific roles we all play in TF Design. I think it's a little tedious and probably anal retentive request... but All Hasbro Design roles could be described as Visionary, Conceptual Artists, Big Picture, Brand Managers... Likewise, all Takara Design Roles could be described as Creative Design/Engineers, Meticulous in their precision, Detail oriented, Model Developers. But no matter what labels you slap on something, it really doesn't do any justice to the collaborative efforts both teams put in. These labels create a generalization of our practice, and truth be told, all parties do much more than i just listed. The way our teams work together is a work of Art...

If you guys want, feel free to update my wiki site as you see fit, but note that there is nothing technically inaccurate about anything in the entry as it exists right now.

Yes, that's from Eric himself, via the people at Hasbro (I coloured some of it red for effect). As it would be expected, he has an interest in what people say about him from that Promo Event, both here and on the global forums.
Even though he names you Kup, he's not specifically having a go at you - he's actually 'personally' answering your query on the matter.
Obviously confusion on this issue could lead to erronous speculation and frustration between members, and he wanted to at least help clear it up as quickly as possible. He didn't have to, but it was nice of him to offer some light on the subject for you Kup, and the tfwiki team.

[dirge]

Secondly - Kup, you are making a big deal out of something that very little is officially known about.

Actually, kup has already spoken to me about this... he was really more confused about conflicting information than anything else. The wiki and interview were (on the surface) giving conflicting information, and kup was seeking clarification

[griffin]

Hopefully Eric was able to clear things up (for him and everyone else).

[Kyle]

I felt it was already quite clear before, but could also see how some of us could have got confused. Thanks for the clarification.

[griffin]

I've editted out part of my posting above that directly criticised Kup, as it wasn't necessary to confront him like that over something that may well have just been an oversight.
A fair bit of the rest of the posting could be removed as well, but it goes towards the point of the quoted text.

It has also been pointed out to me that I shouldn't be telling people NOT to criticise the tfwiki if there is a rational reason behind that criticism (like if the admin of the wiki edits out something that should be in it). That is a valid point, and I want to make it clear that I wasn't giving the impression that the tfwiki is off limits to critism.
My posting though, did mean to say that *if* the wiki's content is not being contradicted by an official source, it isn't fair to be criticising it over content that is otherwise considered the *only* available info.

[FFN]

Then state something along those lines in the wiki please.

Tip: Don't be so defensive, this only started out as a question not an attack.

We've already modified the credits to list people who worked with [whomever the article is about] for X toys, if known.

[jaydisc]

Wow! Great thread! How awesome of Eric to comment back!

Based on my understanding of what a wiki is, wouldn't it be better to contribute than to complain or critique?