Cybertron was good, animated was ok. Everything after, especially rid I don't like.
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Cybertron was good, animated was ok. Everything after, especially rid I don't like.
Code:O o _ / -------------------------------- | IMMA FIRIN MA LAZAR!!! \_--------------------------------
Rank 8 - Deluxe Member
you didnt like prime?Originally Posted by kup
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I liked Prime, but Beast Wars was way better, and I agree that it was the last great Transformers cartoon. Prime didn't have much character development throughout most of its run, and what limited character development that it did have happened towards the latter part of the series in relative isolation (as opposed to being a continual thing throughout the story). Stories are driven by the journey of the protagonist(s) and the isolated characterisations in Prime made these journeys feel more like teleportation rather than an actual voyage. Bumblebee was the immature prat throughout most of the series until he falls into a pool of goop, oops, now he's mature and he can talk. Megatron is totally maniacal until he's liberated from Unicron, oops, now he's become a pacifist and has dissolved the Decepticon faction and is walking away from everything.
Most of the other characters remain stagnant throughout the series, including Optimus Prime. He starts off as being a flawless saviour archetype and in the end of Predacon Rising he is the flawless saviour archetype. He's gone from Point A to Point A, in other words, he hasn't made any emotional journey. He's a walking caricature who speaks in quotations rather than a character. He has the emotional range of Kristen Stewart.
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I don't know about all that i just thought it was a cool cartoon.I liked Prime, but Beast Wars was way better, and I agree that it was the last great Transformers cartoon. Prime didn't have much character development throughout most of its run, and what limited character development that it did have happened towards the latter part of the series in relative isolation (as opposed to being a continual thing throughout the story). Stories are driven by the journey of the protagonist(s) and the isolated characterisations in Prime made these journeys feel more like teleportation rather than an actual voyage. Bumblebee was the immature prat throughout most of the series until he falls into a pool of goop, oops, now he's mature and he can talk. Megatron is totally maniacal until he's liberated from Unicron, oops, now he's become a pacifist and has dissolved the Decepticon faction and is walking away from everything.
Most of the other characters remain stagnant throughout the series, including Optimus Prime. He starts off as being a flawless saviour archetype and in the end of Predacon Rising he is the flawless saviour archetype. He's gone from Point A to Point A, in other words, he hasn't made any emotional journey. He's a walking caricature who speaks in quotations rather than a character. He has the emotional range of Kristen Stewart.
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I disagree, I thought Prime had a lot of character development, especially Starscream. I actually enjoyed the human relationships with the bots which is a first for me. When Bee got his voice back and then called Raf... 'shivers'. Predaking was also another character that went through a massive change, literally.
I love Beast Wars, it is my favourite TF cartoon, but Prime is a close 2nd.
I do agree with Goki in regards to Optimus... he did go from super warrior to super warrior, but I am interested to know what might you have changed to change the character?
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Really? Starscream began as a selfish and amoral fiend to becoming, at the end of Predacon Rising, a selfish and amoral fiend. His alliances shifted as they suited him, but they've always been self motivated. Shifting allegiance is not the same as change in character.
Bumblebee's change in character was extrinsically induced (i.e. he fell into a Cosmic MacGuffin) rather than being intrinsically induced through the sum of his experiences. Smokescreen is probably one character in Prime who went through intrinsic character change. As far as the humans are concerned, Jack underwent the greatest change, followed by Raf and then Miko. But this change, especially for Miko, was very slow. She spent the first two seasons being a cheesy stereotype until finally in Season 3 she started showing signs of maturity.
Predaking had shifts in allegiances due to changes in circumstances, but his core persona never changed. He only served Megatron when he thought that it was in the best interest of the Predacon cause, but when he discovered that it wasn't (especially when he learnt that Megatron had ordered the genocide of his fellow Predacons), that is when Predaking left the Decepticons. It wasn't because he had a change of heart but because he realised that he had been deceived and fighting for Megatron under false pretenses.
I don't dislike Prime, I do quite like it. I see it as the G1 cartoon of our time, because the G1 cartoon was really full of caricatures rather than characters (the G1 comics on the other hand gave us proper characters). So TF Prime is really no worse than G1, and in all honesty, I think that Prime is actually much better written than the G1 cartoon. It's not nearly as camp (come on, G1 gave us an episode where the Decepticons turned the Autobots evil by recharging them with evil fuel!).
I would be inclined to agree with this ranking.
There are all sorts of way you can do it, but basically you need to give Optimus Prime some kind of flaw or imperfection for him to improve and grow upon as a character. When you make a character an essentially perfect Messiah-like archetype, then it becomes very one dimensional as there's no room for any character growth.
Let's look at G1 comic Optimus Prime. He was more rash in his youth as a lower ranking officer, with a poor decision resulting in the death of Boltax and the loss of the Underbase from Cybertron. The Underbase eventually super-powered Starscream who then slaughtered many, many Cybertronians, including lots of Autobots. Prowl died twice cos wibbly wobbly timey wimey.Optimus Prime also blames himself for bringing the Cybertronians' war to Earth (because he was the one who threw the switched that crashed the Ark onto Earth), resulting in further harm and destruction to the life forms of Earth - human, animals, plants and even environmental destruction. All of this weighed heavily on Prime's conscience, leaving him riddled with issues of guilt. Optimus Prime had become a very strong character by the time he assumed supreme executive command of the Autobots, but this strength would later prove to be a weakness. In the early stages of the war it was Prime's unwavering determination to never surrender that allowed him and his Autobots to do what the Council of Elders had long failed to do -- retake occupied/conquered City States back from the Decepticons. We know that Iacon would've fallen if not for Prime, and indeed after Prime left Cybertron, Iacon did fall to the Decepticon warlord Trannis (who was then succeeded by Straxus). The entire Council was executed except for Xaaron who managed to flee underground (leading the Autobot resistance and forming the Wreckers). But it was Powermaster Optimus Prime who realised that this indomitable will had become a liability. In order for the Cybertronians to survive the oncoming approach of Unicron he knew that he would have to swallow his pride and have himself and the Autobots under his command to surrender to the Decepticons. And this even prompted change in Scorponok's character, and the two former enemies became great allies as they fought side by side against the Chaos Bringer. Optimus Prime cradling a dying Scorponok and then mourning over his passing remains one of the single most powerful moments from G1. Just that long distance silhouette of Prime huddled over Scorponok's corpse in silent despair. The other Decepticons were busy fighting alongside the Autobots, Optimus Prime was the only one there to mourn the loss of a great and courageous Decepticon leader whom he considered a friend in the end. The G1 comics were cancelled by Hasbro shortly after this, so there wasn't much time for further character development as Marvel were pushed to introduce new toys (i.e. Action Masters) and quickly wrap things up. G2 saw a little more development in Optimus Prime, we see a first glance into how Prime laments over how he and Megatron are enemies and how great it could be if they could be allies. This demonstrated a substantial level of empathy for one's mortal enemy, continuing on from what Prime experienced with Scorponok. Optimus Prime's character has changed based on the sum of his experiences. G2 again was abruptly cancelled by Hasbro and Marvel again had to quickly wrap things up (and even joking about how it was happening again with the character name "Jhiaxus" = "gee, axe us").
I don't expect any new Optimus Prime to be a copy of G1 comic Optimus Prime, but simply to have some form of journey where his experiences shape his character. We've also seen this with IDW Optimus Prime and many other IDW Transformers. It's an entirely different journey from Generation 1, but it's still enjoyable because the journey is there and is still ongoing. It is this form of characterisation which gives a story substance and allows it to thrive. Bear in mind that the G1 comics (1984-92) outlasted the G1 cartoon (1984-87), and the IDW comics (2005-present) has now outrun the entire G1 franchise! (1984~early-1993)
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No. I gave it a really good try but it was so frustrating to watch it episode per episode. First season was horrible and I stopped watching just before the season finale as I couldn't go on. I was then told that the season finale was good so I decided to finish of the season to see it but it was just garbage to me so I had no further motivation.
I actually find Animated more watchable than Prime by a long shot despite it also having a terrible first season but you actually see some improvements as things go on despite that as well as character progression - I don't see any of that in Prime. A frustration with Prime was also how characters would not learn from their mistakes despite terrible consequences, specially that stupid hyperactive girl. They had no reason whatsoever to have those kids hanging around and they were far more trouble than they were worth. That as well as a terribly weak plot that had nothing interesting for me. I could tell that even as a kid I would have disliked it.
The way I see it - This is how it goes with cartoons:
1st Sunbow G1 - Only first as this is the cartoon that started it although it is very cheesy by today's standards but can still be enjoyable. Several episodes were good with a unique take even if sometimes it was a bit far off.
2nd Beast Wars - Pretty much the absolute best of all Transformers cartoons - Proper character developments, story arcs that pay off, cool cameos and references, aims at both adults and kids without dumbing things down or adding too frustrating characters.. I am only placing it second because for lack of a better word, it is still a spin of show from G1 to the point that they share the same continuity. Kind of how Star Trek Next Genertation is technically better than TOS but TOS is what started it all.
3rd Animated By a considerable distance after 2nd, I place Animated in this catergory. It has a bad 1st Season but considerably improves in the 2nd and 3rd seasons.
4th would probably be RID/Cybertron at about the same.
5th Armada only because it actually has a good end of series story arc.
The rest are just absolute rubbish and I place them in the same pile which includes Prime, Energon, etc.
Rank 8 - Deluxe Member
There was potential for Optimus to have character development in Transformers Prime but the writers seemed to isolate his character and make him cold and flat as a consequence.
If they imbued some of the elements from G1 Optimus - the desire to be not only a leader but comrade and friends with your soldiers; the curiosity to understand humanity ... especially from a child's eyes. In fact, if they had taken the opportunity for Optimus to reflect on how distant he had become due to the burdens of leadership and time... the Orion Pax storyline would have led nicely into exploring that.
Optimus's fatal flaw (excluding movies) is always the unwillingness to take ANY life and I would have loved to see the show confront that more; give him more personal interaction where we get to see how he FEELS and reacts and grows as a character because of that. There were ample situations they could have done this but chose not to.
As much as I dislike RID2015 there was a hint of Optimus getting a bit more personality/humanity/reality check when he was with Windblade (when he wasn't giving ridiculously pompous speeches). I would have liked to see them continue along that path of the two characters discovering themselves thanks to each others flaws and insights. I see massive potential with their pairing to create a father-daughter/teacher-mentor relationship that I can see kids liking. My daughter LOVED seeing Windblade and Optimus working together.
Ultimately Megatron will ALWAYS win because of Optimus unwilling to sacrifice innocent lives but maybe that could change too if they actually did try to give Optimus a character arc where he has to sacrifice something or someone.
Interesting to note as a complete side: At Cybertroncon they had a video that showed the evolution of Transformers cartoons over time. When Transformers Prime came on the Chinese audience cheered loudly and there were calls of "bring Transformers Prime back!" much to the surprise of the head of Transformers media so the show definitely had some popularity behind it.
There were also lesser cheers for G1, Beast Wars and Animated.
Personally, if I could get Transformers Prime animation with Beast Wars storylines and G1 personalities that would be my idea of a great Transformers show.
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I really enjoyed TF Prime, I'd rate it as possibly the most well rounded of any of the Transformers series, there were great stories, good characterisation, I liked that Miko didn't learn from her mistakes, that in itself is a reflection of a mid teen with a few life issues. If she had straight away learned not to be brash and irresponsible, or even over the first season that would have been so inhuman. And visually it was outstanding.
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I do agree that the animation in Prime was fantastic, especially considering that their workforce was significantly reduced after the 2011 earthquake/tsunami.But I find it difficult to believe that it's the same anime studio that's animated the current Robots In Disguise series, because I find the animation in that to be far below what we saw in Prime. Although it could very well be to having a smaller animation budget from Hasbro... I don't know.
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