Transformers questions by newbies, and not-so-newbies

[GoktimusPrime]

The actual English name on the packaging is Gregevor, which I think is meant to be pronounced Gre-jee-ver,

Yep, that's pretty close. Say "Gree-jee-var." (グリジバー)

(so maybe that 2000 Car Robots toy was supposed to be pronounced like Gregevor, instead of Greenjeeper... but us English-speeking fans just picked an English name that makes more sense - like people calling the Gen1 Dezarus toy as Deathsaurus.

Not quite. Here's the thing...

GREGEVOR

* The first G is a 'hard G' as in words like good, get, golf, griffin, great etc.
* The second G is a 'soft G' as in words like agent, gem, edge, digital, giraffe, logic etc.
So you would pronounce the G's in Gregevor in the same way that you would pronounce both G's in the English word Garage.
* The first E is actually pronounced as a "short I" as in grip, it, giggle etc. It's not ideal having this vowel being spelt with an "E", but this is because the Roman alphabet is essentially little more than ornamental on Japanese packaging.
* The second E is a 'long E' as in words like meet, green, meat, feature, creation etc. I personally would've Romanised it with "EE," but again, most Japanese audiences don't give a sheet.
* VOR may be pronounced as "VAR" (rhyming with car), or as "VER" (rhyming with sir). Again the use of the 'O' syllable is arguably misleading.

So IMHO the following would be more accurate Romanisations of the グリジバー (Gregevor):
+ Grijeevar
+ Grijeebar (Japanese makes no distinction between 'b' and 'v')
+ Grijeever (Japanese makes no distinction between '~er' and '~ar')
+ Grijeeber
+ Grijeebre

Now of course, unlike Japanese, English is a stress timed language, but I would say that an approximated stress for Grijeevar would be on the final syllable, similar to the English word 'personnel' (per-son-NEL); so it's like, gri-jee-VER. 'Gregevor' isn't a great spelling for this name, as it's phonetically misleading, but it is now the official spelling. And this certainly isn't the first time that Takara has used ambiguous or confusing spelling for Japanese names. 1988's Cab's (キャブ) name is officially spelt as "Carb" (カーブ) on the packaging, 1989's Jalgar (ジャルガー) is "Jallguar" (ジャルグアー/ジャルグワー) etc. But it's because most Japanese people don't pay attention to the Romanisation; it's just there to look exotic.

Hasbro sometimes does the same thing too with Japanese text. For example:
Which of the following is the correct Japanese word for "Masterpiece"? (no cheating!)

(A) 創作
(B) 偵竹
(C) 傑作
(D) I don't care
If you answered "D", then that's pretty much how most people in Japan feel about Roman letters and English words on their packaging etc.

"Deathzaras" is an acceptable adaptation of "Deszaras" (desuzarasu; デスザラス) because Japanese people render the 'soft TH' in English as 's' anyway. e.g. Death Note is called desu-nooto (デスノート) in Japanese. I used to Romanise Deszaras as "Death Thalas" - 'thalas' being the Greek word for 'ocean' (θάλασσα) and the 'hard TH' is rendered as 'z' in Japanese (e.g. "The Headmasters = 'za heddomasutaazu' [ザ☆ヘッドマースターズ])... buuut of course, 'thalas' in Greek is spelt with a soft TH (Theta) and not a hard TH (Delta). So I go with "Deathzaras"... whatever the hell a 'zaras' is.

[griffin]

So what you're saying is that if TakaraTomy are consistent with the Katakana between toys of the same character but alter or change the English printed name... we should ignore the English name and list/archive/refer to the toy by the actual translated Katakana? (which as you say, is just there to be exotic to the Japanese customers)

That would certainly make it easier in the long term... but probably won't look as nice to westerners if we use the translated katakana instead of the word that the katakana is aiming for. (like konboi being called Convoy by Westerners)

[BigTransformerTrev]

The names Rollbar and Greenjeeper were listed by some initial sources because this toy was a homage too the 2000 Car Robots toy, who was called Greenjeeper by Hasbro fans... that was the same mould as the Hasbro RID Rollbar toy. The actual English name on the packaging is Gregevor, which I think is meant to be pronounced Gre-jee-ver, to be similar to the Greenjeeper from the 2000 Car Robots line, as the Japanese printed name is identical to the Car Robots toy packaging. (so maybe that 2000 Car Robots toy was supposed to be pronounced like Gregevor, instead of Greenjeeper... but us English-speeking fans just picked an English name that makes more sense - like people calling the Gen1 Dezarus toy as Deathsaurus.

Cool! Thanks very much for the info

Might put off buying them until tomorrow - think I've already blown my TF budget for today

[GoktimusPrime]

So what you're saying is that if TakaraTomy are consistent with the Katakana between toys of the same character but alter or change the English printed name... we should ignore the English name and list/archive/refer to the toy by the actual translated Katakana? (which as you say, is just there to be exotic to the Japanese customers)

That would certainly make it easier in the long term... but probably won't look as nice to westerners if we use the translated katakana instead of the word that the katakana is aiming for. (like konboi being called Convoy by Westerners)

I would say look at the Katakana and deduce what it's intended to mean or a more effectual way of spelling it. And yeah, if it means overriding the official spelling provided by Takara(TOMY), then so be it.
TFwiki does this sometimes. e.g.:

• Cab; the official spelling on the toy packaging is "Carb," and the tfwiki page does mention this in the description of the toy, but otherwise they use spelling "Cab," as it is a more accurate transcription of the way that it's written in Katakana.

• Minerva; the official spelling from the toy box is "Minelba" (because Japanese doesn't differentiate 'l' and 'r' nor 'b' and 'v'). But of course, ミネルバ (mineruba) is a common way of writing the name of the Roman goddess 'Minerva' in Japanese*, so TFwiki has used the correct original Latin spelling.

Translating isn't just about directly converting things from one language to another (that's why online translators aren't very good); it's about interpreting the meaning and intention of what the author is wanting to say and then adapting it for context, purpose and audience.

---------------------------------------
* As it is pronounced in Vulgar Latin. The Classical Latin form (preferred by Japanese scholars) is ミネルウァ (mineruWa); because the Romans pronounced 'v' as 'w' (but still spelt it with 'v'. The letter W didn't exist until around the 14th Century, and even then, it evolved as 2 u's (or 2 V's in uppercase) being joined together (VV, uu), hence why it's called "double-U."

[BigTransformerTrev]

Cool! Thanks very much for the info

Might put off buying them until tomorrow - think I've already blown my TF budget for today

Couldn't wait so ordered tonight. Unfortunately HLJ had a limit of one per customer so I had to get one for US$16.99 from them and the 2nd from BBTS for US$26.99

[prjkt]

Was this silly?

Wanted Gen. Legends Nemesis Prime for the targetmaster Spinister to give to Timelines Spinister just because. Also, after fiddling with Huffer, I've decided it's a pretty good mould.

BBTS had them for US$11.99.

Or with Cliffjumper and his targetmaster for US$14.99.

So even though I don't really want/need Cliffjumper (happy with GDO Cliff as my classics version) is spent the extra US$3.

So I repeat, was this silly?

[UltimateGalvatron]

well even if you don't open it you can always sell it on. I believe Cliff didn't get released in Australia so you can probably get $10-$15 for it.

[prjkt]

You make a good point there. Also still have an extra MOSC Legenda Tailgate, and MOSC Legends Windcharger and Thundercracker I'm not convinced on yet too... (Damn buying whole waves...)

[DELTAprime]

Speaking of Japanese stuff. We know that there are going to be a total of five UW releases because of the interview with TF Yuki. Are there any rumors going around the international sites as to whats going to happen with the non-G1 CW stuff from a TT release point of view?

I'm wondering about Voy Optimus and the Masquerade Autobots, Voy Cyclonus and Galvatronus parts, and the non-G1 members of Superion, Menasor, Defensor and whoever IDW/Hasbro shoehorn into Bruticus.

I want to get all the CW characters, but don't want to buy the expensive local Hasbro versions only to find TT is releasing them later.

[Paulbot]

I think we can only speculate at this stage and look at what they did with previous series.

TakTomy tend to use any Hasbro mold that exists but you can't always predict what they'll do with it or where. Look at Generations Scoop and Beast Hunters Knock Out now turning up in their RID line. They used IDW Generations Megatron, but skipped his retool. And they've not used either Skids or Crosscut yet.

I think the non-G1 members of the combiners are unlikely to turn up over there, since they appear to be not much more than repaints. The Voyagers might get used, the remolds seem a bit more substantial, but I could imagine them getting skipped at this point or even being other characters.