Where is Optimus Prime?

[GoktimusPrime]

Remember anything that is true in Japan is true for Japan, but Western Beast Wars continuity doesn't = Japanese Beast Wars continuity.

Yeah... kinda.

The Japanese Beast Wars continuity is intended to be part of Anglophone BW continuity -- much like how say UK G1 comic continuity was intended to be part of US G1 continuity.

Technically it could be argued that they are separate continuities - indeed Marvel officially classifies two G1 universes; we have Earth-91274 which is where everything in the US comics occurs, and we also have Earth-120185 which is where the UK comics are set, i.e. it's the same as Earth-91274 only with additional events like Target: 2006 and the Time Wars... so one could argue that these events only occurred on Earth-120185 and not on Earth-91274.

Now the problem with this is that at some events that occurred on Earth-91274 is dependent/reliant on events that occurred on Earth-120185. Take the Matrix Quest for example... that event could not have occurred the way it did if not for the Autobots having ejected Optimus Prime's body into space in a funeral barge (later discovered on Cameron's third moon of VsQs), as well as the whole Deathbringer story arc. Both of these events occurred in the UK comics but not in the US comics, but the US comics do flashback to them, and indeed Optimus Prime's body was still in the funeral barge when it was discovered by scientists from Cameron Space Control. And of course, the Matrix's prior contact with Deathbringer gave it its first taste for destruction -- which led it to want to experience it even more, thus the whole Matrix-Spawn, Thunderwing thingamajiggy. All key events that occurred in the US comics that relied on events from the UK comics.

At best I guess it could be argued that Earth-91274 is the universe where everything in the US comics happened plus some events from the UK comics... and Earth-120185 us a close parallel universe where the same things happened, plus additional events that may not have happened on Earth-91274. So IMHO JP and Anglophone BW continuities are kinda like comparing these two Earths.

"Too... many... Earths!"

And Fan convention stories, whoever wrote them, are pretty much fan fiction, as they are fiction for fans.

Aren't the BotCon comics printed with permission from Hasbro though? If so, then that lends them official currency as far as continuity's concern (regardless of whether people may consider the writing quality to be on par with fan fics or not).

[Paulbot]

Unless you consider Beast Wars a contiutation of the comic universe (I do, but it's debatable) its off topic.

There are parallels between Beast Wars Japan and Beast Wars English, they are closely parallel but they are not identical. If you can't watch or read it in English (how many times, we don't speak Spanish) it's doesn't count.

One of the stories quoted above wasfrom the UK convention. Don't know how closely Hasbro looked at that. They may look closer at the BotCon stuff nowadays but a decade ago? There's a point where "facts" from obscure comics of a couple thousand print run for hardcore fans and never intended to be seen by the mass audience can easily be waved away and discussions of what we might think is better fitting are valid.

Take the Matrix Quest for example... that event could not have occurred the way it did if not for the Autobots having ejected Optimus Prime's body into space in a funeral barge (later discovered on Cameron's third moon of VsQs), ... Both of these events occurred in the UK comics but not in the US comics.

Also reread TFUS #26 and GIJoe vs Transformers #3. Both stories have Optimus Prime's body blasted into space in a funeral barge. They were aiming at the sun, but still.

[liegeprime]

Well, I for one saw Optimus Prime during beast wars.... he was in the ark with Megatron trying to murder him... so there hehehehe okay okay so they went back in time but still he was there

and as for Rodimus, that good for nothing leader as far as I know, went "away" on self exile with kup in tow and didn't even bother to hand over the matrix for pete's sake! How Selfish! good thing the next autobot leaders didnt need the Matrix and were quite powerful and deadly on their own - Dai "killer" Atlas for example.

[Verno]

Whether Prime could enjoy the peace is an interesting question.

Orion Pax (or Optronix or whoever he was) was the Account Receivable Clerk or whatnot, or happened to get shot, then rebuilt, reprogrammed and given the Matrix by Alpha Trion and became Optimus Prime, a leader. I'd say whoever Orion Pax was is gone, and only the driven leader remains.

He was built to serve, and built for a purpose. Once that purpose is served, he has two options in my opinion, and neither is enjoying the peace on the planet.

1. Go on the mission Sharky described, and round up any stragglers who could cause trouble in the future. Basically, he keeps fighting.

2. Return to the Matrix, and be at peace after a long battle, knowing his job is done.

I don't think he'd wander down the streets high-5'ing Maximals for the rest of his days.

[GoktimusPrime]

and as for Rodimus, that good for nothing leader as far as I know, went "away" on self exile with kup in tow and didn't even bother to hand over the matrix for pete's sake! How Selfish! good thing the next autobot leaders didnt need the Matrix and were quite powerful and deadly on their own - Dai "killer" Atlas for example.

Rodimus was the leader of the Autobots at the end of the Great War, not Optimus. So Optimus must have stepped down for whatever reason (maybe he was off on some idealistic crusade ) and Rodimus became the leader. It was under Rodimus' leadership that the Autobots won the Great War and the Pax Cybertronia treaty was signed. Rodimus also paved the way for the Maximal Upgrade and was one of the first to have himself downsized (indeed the last G1 toy of Hot Rod was a Micromaster!). Rodimus would later become a member of the new Wreckers during the Beast Machines era.

Unless you consider Beast Wars a contiutation of the comic universe (I do, but it's debatable) its off topic.

I personally consider the comic universe out-of-continuity... too many conflicts with the Japanese cartoons. Unless you see the comics as rendering the Japanese cartoons out-of-continuity... depends on a certain point of view...

There are parallels between Beast Wars Japan and Beast Wars English, they are closely parallel but they are not identical. If you can't watch or read it in English (how many times, we don't speak Spanish) it's doesn't count.

I don't think it's accurate to say that simply because a story is in a language that one doesn't understand, therefore it's rendered non-canonical. I can understand that it may be inaccessible to audiences who don't speak that language, but I don't think it means it's non-canonical per se.

One of the stories quoted above wasfrom the UK convention. Don't know how closely Hasbro looked at that. They may look closer at the BotCon stuff nowadays but a decade ago? There's a point where "facts" from obscure comics of a couple thousand print run for hardcore fans and never intended to be seen by the mass audience can easily be waved away and discussions of what we might think is better fitting are valid.

I personally believe that technically whatever the latest officially approved explanation is, remains the "official" explanation and supercedes any contradictory fanon. I can accept that there are points of official canon which remains debatable (e.g. Beast Wars anime v. comics - since both are official sources even if contradictory) -- but up against an unauthorised conflicting source of canon, I'm going to disregard the unofficial source.

I can personally accept unofficial fansplanations if they don't conflict with official canon. For example, in Ichikawa Hirofumi's unofficial "Cybertron Chronicles" comic, it's explained that Chip Chase's real name is Christopher Chase and that "Chip" is a nickname. There's nothing in official canon to even remotely confirm this, but there's nothing in it to deny it either -- so I can accept it. And honestly I consider the best fan works to be the ones that work with official canon, and not against it. <---JMHO

Also reread TFUS #26 and GIJoe vs Transformers #3. Both stories have Optimus Prime's body blasted into space in a funeral barge. They were aiming at the sun, but still.

Heh, I was actually re-reading Reaching The Omega Point last night after posting on this thread. I'll get around to re-reading those issues later.

Orion Pax (or Optronix or whoever he was) was the Account Receivable Clerk or whatnot,

Dock worker.

or happened to get shot, then rebuilt, reprogrammed and given the Matrix by Alpha Trion and became Optimus Prime, a leader. I'd say whoever Orion Pax was is gone, and only the driven leader remains.

As so often happened in G1. There's no need to write character development -- this Cosmic MacGuffin will change you to a completely different person! Abra-cadabra!! I prefer Beast Wars where characters like Cheetor evolved into who he was at the end of Beast Machines -- maturing through experience and learning rather than some magic bauble.

He was built to serve, and built for a purpose. Once that purpose is served, he has two options in my opinion, and neither is enjoying the peace on the planet.

In the Marvel G1 comics he never started off as a civilian like in the cartoon - he was always a soldier. And in fact was the first military leader to assume supreme executive command of the Autobots. So what does a robot who was built for war do during peace time?

Perhaps he did find a purpose... maybe that's what he did at the end of the Great War... defeated the Decepticons, and all that was left was to do the diplomacy -- get the Pax Cybertronian drafted and signed etc., but he didn't want to do it so he passed the reigns onto Rodimus and appointed him to lead the Cybertronians into a new age of peace and happiness, while he stepped down from his role as leader to pursue his new role as Pepsi Convoy... delivering the taste (and kilojoules) of a new generation.

1. Go on the mission Sharky described, and round up any stragglers who could cause trouble in the future. Basically, he keeps fighting.

Or delivering Pepsi.

2. Return to the Matrix, and be at peace after a long battle, knowing his job is done.

That's kinda sad. It's almost like he can have no life after the fighting's done. One of my friends reckons that was the reason why Peter Jackson omitted the Scouring of the Shire from Return of the King -- as freakin' awesome as that story is (Hobbits fighting against Uruks in guerilla warfare?! YEAH!!!) -- there's the argument that cinema audiences might have felt that Frodo's entire quest was to save the Shire... he saw it being razed in Galadriel's water bowl, and was told that should he fail then this would be the fate of the Shire. Of course, in the books Frodo (or well, Gollum) succeeds in destroying the Ring, but the Shire is still destroyed (and the surviving Hobbits enslaved); while it's a great story, I guess a lot of movie goers might watch that and think, "Well what was the point of Frodo's quest if the Shire wasn't spared..."

I don't think he'd wander down the streets high-5'ing Maximals for the rest of his days.

I'd actually like to see him do that! Strongbad style!

"Ladies make a line to the left for kisses. Dudes make a line to the right for high-fives."

[Verno]

Rodimus was the leader of the Autobots at the end of the Great War, not Optimus. So Optimus must have stepped down for whatever reason (maybe he was off on some idealistic crusade ) and Rodimus became the leader. It was under Rodimus' leadership that the Autobots won the Great War and the Pax Cybertronia treaty was signed. Rodimus also paved the way for the Maximal Upgrade and was one of the first to have himself downsized (indeed the last G1 toy of Hot Rod was a Micromaster!). Rodimus would later become a member of the new Wreckers during the Beast Machines era.

Can you point me in the direction of which universe/story that happened? Cheers.

[GoktimusPrime]

Can you point me in the direction of which universe/story that happened? Cheers.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Hot_Rod_%28G1...g_the_Wreckers

[bowspearer]

The actual initial question is actually kind of fallacious as it really should be "Where is Prime in each continuity?"

The problem is that the moment you look at one continuity, the answer completely changes.

Certainly the Japanese Convobat is G1 Prime, however the US version clearly suffers from "Prime Apotheosis" as the Tech spec for Primal states that the Primal (ape) is an upgrade of Primal (bat) if you take Primal (ape) as a different character to G1 Prime.

Of course this presumes that the US toy continuity and the cartoon continuity are identical when they are not. The Tarrantulas in the Toyline is different to the one in the show- much in the same way that trademark circumvention resulted in Jetfire never appearing in the Cartoon and Skyfire never getting a toy with the exception of a one off Custom (ultimately they had different bodies, different profiles and different names). Therefore it is entirely possible that in the Tech Spec continuity in the US, Convobat and Primal are the both their respective G1 namesakes.

Furthermore, IIRC, the Beast Wars US Cartoon is a continuation of the Marvel G2 comic (eg the Vok being the Swarm, etc) rather than the G1 Cartoon, making that a completely the two exist in alternate realities.

Therefore Convobat and US Cartoon continuity Optimus Primal exist in alternate realities, where in the US Cartoon.

But then considering that Convoy and Optimus Prime exist in alternate realities as of TF:TM (the Japanese and US versions take place in different years), or even Scramble City for that matter, this is hardly surprising.

In the US continuity, Prime never became Star Convoy.

In the Japanese continuity, Convoy never became a Power Master (Ginrai was a different character to Convoy) or an Action Master.

Then you have the Manga, the Marvel US comic and the Marvel UK comic (which is meant to fit into the US continuity but doesn't).

They say a picture speaks a thousand words. Well, to quote Gok, I think this is the most accurate answer to the question:

[Verno]

If you don't mind!

I started the discussion first, champ.

[bowspearer]

When you copyright and trademark it, I'll keep that in mind