Power Core Combiners - do the new Minicons count?

[SofaMan]

Up until now, we've counted Minicons as separate TFs for UCM purposes. Problem is, these new Minicons don't really *feel* like Minicons in the traditional sense; they feel more like Nebulans (which don't count separately).

Of course, we count Crosswise and Rook, who don't really have real individual modes either and are essentially Headmasters.

I'm not sure where I stand quite yet, and thought that in the interests of muddying the waters it was worth having a discussion about.

[fatbot]

woo hoo first vote! At the moment I believe they should, but we really need to wait for some official fiction with them in it. The card backs do state they are partnered with the mini-con, but that may not be enough to statisfy the pundits.

[Sky Shadow]

As much as I think it's irrelevant and I can't think of a reason why anyone would need to count their toys anyway...

I instinctively voted no. Probably only because I particularly think that those drone-limb thingys shouldn't count, though. Which isn't even what this poll seems to be about. Oh well.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

They're named, they're interchangeable...I say let 'em count, but they have to use separate drinking fountains, sit at the back of the bus and give up their seat for Bulks.

[griffin]

Quote from Hasbro Designers in #32 of the Collector Club Magazine:

...the Power Core Mini-cons are not tied to Unicron or the Last Autobot. ...we see the Mini-cons existing as another 'race' of Transformers on Cybertron, versus being tied to a specific being or theme.

A bit vague, but sounds like it is a resetting of the Mini-con story concept, so that they are back to being a third race of beings, that have an unknown allegiance and origin.

[SofaMan]

I instinctively voted no. Probably only because I particularly think that those drone-limb thingys shouldn't count, though. Which isn't even what this poll seems to be about. Oh well.

Yeah, I wasn't even considering those limb drones as separate toys.

[GoktimusPrime]

Article 07 already states that drones don't count. So don't worry about including them in this poll.

Now Article 02 states:

Nebulans, Master Robots, Motorvator partners, Pretender/Crossformer/Dinoforce shells and Action Master partners and vehicles do not count separately.

I agree that the PowerCore MiniCons are similar to Nebulans or Action Master partners which transform into weapons and accessories (and vehicles) for their larger primary Transformer partners. In effect they themselves are accessories (who happen to be named and can transform).

So if the majority vote "no" then I think we should lump them in with Article 02. If the majority votes "yes" then Article 02 will have to include a disclaimer that exempts them.

I'm going with no.

At the moment I believe they should, but we really need to wait for some official fiction with them in it

But Nebulans have extensive official fiction written for them (e.g. Spike Witwicky), yet they don't count independently.

They're named, they're interchangeable...I say let 'em count

Nebulans, Action Master Partners and some "peripheral" Transformers (re: Article 07) such as Scamper, Six Gun, Gasket, Grommet, Full-Tilt, Fasttrack et al. do not count separately according to the UCM. So why should these MiniCons?

[GoktimusPrime]

I'd like to add that one rationale that was discussed during other UCM poll threads was whether or not these toys would be considered to be meaningful Transformer action figures in their own right. The basic way to answer this question is to ask yourself, "Would I buy this toy if it were sold on its own?" (and you didn't necessarily intend on buying another Transformer to interact with it)

For example, would you buy Chopster if it were sold on its own and you didn't necessarily intend on buying another Transformer to interact with it? The Armada Mini-Con Rollbar on the other hand has better inherent play value as a Transformer action figure in its own right. In fact, IMO that Mini-Con is a better Transformer toy than Scavenger! On its own Rollbar is a lot like a Micromaster and has the same play value. Chopster on the other hand has the equivalent play value of a Nebulan, which most people don't count separately.

[kup]

Those limb things are more like upgrade accessories than actual individual toys so I say no.

[SMHFConvoy]

They're named, they're interchangeable...I say let 'em count, but they have to use separate drinking fountains, sit at the back of the bus and give up their seat for Bulks.

I voted yes they count and they're much more streamlined than previous mini-cons