The Soapbox XII: The Convenient Truth

[Kyle]

If I buy fan customs, then I have no right to be against KO.

If I hit my own kids, then I have no right to be against someone raping my own kids?

Is this the right logic?

[Sky Shadow]

If I buy fan customs, then I have no right to be against KO.

If I hit my own kids, then I have no right to be against someone raping my own kids?

Is this the right logic?

Knockoffs raped your beaten kids' childhood?

[Kyle]

Knockoffs raped your beaten kids' childhood?

Well yes.

[Kyle]

I suppose if I smoke cigarette, then I have no right to be against taking hardcore drugs as well.

[GoktimusPrime]

IMHO:
+ If you're cool with fan customs, go ahead and buy them.
+ If you're cool with KOs, go ahead and buy them.
+ If you object to fan customs, don't buy them.
+ If you object to KOs, don't buy them.

...in short if you don't like something, I dunno, don't buy them? What I'm finding confusing is that some people seem to have a vehemently strong objection against something, _but_ admit that they are willing to buy them. ??? I guess it's like seeing a gambler criticising others who gamble.

[kup]

IMHO:
+ If you're cool with fan customs, go ahead and buy them.
+ If you're cool with KOs, go ahead and buy them.
+ If you object to fan customs, don't buy them.
+ If you object to KOs, don't buy them.

...in short if you don't like something, I dunno, don't buy them? What I'm finding confusing is that some people seem to have a vehemently strong objection against something, _but_ admit that they are willing to buy them. ???

I think that the argument put forth by STL is not so much if you are cool (or not) with KOs or customs and more that if you buy customs you shouldn't be against KOs because they are the same thing from a moral point. Of course I disagree with such a view.

[Kyle]

Morally speaking, ALL people on this forum ARE wrong. We shouldn't even be spending money on official Hasbro/TakaraTomy toys. We're all grown-ups! Our money should be going to more worthwhile things like feeding the homeless and hungry, charities and children in Ethiopia etc etc.

[STL]

I think that you are missing the point of our arguments. As griffin said you cannot judge everything equally bad in such a black and white manner - You have to also assess the context of the release in question.

If Wingblade Prime kit was suddenly and deliberately announced right after Hasbro had announced their own release then yeah it is a knock off and on top of that its not worth it as the custom is likely to cost as much as the official release as its a lower end toy plus it comes with an official 'adapted' Prime figure to fit the armor but that's irrelevant to the topic in question since this scenario has not happened and we are talking about what makes a custom kit 'good' or a KO. However if Hasbro had announced or it becomes clear that there would never be a Wingblade Prime then that validates the existence and relevance of the kit. It's basically all about context.

MP Grimlock on the other hand is a very expensive high end toy which was supposed to come with a crown which happend to be missing from the final product - Just the crown. Not many people would go forth and spend the same or more likely an increased amount again ranging from $250-$300+ on the same toy only for the crown. The custom crown is only $15-$17 before shipping and 'completes' your first release Grimlock and if it wasn't for the kit several Grimlocks would simply remain 'uncrowned' with the owner not bothering with the new release. Using myself as an example, if the only difference between the first Grimlock and King Grimlock was just the crown I would not have bothered with the newer release at all with or without the custom crown available.

Truth is often a matter of context and perspective such as with Fan Kits. I see the term of 'An inconvenient Truth' on this topic as none applicable as you are trying to enforce a generalized but absolute term of 'True/False' on something that is very much a gray area that can become 'moral' or 'immoral' depending on the context in which its used as well as execution.

This Wingblade Prime a clear knock off and I consider it as bad in a similar way as the miniature MP Prime for reasons already explained:

Gotta love that Animated Cybertron Prime with armour. They stop at nothing, don’t they?

Again, you’re context misses the point. Your context is changing goal posts and rationalize it. The whole price point is moot. You use it b/c its convenient to you. Let’s put it this way then. If someone can’t afford an original G1 Devastator, its okay that they purchase a KO? That that legitimises the existence of the KO? But under your reasoning the context matters. So what’s not to say then KOs are okay? Oh and add to that for instance that Takara has said it’s lost the mold for G1 Grimlock. Well guess what? A counterfeit producer goes out there and reproduces it. Given the contextual points, you’ve made above, does it legitimise the existence of the KO?

The moral high ground really rests on one being able to assert the fraud and theft of the person who steals the IP – be it mold or character. In the cases above, I’ve used your very own arguments to justify KOs which just goes to show how conveniently you can make the truth so that it works for you. That’s why it’s not tenable.

If I buy fan customs, then I have no right to be against KO.

If I hit my own kids, then I have no right to be against someone raping my own kids?

Is this the right logic?

I suppose if I smoke cigarette, then I have no right to be against taking hardcore drugs as well.

I think you’re being facetious here. And I won’t honour it with a petty retort. But to answer your overall point I would answer in the affirmative as the position is not one you can stand on given that both arise from the abuse of IP that they do not belong. I’ve given my reasons before. If you’d like I’d encourage you to address some of those questions I’ve posed above. It’s much harder to do than be facetious.

Am I missing something here? We all have the option to vote with our wallets. If you have an objection against unlicensed products, then just don't buy them.

Again, as I’ve said. I personally have no problem about fan customs. What this Soapbox has tried to contend though is that it’s not possible to occupy a moral high ground on KOs or even pseudo KOs (like iGear Prime) when we’re willing to venture out and purchase other items that stem from the very same infringement of IP. What moral high ground we have is tenuous at best. The Soapbox is not saying you can’t dislike KOs, you still can, but don’t think for a moment that they’re there’s some higher moral high ground you can stand aloft on b/c most of those reasons, quite unfortunately, are simply convenient truths.

Again, I should also note that last year or the year before I was foremost among people to initiate the complaint process on eBay on these forums against KOs. It's not like I have a certain love affair with them either. I don't like them but given the change to our evolving fandom, I've had to reassess my position on them. I'm not a KO lover by any stretch of the imagination but I'm not a hypocrite either


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All that said, clearly there is divided opinion on the matter. As I’ve previously mention, I don’t think it’s going to get easier. There’s a lot in the pipeline that will only raise more and more questions about what they are and where they sit.

[Robzy]

Our money should be going to more worthwhile things like feeding the homeless and hungry, charities and children in Ethiopia etc etc.

Yes... and Michael Bay and the "Writers" should never have been paid millions of $$$s for ROTF!

[STL]

Morally speaking, ALL people on this forum ARE wrong. We shouldn't even be spending money on official Hasbro/TakaraTomy toys. We're all grown-ups! Our money should be going to more worthwhile things like feeding the homeless and hungry, charities and children in Ethiopia etc etc.

When we head out on a Thursday to Sunday and blow a pile of hard earned on alcohol, technically we all are being irresponsible then too, eh? Cos all it ends up is violence on our streets. (well in Melb anyway)