Henkei VS Hasbro

[1orion2many]

You can try TFU.info they are pretty useful for U.S and some Japanese only items

[GoktimusPrime]

When it comes to G1, G2 and Machine Wars Transformers I would recommend Transformers Generations, or Transformers Generations Deluxe. I call it the Transformers Bible.

Check this link out for more Transformers guide books. In terms of web sites TFU.info is quite useful.

[Paulbot]

Just on another question guys, where is the best visual guide for TF products?

There's also a very good book (in English) for G1 called Cybertronian, check out heroicdecepticon's comments:
http://heroicdecepticon.blogspot.com...-dlin-and.html

[griffin]

I was wondering is there a legal agreement between Takara and Hasbro that "the more G1 accurate paint always belongs to Takara"?

The only arrangement they have is to try not to have an exact identical colour scheme to an exclusive toy done by the other one.
Other than that, for toys released by both companies - TT is often developing their product range after Hasbro, so have the flexability of changing colours or items in their release, based on the retail price and target demographic in their own market (Japan).

Both Henkei and Universe toys are made in the same factory with two production lines. Hasbro prefers to spend less on manufacturing costs for maximum profit while the Japanese have more of an emphasis on product quality and costumer satisfaction.

As noted by Jhiaxus, the retail (and as such wholesale) price of the same figure in both US and JP markets, dictate how much each respective company can spend on the product (like packaging, number of paint apps, chrome, pack-in extras, etc), to appeal to their different target demographics.
If both products were being released from the warehouse at the same wholesale price (which is unlikely based on their respective retail prices), then it would be fair to compare each product based on other factors.
Hasbro's target demographic is for the younger, 'general' age group, so need to make a cheaper product to be 'better value' to more kids and parents. TT's target is more 'niche', with older kids and committed collectors in mind, so need to spend more on the look of their product and packaging to entice the more discerning pallet - and as such, passes on that expense with a higher retail price.
Good or bad, Hasbro's 'cheaper' (in price and quality) approach is giving the TFs Brand a better long-term viability and outlook than TT. If anything, if Hasbro wasn't generating as much money and recognition for the Brand, would TT be investing into new product at all? Animated, Movie-verse, Masterpiece, Henkei - the bulk of TT product recently has all been instigated and funded by Hasbro (with licensing fees being a source of income for TT). If Hasbro were able to engineer the toys themselves and source their own factories to produce them, they probably wouldn't even have to pay licensing to TT. (I'm guessing that's what the licensing is for)

Is this fact or theory? If it's fact, I'd like to know more. If it's theory, that's cool too, just want to make sure

A lot of us who've been around a number of years, have moments when we just rattle off 'facts' that either have no recorded source, or just seem to fit what we've known from years of experiance with the Brand. I think for the benefit of the newer fans, and those who don't read everything in existance relating to Transformers, it is fair to ask for a source on anyone's claims (as long as it is done objectively, and you have an interest in the matter).
For instance, the first half of his statement is probably recorded somewhere, but I personally wouldn't have even thought about Referrencing that claim (if I stated it myself), as I just be recalling a number of 1st or 2nd hand accounts at BotCon or Hasbro Q&A, stating that. That said, if asked, I would probably have to dig through some BotCon reports somewhere or the TFwiki probably has it mentioned...
Not sure about the second half of the statement, pertaining to production/wholesale costs of Hasbro & TT, as that sort of thing is unlikely to be made public for a variety of reasons. Besides, if Hasbro are just commissioning TT to produce the toys for them, it would be like any other business/supplier relationship - the business (Hasbro) wants X amount of units at X amount of $ per unit - which leaves it up to the supplier (TT) to do it as profitable as possible within the parameters of Hasbro's minimum requirements (size, colours, etc). For their own product, TT can set their own requirements and per-unit costs, independant of what Hasbro does with theirs.

Gok has a Universe Hotshot which was mistakenly assembled with both Henkei and Universe parts out of factory packaging. This points that both releases are assembled within the same factory and therefore two production lines.

I read that as Jaydisc seeking a source for the second half of your statement, about production costs, as the first half would probably be generally accepted by most of us who've been in the fandom for a while.

Both Tomy and Hasbro are in the business of making money. They treat their products differently, but this is not a sign of how much they care.
(Seriously dude... I've seen this "Tomy cares more about the customers" claim made a million times and it's UTTER BULLTRIPE.)

I've heard better stories about TT's customer service, than Hasbro's. Not saying that relates to the intention behind how they produce their product, but TT's after-sale service is much better than Hasbro's, suggesting that they do have a greater interest in the customer AFTER they have purchased the product, instead of just trying to generate customers like Hasbro do.
If someone has a personal assumption on a matter that appears untrue, just ask for a source for their information, as it may encourage them to find out for sure if it is true, without getting them defensive over a verbal outburst and stubbornly sticking with what they believe.

The cost of Transformers for Americans means sweet FA to me. I'm sorry, but for me the cost of a Hasbro Transformer is comparable to a TakaraTOMY Transformer -- and for approximately the same price I'd rather get the Takara version if I happen to prefer it over the Hasbro version.

If the Hasbro versions were substantially cheaper for me like they are for Americans, then I may reconsider getting Takara versions. But they're not.

So as long as I'm earning my wage in AUD I'm always going to be looking at it from an Australian perspective...

Since the point of the argument by Kup and Jhiaxus is based on production and quality standards of US and JP product, views on the final retail price in a secondary market (here) is irrelavent.
TT produce a product with a set wholesale price, for an expected retail price in Japan.
Hasbro pay TT to produce a product with a different set wholesale price, for a different expected retail price, in America.
Hasbro AUS pay Hasbro US, a much higher wholesale price to import US Hasbro product here, to sell onto retailers, for a much higher expected retail price here.

Just because TT toys can end up costing about the same as Hasbro product here, that's essentially a bonus to us Australians, as we end up having more choice for the same-priced US and JP figures.
If TT product or Hasbro US product is imported here (by a collector personally, or by an independant dealer), and the final price a collector pays for it is the same as the related Domestic Product, it shouldn't suggest that the Factory is producing each item for the same price (and extra colours or chrome are bonus features that one company is including at the expense of their profit margin). The Domestic product here has a wholesale price set by Hasbro US, so that reguardless of the fluctuating exchange rate, we have a set, standard price here (which would be for the Retailers benefit, so that they don't need to be adjusting prices every month).

Finally... will you please stop calling them "Takara". Takara doesn't exist any more. The company is named TakaraTomy in Japan, but as you point out you live in Australia. You have an Australian perspective. You only see things through an Australian point of view. In Australia the company is *TOMY*. Tomy is its international trading name. Look at any of your movie toys. Do you see the name Takara on them? Nope, nowhere.

Transformers currently produced in Japan, as per the comments on Henkei and reissue figures, has 'TakaraTomy' on the front of the packaging, in addition to 'Tomy' in the fine-print on the back. Either name is valid, and even if 'Takara' may no longer exist, it can still be used when referring to product produced while 'Takara' existed as a separate entity.

I don't know if it is just a transitional thing, but until the 'Takara' part of their labelling is dropped, I don't see it as being inaccurate using it, as everyone would know that TT, TakaraTomy, Takara, Tomy all refer to the JP version of TFs, while Hasbro refers to the US version.

I only begun to encounter heavy QC issues with Takara-Tomy during Henkei. Before that, I was very happy with them in that regard. On the other hand, Hasbro also had decent QC too but at around the time Universe 2.0 appeared, their QC also fell to the ground.

The merger/buyout of TT probably caused that, and the rapid rise of oil prices (cost of plastic). Since TT acquire the source of production (factories) on behalf of Hasbro and themselves, the cost to them needs to be balanced with the quality they can afford at the time - if cost of raw materials suddenly becomes more expensive, but they are locked into a wholesale price with Hasbro (and themselves), production costs may need to offset by cutting corners or increasing quotas on the workers.

(as can be seen by the length of this reply, this topic wasn't being followed by me until someone recently suggested I look at it - absence from a topic doesn't suggest I endorse the content or any verbal chastising within it.)

[kup]

I don't see my statement of Hasbro having a cheaper manufacturing line for their products to maximize in profits as being inaccurate. It is very evident that the quality of the toy is lesser than that of the Japanese release regardless of chrome or choice of colors. It is also clear that there has been a steady decrease in overall quality from Hasbro in manufacturing costs from previous lines but to be fair, this also applies to Takara-Tomy in their more mainstream products but not as extensive.

I also don't see my statement of Takara-Tomy being more end customer focused than Hasbro as inaccurate either. However that focus on the end consumer has decreased greatly since the merger with Tomy.

Regardless of what the Americans pay for their toys, the rest of the world have to pay inflated prices which revenue goes to Hasbro. Specially us in Australia, so Hasbro are still profiting on a lower cost production run.

And yes, both Companies are in it for the money as much as the other. No one is debating that at all. If TakTom wasn't in for the money, their releases would not be flooded with Convoys. However their focus and approach are somewhat different or there wouldn't be a need to have two separate production runs for each market within the same factory.

[GoktimusPrime]

I've heard better stories about TT's customer service, than Hasbro's. Not saying that relates to the intention behind how they produce their product, but TT's after-sale service is much better than Hasbro's, suggesting that they do have a greater interest in the customer AFTER they have purchased the product, instead of just trying to generate customers like Hasbro do.

I can personally atest to this. When I got Masterpiece Convoy it was missing a ladder panel. I called Takara's customer call centre and they FedExed me replacement parts which arrived within under a week. They were incredibly apologetic and also sent me some TF merchandise for free.

[5FDP]

I can personally atest to this. When I got Masterpiece Convoy it was missing a ladder panel. I called Takara's customer call centre and they FedExed me replacement parts which arrived within under a week. They were incredibly apologetic and also sent me some TF merchandise for free.

You seem to do alright getting free stuff from Hasbro as well Working in the customer service industry for many years, I am of the belief it depends on who you speak to / contact on any given day.

We have a system at work that measures customer satisfaction, and the results of that fluctuate tremendously depending on which customer is surveyed.

It just goes to show that you can't satisfy everybody all the time...

[dirge]

Since the point of the argument by Kup and Jhiaxus is based on production and quality standards of US and JP product, views on the final retail price in a secondary market (here) is irrelavent.

Not picking on griffin here - just quoting the most recent post along this line of thought.

This topis was started by someone looking to buy from an Australian perspective - being in Australia and all. So while it theoretically makes sense to consider the difference in intended prices, it's worth keeping in mind that anyone making a decision on whether to buy Henkei or Classics Megatron (for example), would be weighing up a roughly equivalest cost.

So for the sake of _their_ comparison, difference in intended prices in the USA/Japan becomes fairly meaningless if those prices aren't what he's going to pay now.

Of course, difference in prices on the _secondary_ market will be a big influence on which version becomes the preferred option.

[Darth Conlan]

Is there anywhere in Australia that you can buy either if these type of toys?

[Darth Conlan]

Is there anywhere in Australia that you can buy either if these type of toys?

Sorry for the double post but anywhere in Melbourne? Any little collection shops etc that would be great to look in?