How do you divide up the original Generation 1 era?

[GoktimusPrime]

(Following a discussion on yesterday's Skype session, it's been decided to restart this thread, now with a new option!)

As every TF fan and their dog knows, Generation 1 is an umbrella term that covers EVERYTHING from the Transformers franchise before it was rebranded as "Generation 2" around mid-1993. And before then the term "Generation 1" never existed, it only became an immediate fan term after G2 came out (similar to how The Great War was retroactively named "World War I" after the advent of WWII etc.), and Generation 1 was never an official term until 2000. But because Generation 1 covers such a broad area, I find that it's sometimes useful when talking with other fans to have designated periods of G1 - namely Early, Middle and Late G1. So for example, when talking about finishing off the characters for G1 MPs, I think that most fans would like to see Early G1 completed, and indeed the bulk of interest/demand in G1 MPs seems to draw from Early G1. To simply say that one wants "all of G1" done as MPs means that you literally want everyone from Gulf to Big Daddy to Rapido done as MPs. A few people might like this, but I'd say the majority of demand seems to come from the earlier years of Generation 1.

So how to divide G1? Here are three proposed models:
+ The Mathematical Model
+ The Popularity Model
+ The Age of Distinction Model

1: MATHEMATICAL MODEL

Super simple. We take the years of G1 and divide it by 3, and we tack the first few months of 1993 onto Late G1 since it wasn't even a complete year of production before the G2 rebranding anyway. And so it looks like this:

• Early G1 = first 3 years: 1984, 1985, 1986

• Middle G1 = middle 3 years: 1987, 1988, 1989

• Late G1 = final 3 years: 1990, 1991, 1992, plus early 1993 tacked on the end

There's no other reason behind this. It's just nice, cold, unbiased, logical maths.

2: POPULARITY MODEL

As the name implies, this is based on how popular Transformers was during the different stages of G1, and thus is divided like so...

• Early G1 = 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987
  This is the "golden age" of Generation 1, when Transformers was everywhere; toys, books, lunchboxes, clothes, stationery, comics etc. and these are also the years when the Sunbow cartoon was in production. We know that by 1987 toy sales had dwindled to the point that Hasbro cancelled the Sunbow cartoon after only 3 episodes of Season Four (The Rebirth). For me, it was also during 1987 that I started seeing fans stop collecting Transformers. <spits drink>

• Middle G1 = 1988, 1989, 1990
  The cartoon was gone in the West, but the toys and Marvel Comics were still going along well enough. But we know that by 1990 toy sales had dipped even further (not helped by a global recession). Hasbro and Takara both got desperate, with the former giving us Action Masters and the latter making almost all of their toys Autobots. This year also marked the end of the G1 cartoon in Japan with only 1 episode of Zone released directly to video. This would also be the final year that Transformers toys would be released in the U.S. market.

• Late G1 = 1991, 1992, Early-1993
  These are the years where, while Transformers toys were still being produced and sold in stores, Japan no longer had a cartoon to market them. In the West 1991 was the final year of the Marvel US comics, and 1992 would be the final year of the Marvel UK comics. This period was where we really saw Transformers petering out. In the early months of 1993 we did see new toys, but they had no supporting media. These toys would later be absorbed into the rebranded Generation 2 line (hence the fan nickname, "Generation 1.5").

3: AGE OF DISTINCTION MODEL

Similar to the Popularity Model, but it sub-divides the Early G1 years into two eras. Thus it is divided like so:

• Early G1
  + The Golden Age = 1984, 1985
  The absolute height of G1 popularity. This includes everything up to the end of the second season of the cartoon.
  + The Silver Age = 1986, 1987
  This was when popularity in Transformers was beginning to dwindle, particularly after the release of The Transformers The Movie (Dec '86 for AU). By 1987, slumped toy sales prompted Hasbro to cancel the Sunbow cartoon series. This was the year that I saw people begin to quit Transformers. I never knew anyone who quit Transformers in the Golden Age (84-85).

• Middle G1, The Bronze Age = 1988, 1989, 1990
  (See description from the Popularity Model)

• Late G1, The Dark Age = 1991, 1992, Early-1993
  (See description from the Popularity Model)

A reminder that this is not a discussion about "When did G1 end?" - because that factually ended around Mid-1993 when Hasbro launched Generation 2 ('cos if I wanted to debate facts, I'd go join the Flat Earth Society d: ). We're only talking about how we want to divide the original G1 period. (:

[dirge]

Age of Distinction for me. While I have love all for of G1 (and own all of the US G1 toys), there's a distinct "next level" reached by the Diaclone/Microman toys and their associated first two seasons of the cartoon.

Much of season 3 of the cartoon wasn't up to the same standard (not so much animation although there is that, but how well the characters were presented), and most of the better characterisations were of "Golden Age" bots such as Blitzwing in FFOD or First Aid & Swindle in The Ultimate Weapon. Rebirth was a giant toy add that barely stopped to tell a story.

The other factor after the Age of Distinction was that many of the alt modes really stopped being robots in DISGUISE. While Hot Rod's vehicle mode looks good... it's clearly not an Earth vehicle. Meanwhile Splashdown turns into a... thingo. It wasn't until the Micromasters in 89/90 that proper earth disguises came back in a big way.

[Lint]

G1 is a dynasty upon itself however it wasn't so long that it needs a breakdown by era. We've been able to have good discourse about G1 by just referring to particular years or toylines.

[GoktimusPrime]

Sometimes I find that I want to refer to a specific period of G1 in a way where referring to G1 as a whole isn't precise enough, but referring to year is too precise. Or sometimes it just helps to remove ambiguity.

e.g. G1 Constructicons
L-R: 1985 Scrapper, 1992 Scrapper, 1993 Scrapper, Encore Scrapper

I sometimes see sales posts for 1992 Constructicons advertised as "G2," even though they are NOT G2 Constructicons. Colour variations aside, the Late G1 Constructicons cannot combine to form Devastator, so let's say I were trying to collect G2 Devastator and I decided to purchase G2 Scavenger. I see an online sale for what's advertised as "G2 Scavenger" and I go ahead and purchase it, only to discover that my Scavenger is missing the connecting piece that attaches it to Hook. And if the Hook I purchased was Late G1, then it would be missing the connecting piece to attach to Bonecrusher. Oops, I now cannot form Devastator! The toys aren't necessarily broken, that's just how they were made. Being so similar in colour and appearance, it's understandable how some people might confuse the Late G1 Constructicons with the G2 Constructicons, but there is a substantial difference between the two sets. Even if you were to purchase the Late G1 Constructicons MOSC as a complete set, they don't come with any of the component accessories for Devastator either - no forearms, no fists, no chest plate, no head.

Other examples: Early G1 Barrage (1985) is an Insecticon, but Middle G1 Barrage (1990) is the front half of a lunar truck. Early or Middle G1 Afterburner (1987) is a motorbike, but Late G1 Afterburner (1991) is a Ferrari F40 sports car. Although both G1 Sky Highs are Middle G1 according to each of these proposed models, as the first was the Pretender released in 1988 and the second was the Micromaster released in 1990, so you're right, there are times when even dividing among these periods won't be precise enough and referring to explicit years of release will be required. It all depends.

At other times, you're right, you don't need to divide it at all.
e.g. I want to see all of G1 eventually done as CHUG toys. And by that I do mean all of G1. Because when some people say that, they don't mean it. But, mate... I don't just want Early G1 stuff like Venom, Chop Shop and Hubcap... I also want every Middle G1 TF done as CHUGs like the Sparkabots and Triggercons! I want the rest of the Autobot Targetmasters done as CHUGs (we've only ever had Hot Rod and Scoop done (also Blurr and Kup if you count TR/LG)). I was stoked to get TR Quake and Siege Spinister! I also want all of Late G1 done as CHUGs too, including the Motorvators, Action Master Elites (maybe not a Titan Class Omega Spreem ) and Lightformers. I preordered the LGEX Big Powered set, jumped on TR Overlord (only to later replace it with LG Overlord), and if they ever redecoed CW Defensor and Bruticus as CHUG Guard City and Battle Gaia respectively - I'd buy them in a heartbeat! So yeah, when I say that I want all of G1 done as CHUGs, I literally mean all of G1. Bring on CHUG Time Warrior!

But there are other times when I feel the need for the division.
e.g. I'm mostly interested in Early G1 for MPs, and also Early G1 seems to be what sells for G1 MPs.
The only Middle G1 MP they've ever done was Star Sabre, and even then, it was the result of a fan's choice poll in 2013. Whereas Early G1 you can more or less release an MP toy and be guaranteed to sell it. Star Sabre is the only Middle G1 MP I own, and even then it was a freebie. :/ They've never made an MP toy of any Late G1 characters, and even I doubt that I'd buy any of them. I love Deftwing, but I wouldn't buy a Masterpiece Deftwing.
"But they made an MP of Targetmaster Hot Rod, and he's Middle G1!"
Well that depends on what you define as "Middle G1," doesn't it? (and thus the purpose of this poll!) If you go by the Mathematical Model, then yes, he's Middle G1. But by the Popularity Model he's Early G1, and by the Age of Distinction Model he's an Early G1 Silver Age character.

And that's the other thing, if you were to say, "I'd buy any of the Early G1 Autobot Cars if they were made as MPs"
By the Mathematical Model this includes all of the Diaclone Cars from the first two years but also includes Hot Rod, Kup and Blurr. As dirge alluded to, they're a different flavour from the Diaclone Cars because they're futuristic/fantasy vehicles rather than being based on licensed real life vehicles. Similarly this model includes Scourge and Cyclonus as part of the Decepticon Jets.
The Popularity Model is the same as above but also includes 1987. So now suddenly your Autobot Cars include the likes of Targetmaster Hot Rod (which has been done), but also Targetmaster Blurr, Pointblank, Sureshot etc., and I'm not sure if people who'd happily buy MP Trailbreaker, Hoist, Mirage, Jazz etc. would be equally enthused to buy MP Targetmaster Kup, Crosshairs etc.
By the Age of Distinction Model you could say, "I only want to collect all of the Early G1 Golden Age Autobot Cars as MPs." This stops at 1985 so it means that you're only interested in the "Diaclone Cars." You want MP Jazz, Trailbreaker, Hoist, Mirage etc., but you wouldn't go so far as to want an MP Kup or Pointblank. You've purchased MP Starscream, Thundercracker, Skywarp and the Coneheads, but you may not want an MP Cyclonus and Scourge.

It all depends - we all have different criteria and the purpose of this poll is to create a general consensus.

[Trent]

What happened to the other thread? I can’t find it.

If this is a thing that the board is supporting, then where was the discussion about what the poll options would be? Gok is referring to these as if this will be an accepted system on this site moving forward so what if one doesn’t agree with any of the 3 options presented? Tough luck?

Quite frankly I think this is a solution looking for a problem that doesn’t exist.

[UltraMarginal]

Ditto on 'wheres the original thread'? Do peoples comments on there no longer apply?

If so, I'll reiterate.
Why is this really a discussion, the last thread only had a handful of people interested, once this runs its course in a few days time will you then expect everyone you interact with online, here and elsewhere to adhere, to one of the systems mentioned above? Even if they've never been to this forum? let alone interacted with this thread? Without a significant input from here, Seibertron, TFW2005, all the other forums and myriad of facebook groups even running a poll like this is no more than trivial interest, expecting anyone to adhere to whatever the result turns out to be is pure egotism.

If you really want to create a system to define eras of G1, you should have a thread like this on all the other forums and face book groups but first you should be asking each of those communities for their opinions, getting a feel for what the community as a whole even wants, then put a poll together from the most popular ideas put forward. Otherwise it has no real peer reviewed validity.

[GoktimusPrime]

Ditto on 'wheres the original thread'? Do peoples comments on there no longer apply?

As I said...

"(Following a discussion on yesterday's Skype session, it's been decided to restart this thread, now with a new option!)

During the Skype session I was asked by people, including a moderator, to redo the thread. There was a fairly lengthy discussion about it and how a new option should be created to better represent people's views. The old options still there, so you are welcome and encouraged to just recast your vote; it's just that a new third option was included following the weekly Saturday Skype meeting.

This was not originally my idea, but others insisted.

If so, I'll reiterate.
Why is this really a discussion, the last thread only had a handful of people interested, once this runs its course in a few days time will you then expect everyone you interact with online, here and elsewhere to adhere, to one of the systems mentioned above? Even if they've never been to this forum? let alone interacted with this thread? Without a significant input from here, Seibertron, TFW2005, all the other forums and myriad of facebook groups even running a poll like this is no more than trivial interest, expecting anyone to adhere to whatever the result turns out to be is pure egotism.

If you really want to create a system to define eras of G1, you should have a thread like this on all the other forums and face book groups but first you should be asking each of those communities for their opinions, getting a feel for what the community as a whole even wants, then put a poll together from the most popular ideas put forward. Otherwise it has no real peer reviewed validity.

I only interact here, on Facebook and now Skype these days. But you and others are MORE than welcome to replicate this poll on as many other fora as you like. I did the same thing during the UCM polls - posted across multiple fora covering fans from around the world in multiple languages too. But that was in the mid-2000s when I had a wider presence across multiple groups. These days I'm not active on nearly as many fora as I used to be, but I would absolutely love for you or anyone else to create similar polls on the groups that you interact with and share the results with me. Sounds like a great idea!

[UltraMarginal]

I was under the impression that threads were never deleted here, as a record of what has happened.

So will you be insisting that the people here and other places you do interact submit to your methodology for labeling eras of G1?

[Paulbot]

I proposed a different breakdown. One that’s been deleted now..?

[Unicran]

Must be a slow, uneventful day...

What happened to the other thread? I can’t find it.

Ditto on 'wheres the original thread'? Do peoples comments on there no longer apply?

Diddly ditto. By all means lock the previous thread & start a new one. But why remove the old thread. Other members have added their comments including myself.

But hey, I’m just a Basic member.