Quote Originally Posted by Ode to a Grasshopper View Post
Not at all. If you don't like/want 'em, by all means don't buy 'em. But that doesn't mean you're entitled (and a sense of entitlement is exactly what it is) to condemn those of us who do choose to partake of them without our having the right of reply.
Oh, I don't mean that people shouldn't enjoy them. Do! Absolutely do! I just meant for me (and was probably not clear) that most of them are dog ugly, to me. There are a few where I've definitely gone to get (like Warbot Defender before Generations Springer was released), and it was just the the price that turned me off. And yeah, I guess the the way that a lot of fans go around colours my perception a bit. Having seen some really bizarre arguments to justify it all, whereas I guess I also don't have the G1 love that a lot of people do. I grew up with G1 yeah, but outside of a handful toys, about fifteen season 2 episodes and TF:TM, I was not exposed to much of it so I don't see salivate at the thought of a whole bunch of third party companies doing the same few gestalts and popular characters over and over (and then when they go out on a limb, things like the recent Not!Chromedome for example, just doesn't seem to work out the best) and make Hasbro and TT out to be villains for not doing it themselves. I mean, sure people want their Masterpiece scaled Shockwave (some of them look really nice), but do we really need third party Soundwaves? Starscreams? Is anyone crying out for them?

Sometimes it really feels like there's two Transformers fandoms. The general fandom, and this place, which is reasonable and has it's head screwed on right.

You're just as free to share your opinion and/or to vote with your wallet as anyone else - but that cuts both ways.You mean, like this?
The market for high-end TFs is by definition there, or else 3PPs wouldn't exist.There's a slight difference between creating something yourself and buying up someone else's work and claiming it for your own, hey.
Harmony Gold is company that seemingly runs on crazy defending a license that they won't let lapse cause they've got nothing else at all. The license for the original toy was all gotten on the up and up, and it's referencing that.

The Masterpieces are a little different, being aimed at collectors, but not, if you get what I mean? Since the increase in the lines output and the change in scale, it seems less like "high end collectors" and more "fans of the G1 cartoon but not much else, here have some toys that look like what you remember". They've been made a little less "high end" so to speak. I'm not sure I'm actually articulating this bit very well at all.

What sort of production runs do the third party products have, by the way? I mean, if they're not exactly large runs I really don't see that that proves the high-end collectors market is this gold mine waiting to be tapped.

And again, if we're talking legality, then as long as the 3PPs skirt that thin line between 'outright rip-off' and 'just different enough', they're in the clear. If we're going beyond legality and into the somewhat more complex realm of moral integrity, then as mentioned your righteous ire is just as applicable to HasTakTom themselves and your defense of them while condemning 3PPs is a tad hypocritical.

Again, it makes more sense without replacing what I actually wrote with a bunch of clumsy strawman argument(s).
As I said, my perceptions of the third party products might also be coloured by some downright bizarre comments, arguments and actions I've seen from other Transformers communities.

Hasbro and TT do plenty of dodgy things. Definitely. Cars are a blind spot to me, so you got me there. I didn't see "Lamborghini just different enough to avoid licencing issues" I see "red sports car". So yeah, until I read that I wouldn't have had a clue. But yeah that is dodgy, and unfortunate. I'm actually surprised that they wouldn't just get actual licenses for non-movie stuff thrown in with the movie stuff, but again, cars are not my thing, so for all I know the licensing for the movies prevented this because of the companies involved or something.

If these designers and all are so talented, though, if the products are so good, why don't they make a splash with original designs? Or the interest really does end with the character, which then does make it seem more like it's less about the product and more of an "I want it now so I must have it now" mentality. I mean, if they're sound designs and productions they should live or die based on existing fictions from the 80's should they? Plus, with the aesthetic being often unpleasing, I think some of that stems from thinking some of the moulds created would just be better off being completely original, and the displeasure in my (rather crazy) mind just comes from some of them looking, I don't know, forced, more than anything.