What if KO's weren't really KO's?

[DELTAprime]

We know for a fact that if the people at the factory Takara (or any other corporation for that matter) has hired to produce the product are not above board they will use the official molds to make "lunch time specials".

As far as 3rd parties go the guys at Seibertron think they know who is orchestrating the whole 3rd party racket and despite all the different companies there apparently is a single person or group at the center of it. It would be hilarious if it turned out to be someone from Hasbro or Takara. OK it wouldn't be someone from Takara, the Japanese are to honourable to do that.

[kurdt_the_goat]

Got a link for that Seibertron discussion? Wouldn't mind having a read of the theories!

I don't know... can you imagine the TT representative coming to the factories to inspect the output? He's getting the grand tour while naughty factory works scuttle about in the shadows shuffling KO MP's out of his view? They can't possibly be oblivious to the whole thing? The only argument i could see for TT to continue using such places (if they know this is going on), is that they simply have little choice in the matter. So if you can't beat em, join em!

[DELTAprime]

Got a link for that Seibertron discussion? Wouldn't mind having a read of the theories!

They mentioned it on a recent podcast, late last year I believe. I wasn't a major discussion more like an offhand comment.

Paraphrasing here: We are getting close to figuring out the guy thats running this. Most of the companies are taking orders from one guy or group.

That was about the extent of it. They allow talk on their forums about 3rd parties over at Seibertron in specific forums like we do, but don't report on 3rd parties.

[GoktimusPrime]

OK it wouldn't be someone from Takara, the Japanese are to honourable to do that.

Japan also has pretty strict laws when it comes to protecting intellectual property too. KOs are extremely rare in Japan, and there are some Japanese collectors who actually buy KOs because they're so hard to come by! In many other countries, you find KOs in cheap discount stores and markets, but in Japan most KOs I find are in collectable stores like Hero Gangu and Mandarake (although stores like Mandarake do clearly label which toys are KOs so as to fully inform customers). Also, using someone else's intellectual property without consent is frowned upon in Japan. Ever noticed how Japanese fan sites tend to have more 'original content' than non-Japanese sites? i.e. they're more like to have fan art than scans of official art or screen caps. I've seen some Japanese fans criticise non-Japanese fan sites for their "unoriginal" content. For example, if you want to find Japanese G1 box art or screen grabs etc., you're more likely to find them on non-Japanese than on Japanese fan sites.
e.g.
Dr. Sigma's Super Robot Life Research Institute
Botch the Crab
^Both are fan sites that archive G1 tech specs. The former for Japanese tech specs, the latter for Anglophone tech specs. Notice that Dr. Sigma's site is much more text intensive than Botch's. Even the tech specs are all typed out, not scanned - whereas Botch's are all scans, and there's also an archive of scanned box and card art. Dr. Sigma's site has very few scanned images, and they're more along the lines of G1 comic covers, but not scans of frames from inside the comic.

I'm not saying that either of those sites is better or worse than the other, but both reflect different cultural values from those who maintain them. Botch's site freely shares scans of G1 tech specs and art, whereas Dr. Sigma's site only shares the textual component but not the artwork.

So if there has been any counterfeiting being done at TakaraTOMY's factory, I would be mightily surprised if it were sanctioned by TakaraTOMY themselves. I suspect it would be more likely to be rogue elements at the factory doing it without TakTOM's knowledge. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why HasTak are considering moving manufacturing away from China to Vietnam (some BotShots are made in Vietnam if you check their copyright stamps).

[Bidoofdude]

Japan also has pretty strict laws when it comes to protecting intellectual property too. KOs are extremely rare in Japan, and there are some Japanese collectors who actually buy KOs because they're so hard to come by! In many other countries, you find KOs in cheap discount stores and markets, but in Japan most KOs I find are in collectable stores like Hero Gangu and Mandarake (although stores like Mandarake do clearly label which toys are KOs so as to fully inform customers). Also, using someone else's intellectual property without consent is frowned upon in Japan. Ever noticed how Japanese fan sites tend to have more 'original content' than non-Japanese sites? i.e. they're more like to have fan art than scans of official art or screen caps. I've seen some Japanese fans criticise non-Japanese fan sites for their "unoriginal" content. For example, if you want to find Japanese G1 box art or screen grabs etc., you're more likely to find them on non-Japanese than on Japanese fan sites.
e.g.
Dr. Sigma's Super Robot Life Research Institute
Botch the Crab
^Both are fan sites that archive G1 tech specs. The former for Japanese tech specs, the latter for Anglophone tech specs. Notice that Dr. Sigma's site is much more text intensive than Botch's. Even the tech specs are all typed out, not scanned - whereas Botch's are all scans, and there's also an archive of scanned box and card art. Dr. Sigma's site has very few scanned images, and they're more along the lines of G1 comic covers, but not scans of frames from inside the comic.

I'm not saying that either of those sites is better or worse than the other, but both reflect different cultural values from those who maintain them. Botch's site freely shares scans of G1 tech specs and art, whereas Dr. Sigma's site only shares the textual component but not the artwork.

So if there has been any counterfeiting being done at TakaraTOMY's factory, I would be mightily surprised if it were sanctioned by TakaraTOMY themselves. I suspect it would be more likely to be rogue elements at the factory doing it without TakTOM's knowledge. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why HasTak are considering moving manufacturing away from China to Vietnam (some BotShots are made in Vietnam if you check their copyright stamps).

Though in the paranoid world (I suspect myself being quite paranoid myself sometimes) the absence of KOs in Japan could be used to throw off the idea that they may be, though what you said is much more plausible.

It's a tricky subject, I'll admit. We'll probably never know.

Also, haven't noticed this myself, but have the presence of KOs on sites such as eBay boosted the prices of legit, vintage G1 figures? I haven't been in TFs for long on eBay so I wouldn't know, but someone with experience in the trend of sales of G1 figures on eBay could provide some light on it? Just a thought.

[5FDP]

Also, haven't noticed this myself, but have the presence of KOs on sites such as eBay boosted the prices of legit, vintage G1 figures?

It's had the opposite effect actually in that prices for vintage have gone down.

I remember prior to the KO and prior to the TT reissue (which came after), Ratbat was selling for well over $100. When the KO was released, the prices came down to about $80 and then when the reissue came along, I saw them as cheap as $20.

My guess is that with KO's being so common these days on eBay, it's scaring off buyers and making it harder for legit sellers.

[kup]

I simply think the 'accurate' KOs of recent released toys such as Masterpiece Grimlock are simply extra 'silent manufacturing runs' that the contracted factory does once their 'official' run is over.

Tak-Tom/Hasbro don't do anything about it because they couldn't be assed to do so.

[tron07]

I simply think the 'accurate' KOs of recent released toys such as Masterpiece Grimlock are simply extra 'silent manufacturing runs' that the contracted factory does once their 'official' run is over.

Tak-Tom/Hasbro don't do anything about it because they couldn't be assed to do so.

Is there a KO MP Grimlock?

My MP is still MISB, so wouldnt mind getting a cheapo version to play then let my daughter have a whack at it.

[drifand]

Is there a KO MP Grimlock?

My MP is still MISB, so wouldnt mind getting a cheapo version to play then let my daughter have a whack at it.

There are MP Grimlocks without box if you search on Ebay.
They look accurate to the T if you ask me from my eye sight. I am happy FOR ANYONE to POINT out ANY differences that you know or heard.

[GoktimusPrime]

My MP is still MISB, so wouldnt mind getting a cheapo version to play then let my daughter have a whack at it.

There's a Robot Heroes Optimus Prime who transforms into a dinosaur coming out. Also, there are going to be those [Transformers Movie spoiler ahead - tagged] simplified Age of Extinction toys aimed at younger kids.