I need to vent!

[BigTransformerTrev]

The American government used the white hot rage the world felt after 9/11 to justify the Afghanistan/Iraq invasion and by telling us that Iraq had WMDs. The lessons we have learned from that (for those that choose to learn them) are that action needs to be taken with careful, well thought out planning, not anger. Especially when we are dealing with countries. All that will happen now is some politician will use the people's emotion to push an agenda that in normal times would most likely be viewed with scepticism and caution.

Keep in mind, for those of you who do not fully understand what ISIL/ISIS is, is that it is the result of the USA/western worlds incredibly, and I mean INCREDIBLY bad planning and agenda pushing.

To be fair, Afghanistan was the base of operations of exported terrorists during that time and needed to be dealt with... and Bush's advisors told him that, but he wanted revenge on Iraq (first) over the unfinished business his father Bush Senior did during his time in office.
And Hussein needed to go, like Assad, but faking the reason for pulling the trigger on an invasion was unnecessary when there was already enough on Hussein to indict him on war crimes (against his own people and Kuwait).
It was simply abuse of power by Bush Junior that resulted in the Iraq invasion after September 11... instead of going to Afghanistan where the son of the Bush's family friends (the Bin Ladens) was located.

And it seems that America's politicians & military just don't learn. They rush in because they think they are the most powerful nation, but don't pre-plan what to do later.
Vietnam - invaded and pulled out leaving a vacuum of power for the Communist Regime to move in and slaughter western supporters.
Cuba - attempted invasion resulting in cementing a dictator... then blockading the country for their own mistake.
Iran - backed Iraq to go to war with Iran, resulting in the creation of an extreme religious state.
Iraq - Bush faked the WMD and used America's military to fight daddies unfinished war, creating a vacuum of power that was filled by extremists.
Palestine - The heavily religious America support the creation of a Jewish state in 1948, oppressing the native Arab/Muslim people and generate hostilities with neighbouring countries, creating a regional environment of hatred over the West.
Libya - Supported opposition groups and protected them with no-fly zones, to oust the Gadaffi regime without making sure that a stable government could fill the void.
Syria - Supported opposition groups in an attempt to oust Assad, but creating large parts of the country without stable government, creating a safehaven for terrorist groups.

Not even remotely going to try to defend the many stupid actions of the western nations, however while they may explain the actions of IS, it doesn't excuse them

It's impossible to say that America deserves retaliation because the citizens and soldiers are the ones who suffer... instead of the egotistical politicians who order military operations from the comfort of their oval office, without caring about the consequences of their actions.

Exactly

[Trent]

Not even remotely going to try to defend the many stupid actions of the western nations, however while they may explain the actions of IS, it doesn't excuse them

Could you please clarify what part of my discussion gives you the impression that I am excusing these actions?

[GoktimusPrime]

Guh... there's a meme floating around now claiming that the same girl who was at the Sandy Hooks shooting was also at other shootings like the Boston Marathon bombing and now the Paris attacks. If you happen to see this crop up on your social media feed, please don't like/share it because it's a freakin' hoax.

[UltimateGalvatron]

Guh... there's a meme floating around now claiming that the same girl who was at the Sandy Hooks shooting was also at other shootings like the Boston Marathon bombing and now the Paris attacks. If you happen to see this crop up on your social media feed, please don't like/share it because it's a freakin' hoax.

I have posted on my Facebook and Instagram about this, warning them they are fakes etc.
Thank you

[BigTransformerTrev]

Could you please clarify what part of my discussion gives you the impression that I am excusing these actions?

Didn't say you were mate, I was making a point, not a counter argument. Sorry if I gave an impression otherwise big fella, I know you wouldn't excuse this kinda stuff

[Trent]

Didn't say you were mate, I was making a point, not a counter argument. Sorry if I gave an impression otherwise big fella, I know you wouldn't excuse this kinda stuff

All good. I was in a mood yesterday

And it seems like I was right. I have only caught snippets of news in the last few days but I heard that France has already begun "retaliation strikes" against IS targets with more promised. What that is is the French President trying to keep voters happy and be "seen" to be doing something rather than taking a calm, measured approach.

I mean, America bombed the crap out of Afghanistan after 9/11 and that worked? Right?

[jazzcomp]

I guess I have to ask, what is the alternative?

[griffin]

Some advocate diplomacy (talking), but that only works with rational leaders of an established nation.
When you have a rogue nation or a group of people who are not fighting for a recognised country (like IS, Al Qaeda, separatist groups fighting to overthrow a government, etc), there is no rationality, compromise or element of trust.
IS/Daish has the primary goal of eradicating all non-believers in the entire world, either by converting them to Islam or killing anyone who won't convert, because that's their misguided interpretation of Islam. (800 years ago some Christian leaders had the same misguided interpretation of their own religion, believing it was their duty to wipe out the inhabitants of the middle east to create their own holy land, and hold inquisitions to make sure the people were dedicated to the faith... but that was a different time, called the Dark Ages for a reason, and the mainstream Christian religions are not like that anymore - they now focus more on preaching love and forgiveness over fear and punishment)

Others advocate staying out of the conflict because it is not in our part of the world, but as we've seen already, people from all over the world are being indoctrinated to either fly there to fight or carry out acts of aggression in their home country. And it will get a lot worse if IS are left to establish a safehaven area or are given their own lands (country) to act as their base of operations to carry out their primary objective - to eradicate all non-believers.

War is never a good thing, but anti-war advocates and protest crowds need to differentiate between an opponent that can be reasoned with to prevent conflict (like the cold war preventing a nuclear war), from an opponent who is willing to die before they compromise, surrender or cease hostilities (like these state-less groups).

[BigTransformerTrev]

Some advocate diplomacy (talking), but that only works with rational leaders of an established nation.
When you have a rogue nation or a group of people who are not fighting for a recognised country (like IS, Al Qaeda, separatist groups fighting to overthrow a government, etc), there is no rationality, compromise or element of trust.
IS/Daish has the primary goal of eradicating all non-believers in the entire world, either by converting them to Islam or killing anyone who won't convert, because that's their misguided interpretation of Islam. (800 years ago some Christian leaders had the same misguided interpretation of their own religion, believing it was their duty to wipe out the inhabitants of the middle east to create their own holy land, and hold inquisitions to make sure the people were dedicated to the faith... but that was a different time, called the Dark Ages for a reason, and the mainstream Christian religions are not like that anymore - they now focus more on preaching love and forgiveness over fear and punishment)

Others advocate staying out of the conflict because it is not in our part of the world, but as we've seen already, people from all over the world are being indoctrinated to either fly there to fight or carry out acts of aggression in their home country. And it will get a lot worse if IS are left to establish a safehaven area or are given their own lands (country) to act as their base of operations to carry out their primary objective - to eradicate all non-believers.

War is never a good thing, but anti-war advocates and protest crowds need to differentiate between an opponent that can be reasoned with to prevent conflict (like the cold war preventing a nuclear war), from an opponent who is willing to die before they compromise, surrender or cease hostilities (like these state-less groups).

We discussed all this as a class this morning and I had one student who could just not get it. When I likened IS to ther Joker in 'The Dark Night' - as in someone with their own agenda who can't be reasoned with, bullied, bought or bribed - the light of understanding went on in his eyes.