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Thread: Transformers questions by newbies, and not-so-newbies

  1. #4651
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    I don't see how it is a ridiculous term. If anything, it was more "tongue in cheek" at the contradictory nature of canon, which itself, is supposed to be as reliable/enforceable as laws.
    Concepts like, the Transformers coming from Cybertron, or crashing on Earth in the Ark, or even Megatron being the leader of the Decepticons instead of the Autobots - these are "set in stone", undeniable "laws" of the TFs Gen1 Universe... it may sound like a lame term, but it's technically an accurate description of what Canon (even re-worked or retroactive canon) *should be*.
    Otherwise, how can we rely on or agree on certain fundamentals if there was no canon to fall back on?

    The less important elements though are more of a frustration, but can also be a way for more fans to enjoy Transformers, or their collections... by having an alternative canon they prefer or like better than a new or old version.

    Like, for me, I hate the way they keep changing the "canonical" colours of Rumble/Frenzy (IDW just changed it again last year). I might support one version (Frenzy being blue), but many others who grew up on the cartoon instead of the toys, would be happy to have the new/current canon of Frenzy being red. Both are technically correct... which means fans of both can enjoy what they prefer.
    Problem there is that you're equating two different terms, to be one.

    'Retcon' and 'canon' are two very different terms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    And sure, the Bombshell/Skywarp thing has been retconned back and forth a LOT and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if future official material reverts it back to Bombshell. But the fact is that Cyclonus has been Bombshell or Skywarp depending on different retcons - but the most recent retcon (2011) says it Skywarp. But if someone would rather believe it's Bombshell then go for it.
    That is not right at all, Goktimus. Bombshell is reformatted into Cyclonus in the movie itself. That is how it was storyboarded* Are you honestly going to argue that because some recent pack-in comic suggests that Cyclonus was Skywarp it changes the film itself, contradicting common sense, author intent and the way it is visually narrated? That means the Dinobots must have always been a combining gestalt because a comic pack-in says so and it hasn't been retconned since. Or that Hot Rod was in his Classics form in Transformers: The Movie because that too was in a recent pack-in comic.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    Cyclonus was either Bombshell or Skywarp - there have been conflicting retcons, but the law of retroactive continuity says that the latest version is the most correct... so Skywarp.
    If "the law of retroactive continuity says that the latest version is the most correct" then the "correct" answer is that Cyclonus is not Skywarp, since the most recent G1 retcon was More Than Meets The Eye #3 which came out yesterday and explicitly states that Cyclonus is an ancient Transformer who was never reformatted from Skywarp or Bombshell, since they are both still around.

    Goktimus, what you are saying makes no sense.

    *

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    Doesn't 'retcon' mean 'retroactive canon'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demonac View Post
    Doesn't 'retcon' mean 'retroactive canon'?
    Retroactive continuity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demonac View Post
    Doesn't 'retcon' mean 'retroactive canon'?
    Retro-Active Continuity.

    *Like me claiming I posted the answer before Sky Shadow.

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    Close enough :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat View Post
    Retro-Active Continuity.

    *Like me claiming I posted the answer before Sky Shadow.
    LOL. Well you said it the most recently so the law of retroactive continuity says that you are correct, regardless of fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Shadow View Post
    LOL. Well you said it the most recently so the law of retroactive continuity says that you are correct, regardless of fact.
    In that case I wish I'd made it something juicier...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ode to a Grasshopper View Post
    Galvatron was definitely Megatron in TFTM. After that it all gets a bit iffy.
    I prefer Skywarp as Cyclonus personally, mostly because the Sweeps and Cyclonus' armada numbers make more sense to me as a reformatting of the Inscticons' cloning abilities, but really...it's a massive can of worms you're better off just ignoring and going with whatever you want. Bombshell is foregrounded as Cyclonus in the reformatting shot which suggests Cyclonus was Bombshell, the latest retcon (which does have priority for official canon) has Skywarp as pre-Cyclonus. Then the Insecticons and both Skywarp and Thundercracker show up in the coronation scene right after their bodies have supposedly been reformatted into Scourge and Cyclonus and/or their followers.

    So yeah, you can put pretty much any of them into a display together and it'll have just as much fictional continuity as TFTM.
    EDIT...Sorta.
    There is Dirgeclonus/this guy, and IIRC (which is a bit iffy) there's another Cyclonus clone who get destroyed in Five Faces of Darkness. There may even be one who gets destroyed by the Dinobots as they're not boarding the shuttle in TFTM, though again my memory's a bit fuzzy.
    Either way, thanks to the wonders of AKOM animation errors there's a certain amount of leeway there for poor 'Armada'.

    EDIT #2: Yep, here we go...5 Cyclonus clones. Maybe they were just really shy most of the time, or Galvatron killed them in a fit of insane rage between 5FoD and The Killing Jar.
    I don't even remember those scenes.
    If i ever get a cyclonus junker and some time i'll do that repaint
    Dirgeclonus
    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Shadow View Post



    *
    Bombshell it is for now.
    I'll never mention it again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geigerrock-2 View Post
    does anyone know who cyclonus ,scourge and the sweeps actually were before unicron got to them,
    This has been discussed to death over the past decade and then the decade before that. However, I feel very much for it and have put my thoughts down permanently.

    This is what I think and a full explanation of why - in a nutshell Cyclonus = Skywarp and Scourge = Thundercracker. (the article is actually the very first result in google if you type "who became cyclonus", wow).

    Therefore, in my world, the below is just wrong!
    Quote Originally Posted by Geigerrock-2 View Post
    Bombshell it is for now.
    I'll never mention it again.
    I accept that G1 continuity is messy and inconsistent and all that. However, my BIGGEST gripe is that Bob Budiansky didn't take the opportunity to set the score straight when he 'wrote' The Transformers Animated Movie for IDW (aka the modern adaptation of TFTM).

    If there is one person that could authoritatively conclude this issue one way or another, it is Bob, one of the key creative talents behind the original Transformer profiles and stories. This was the perfect opportunity to set the Cyclonus record straight but sadly no move was made to clarify Cyclonus’ reformatting. Don Figueroa drew the reformatting scene as an almost exact reproduction of TFTM (1986), that is with Bombshell and Skywarp being reformatted into 2 Cyclonus’.

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