Martial arts discussion thread

[KalEl]

He is quite a nice bloke. Even though we are on break at the moment after I had a huge verbal stoush with my deranged sister who was verbally abusing my wife, I rang him and he let me into the academy to work the pads and let off some steam.

that's cool that you are able to do that

[Bartrim]

that's cool that you are able to do that

I know. Plus cause I am a green belt now... which means hopefully be end of year I will be going for brown/white belt he talked to me about becoming an instructor and outlined the course I have to do.

[KalEl]

I know. Plus cause I am a green belt now... which means hopefully be end of year I will be going for brown/white belt he talked to me about becoming an instructor and outlined the course I have to do.

very cool, i learnt so much as an instructor and you grow quickly that way

[GoktimusPrime]

Okay, just had my first lesson tonight. Both Sensei and Sempais gave me heaps of praise about how quickly I was able to pick stuff up -- I did tell Sensei and some of the Sempais that I have a background in Tai Chi. They told me that on the first lesson they usually only teach basics: i.e. basic punching, blocking and some stances... but as I was showing good progress, Sensei taught me the entire first Kata which I repeatedly practised and Sensei nitpicked me on some technical stuff.

The Good:

+ I'm really glad I was allowed to learn the entire first Kata on the first lesson. Learning purely the basic blocks/punches/stances alone would have bored me to tears. Oh, and I was also allowed to move into stances and punch at the same time... that's good. Doing it stationary would've also been dull.

+ The people there were very friendly.

+ Sensei let me wear my martial arts shoes in training tonight. I'm not at all fond of training barefoot... eww. Although she prefers students to be barefoot... but honestly, unless I'm sparring with someone, what's the practical reason? Even if I am sparring, these are sparring shoes! They're not street shoes - I don't _ever_ wear them anywhere outside of a martial arts class. But anyway, it's Sensei's choice... so far she's fine with me wearing the shoes, but if she insists that I take them off, I will (her Dojo, her rules).

+ Sensei believes in teaching from the feet up. That doing the stances correctly comes before doing the hands correctly. I could not agree with her more.

+ As I suspected, the training techniques are quite good for people who have either never done a martial art or any form of sport, or have underdeveloped physical coordination/skills.

+ The blocks are very "tight" (close to the body) which is more typical of Okinawan Karate than Japanese Karate. The Okinawans tend to have tighter blocks like this, whereas Japanese Karate typically has more open/outward blocks like this. I did ask Sensei if she knew what style of Karate Kanchou had learnt before creating GKR, but she didn't know (but she said that hopefully I'll get to meet Kanchou someday and I can ask him directly. ).

The Dubious:

+ This whole "no contact" thing. Now, I'm used to going to schools where students don't spar -- that's actually a very traditional part of martial arts (sparring is more of a modern thing - although I can see the benefit of it)... but the immediate problem I can see here is that students are taught to punch in front of targets, not through them! In Tai Chi - and I'm sure this is the same in most other martial arts - we're taught to plow through our targets. Whenever we hit a pad or shield, we aim to hit past the target, not at it. All their punches are very "retracted"... obviously designed so that beginner students will only stop their punches just short of striking their opponents, but never at them! Sensei explained to the beginners that in Karate we never hit anyone, we only ever hit in front of them. So what's the point of practising punches (and later kicks) then? If you don't believe in hitting someone, fine, I can respect that. So use passive defensive techniques that don't involve striking e.g. grappling, throwing, submission, wrestling... more focus on blocking, parrying or even simply evasive manoeuvring (stepping/hopping). I'm just imagining someone trying to defend themselves with these moves by punching the air in front of an attacker's face! As a result of the no-contact rule, it permeates into _everything_ we do -- not just basic strike practice, but in the way we move into stances and practice kata too. Some of the 'mistakes' that Sensei picked me up on was because I was driving my strikes too much... i.e. because I'm imagining my hits plowing through my targets, not stopping in front of them. So she'd correct me by getting me to hold my strikes back. And you know what the irony is? The Japanese word that they use for "punch" in the Dojo is "zuki" which actually means "to thrust," yet we are taught not to thrust through!

+ Apparently even when contact is permitted at the higher levels, it's still limited -- no striking below the belt (other than sweeps). So what... no kicking to the shins, striking to the groin, stomping on the foot, taking out the knees etc.??

+ At least one of the stances has been simplified in a way that I find questionable -- this being the "Renojidachi". When Sensei first showed the stance to me, I moved my feet into a traditional Renojidachi position, like this - the reason why I did this is because the feet position happen to be the same as the 60:40 stance that we have in TaiChi/Kung Fu - only that the weight distribution is different (60:40 stance has even distribution like a Riding Horse Stance, whereas I was told the Renojidachi is a "back heavy" stance). Here are some photos of people standing in traditional Renojidachi - the same way that I was initially standing in:
http://ginkage.net/kihon/images/renoji1.jpg
http://www.karatenomichi.ru/articles...noji_dachi.jpg
http://www.shitoryu.org/skills/stanc...es/renojis.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VBQ6NyWawF...JI%2BDACHI.JPG
Btw, "Renojidachi" literally means "The 'Re' character stance," because the feet are meant to form the Katakana character "Re" which looks like this: レ
Sensei told me that the way I stood in Renojidachi was formerly correct, but it's now been changed to widen the stance like this... which naturally opens the groin <wince>. Sensei told me that the reason for this is stability... umm... the traditional version is stable too - so long as the person knows how to stand in their stance properly. Sure, it's harder to achieve... but you know, with effort and practice you can do it. Many martial arts schools test your stances by getting you stand in them and then getting other students to see if they can push you over! If you fall, then you weren't standing in your stance properly. In Tai Chi we do Push Hands, which absolutely requires you to stand in stance properly or you'll fly backwards. The only advantage I can see with the new Renojidachi is that it's easier to teach and learn, because it's technically far more simplistic. Just make sure you're wearing a cup.

+ There's a part of the Kata where I look over my shoulder to an opponent who's behind me, but then I have to move to the opposite side of where I just looked, and therefore turn my back on my opponent!

The Different: i.e. stuff I consider neither good or bad, but just different to what I'm used to and will take some time to adjust

+ The whole shouting "KIAI!" thing. If you ever watch people practice Tai Chi forms, we're quiet as church mice - to go from that to "Angry White Pyjamas" is going to take some getting used to!

+ Barefoot training. I really hope Sensei will keep letting me wear my MA shoes. I don't even step onto my front porch with barefeet! Eww. Oh, and when we were running around the hall, one student went "OWW!" and told Sensei that she'd just stepped on something sharp. We looked around to see what it was, but couldn't see it. Made me feel glad I had footwear on!

+ Stepping into stances with that "inward-outward step" movement. In TaiChi/Kung Fu we just step forward like you do when walking, but in GKR we have to move the moving foot inward toward the stationary foot, but not touching it, then outward. I'm finding this difficult to do at high speed.

Other thoughts:

+ Is it required for instructors to use Japanese terminology? Because my Sensei - in her own admission - struggles with the pronunciation. I have trouble understanding what she's trying to say half the time, and quite frankly... she might as well just speak English to us. I can understand students wanting to familiarise themselves with certain terms in Japanese for the purposes of training w/ Karateka from non-English speaking countries, especially Japan. And it's also really useful if you're doing research into Karate, especially where source materials have never been translated into English. But as far as speaking in classes is concerned, I'm not sure if there's much benefit to constantly speaking poorly pronounced Japanese in the Dojo all the time - and I mean no disrespect to my Sensei by saying this. As I said, Sensei herself admits that she has trouble wrapping her tongue around the Japanese words. For example, the first punch we were taught was what Sensei initially called the "Oo-dan-zuki," which she told us means "Stomach punch." She kept saying, "Oo-dan-zuki" to us, and I kept thinking, "What is this word??" "Stomach punch" would actually be "Hara-uchi" (腹打ち) in Japanese... but then after she taught us the second punch and told us it was "Jodan-zuki," I was like, "Oohh!! She meant "Chuu-dan-zuki!"" (中段突き), which means, "middle level thrust." Right. Also, they gave us a sheet of Japanese terminology for students to learn... the term for the back punch ("yoko ura uchi") was spelt "oko ura uchi." To Sensei's credit she did pronounce it correctly as yoko and told the class that it means "side", which is correct. Cos honestly, what usually happens in class with us beginners is that Sensei tells us the name of a move she wants us to do... and we all look at her confused, then she tells us in English, then we do it. So anyway, looks like on top of learning a new martial art, I have to learn a new dialect of Japanese too... I'ma gonna call it "Sensei-nese."

+ Sensei didn't know the name of first form. Oh sorry, I meant "Kata." I asked because I was hoping to find a video on it online to help me practise at home. She said that she doesn't remember the names of the first two katas, but remembers the names of all the Katas after that. She's currently learning the Hangetsu Kata and was telling me that she's finding it weird learning the Hangetsu-dachi. I told her that "Hangetsu-dachi" means "Half moon stance," so maybe that might help her visualise how to stand in that position. I just Googled it now and apparently it's a variation of the Sanchin stance -- a core fundamental stance in both Fujian Kung Fu (where it originated from - the word "Sanchin" comes from Fujian Chinese phonology, because in Japanese it should be pronounced as "Sansen";三戦立ち) and Karate. I might discuss this with her next week -- hopefully once she can relate it with the Sanchin stance, then it might make it easier for her to do the Half-Moon stance. Oh sorry, the Hangetsudachi.

+ At least two people at the Dojo asked me if I had a family, then asked me why I didn't bring my wife and child to the class. When I told them that my wife just isn't interested in martial arts, they were like, "Why not? Bring her along," etc. And when I told them that my daughter is only 2, they were like, "You can bring her along when she's a bit older." This felt kinda McDojo and borderline cultish to me. Their payment structure is done so that families who enroll end up paying less, so it encourages people to drag relatives along... but seriously... could you imagine if people were like this at TF meets?? "Hey, where are your wife and kids? What do you mean they didn't want to come this collectible toy fair? Well, make sure you bring them along next time, okay?"

[Bartrim]

So overall how would you rate your first lesson? I feel that Kalel will be the best person to talk to regarding your concerns. The only thing I can comment on is the C-Step. We do the "C step" or as you put it "in GKR we have to move the moving foot inward toward the stationary foot, but not touching it, then outward." It does take practice but it is a very practical step for taking down an opponent . the way the foot moves in the c-step if done correctly can get behind your opponents foot and used to trip/sweep their leg out.

[GoktimusPrime]

Ah right, "C-Step," heh... still getting used to some new terminology and moves.

Overall it was pretty basic - as I expected. Although I was pleasantly surprised that Sensei let me learn the first Kata in its entirety... although it is a very basic form; only has one kind of punch, one kind of block and they say it only uses one stance, but in actuality it uses two, because they use a cross-legged stance as a transition when turning around. But I can see how it would be beneficial for people with little sports background or underdeveloped coordination. I've dropped KalEl a PM, so hopefully we'll be able to discuss this in more detail.

[KalEl]

So overall how would you rate your first lesson? I feel that Kalel will be the best person to talk to regarding your concerns. The only thing I can comment on is the C-Step. We do the "C step" or as you put it "in GKR we have to move the moving foot inward toward the stationary foot, but not touching it, then outward." It does take practice but it is a very practical step for taking down an opponent . the way the foot moves in the c-step if done correctly can get behind your opponents foot and used to trip/sweep their leg out.

Yes with enough practice it can be done very fast

Ah right, "C-Step," heh... still getting used to some new terminology and moves.

Overall it was pretty basic - as I expected. Although I was pleasantly surprised that Sensei let me learn the first Kata in its entirety... although it is a very basic form; only has one kind of punch, one kind of block and they say it only uses one stance, but in actuality it uses two, because they use a cross-legged stance as a transition when turning around. But I can see how it would be beneficial for people with little sports background or underdeveloped coordination. I've dropped KalEl a PM, so hopefully we'll be able to discuss this in more detail.

love to chat to you soon about it all much easier than typing.