If rampant internet speculation is true that's what NX will be. It won't be, but one can wish.Originally Posted by kup
I've been playing Splatoon, I'm surprised I like it so much. Haven't been to into online shooters since Quake III.
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If rampant internet speculation is true that's what NX will be. It won't be, but one can wish.
I've been playing Splatoon, I'm surprised I like it so much. Haven't been to into online shooters since Quake III.
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Yeah, I am very curious about the NX and although internet speculation does portray the system as the 'saviour' of Nintendo by bringing them to the 21st century, I am also in the doubt that it is that.
Basically as a Youtube commentator said, Nintendo is ran by old men who still think it's the 1980s and 90s. They refuse to budge from their obsolete ideals and practices. Back in the 80s and 90s Nintendo was a huge innovator and seemed to be willing to try out new technologies to stay ahead of the curve and that indeed worked for them with massive success. However by the time the mid to late 90s arrived, they decided to stop innovating and begun sticking to what they know worked for them without letting go. You can see those disastrous practices in the well documented SNES CD debacle and their persistence on sticking to cartridges for the N64 when the rest of the industry had moved on. That Pig headed thinking is actually what ended up given rise to Sony but they still don't seem to have learned.
The most innovating thing they did post 2000 was probably trying to reach out to the casual market with the Wii and the 'lame' motion control games like wiifit and whatnot. That allowed them to sell a shit load of consoles despite the severe HW deficiencies of the Wii which was basically two gamecubes stuck together as well as all their shovel ware they kept putting out to maintain their attention. However as the WiiU has shown, casual gamers don't stick around and quickly move on to other things so with the Wii 'casual gamer priority' practices, they managed to further alienate much of the dedicated gamers who moved on to other consoles and of course, the 3P developers go where they can find the most audience with less hassles.
Unfortunately Nintendo is still sticking to their guns in regards to the 'hassles' for both 3P developers and consumers. They refuse to update their practices when it comes to regions, they refuse to fully accept User based online inter-connectivity (basically your console is the account so if you loose it - bad luck). I can't buy a Virtual Console title on the Wii U and also play it on the 3DS, they refuse to have standard Dolby/DTS surround sound features and don't know how to properly implement MPCM - They don't want to make their console a multimedia machine so it doesn't have a bluray player and although Apps like Netflix exists, it is limited by region as well as much of their online library.
The hassles that 3P developers face are well known with abhorrent licensing fees and demands. There is also the non-standard HW that is not worth developing for since most of the gaming audience has moved on to more standardised 'x86' based consoles which are more developer friendly.
As long as the current mob is there like Iwata, I have no hope of seeing much that will bring Nintendo into the 21st century and into a commanding lead once again in the gaming industry. They need new blood there who appreciates the legacy of the company as well as the progress of the industry.
Happy Birthday Hursti and congrats on the new PC! I have always felt that the PC is the definitive gaming platform. It is cheap to built if you know what you are doing and always remains ahead of the technology curve if properly maintained which is no more than a couple of hundred bucks every 3-5 years. In the long run, it comes out cheaper than keeping up with consoles and always with superior graphics and sound if plugged in properly.I built this Beast for my 30th Birthday gift to myself...
The aim was to build a "Mid-Spec" machine that'd last the next 5 years at least, being able to handle Carmageddon: Reincarnation & Doom(4), but also so I could simply play games at all as my outgoing PC had just been thoroughly used and had met the end of its life (Being built in mid '08).
It'll also allow me to get better accustomed with a modern Windows environment, as I've been using XP since, oooooooh... '02?
I should also be able to do what I do with PCs a little quicker too, hopefully being able to now rip my Cartoon DVD collection as easily as my CD collection!
In recent years, I have moved away from 'desktop' gaming and moved my gaming PC to the living room. It is difficult to go back when you are playing your favourite game on a big TV screen and running your sound through a Surround Sound system.
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I disagree with pretty much everything you've said
Nintendo hardware was never really ahead of any curves. Gameboy for instance (I was an Atari Lynx man!). You could argue SNES but it was a few years after Megadrive and so by that time bound to be stronger hardware. You say they stopped innovating but then go on to say they innovated with the Wii... which, shovelware aside (Nintendo themselves don't make shovelware, they just let other companies release it, like Sony did on PS1 & 2 etc), had profound impact on the industry.
While motion controls themselves are pretty much gone from the other systems, they're alive and kicking on mobile. The 'ease of use' they promoted back then is still in full force industry wide, as most developers agree games have become too complicated and everyone is trying to get back to the simplicity of past generations.
The original Nintendo DS had shitty hardware just like all their handhelds before (and after) but the introduction of secondary screen, and most obviously touch based gameplay - they were the forerunners of this while people were still playing Snake on their Nokias pretty much. Now virtually every mobile game owes something to Nintendo's work on the DS.
They are no doubt the slowest to change, something i think owes more to the fact that they're Japanese than that they're old. Old may be responsible for being overly cautious though.
You have to remember they're primarily a games developer and have lacked sufficient in house OS and networking capability for far too long. Unlike Microsoft who obviously have OS experience. Until recently Sony's network stuff was pretty crap as well for basically the same reasons. Not excusing Nintendo, but they have made strides - a bit late - but at least now their online has at least been stable, and if they're to be believed, should be improving greatly in the coming years with proper accounts and inter-system purchases.
They may be slow and stubborn, but the heads of company are some of the most clued in people in the industry - especially in terms of understanding what makes a good game still, and that hasn't and probably never will change. You should have a read if you haven't already, of some of their financial briefings and Q&A sessions here: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/index.html , where it becomes quite obvious Iwata is the best person to be running the company.
If you read back a few and see the path they've taken to approaching DLC come to fruition for instance... where they are pretty much the only company not trying to completely rip people off ... it's hard not to have some admiration for that in this day and age.
Iwata's stance on the impact of 'race to the bottom' pricing structure (from his GDC speech) will one day soon be looked back upon as completely correct as well, whereas pretty much everyone else in the industry was clueless to it at the time.
While you could argue they don't innovate in hardware in the fashion you're after, they do in others, and it's undeniable that they're the best at innovating in software. Look no further than Splatoon, essentially a completely unique take on the shooter genre. 20 years after Doom, it's not an easy thing to reinvent and yet on basically their first go, they put together a complete, fun and awesome new game.
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I hope Nintendo don't over correct the course. I'd hate to see them become like the other two and rely on 3rd party game exclusives*, paid peer-to-peer online and multimedia features I won't use (Surely that's got to be unnecessary by next gen with smart tv's and phones that can screen-stream)
I like that they are stuck in the past for most things, I don't like what consoles have turned into. If it wasn't for the Wii U I'd be PC exclusive this gen.
*this exclusive is on PC and will be on the other system in 6 months when the GOTY ED releases.
Meh, screw it all. I'll go play my Mega Drive instead
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Sony pisses me off the most cause a lot of their 1st party games are really good but they're so few and far between. I want the sequel to Gravity Rush they've been promising for a few years now... i want Gran Turismo on PS Vita... and the less said about The Last Guardian the better!
Nintendo's output is unmatched. They don't get enough credit for single handedly supporting their systems... Sony or MS couldn't do it if they didn't have the 3rd party support (hence why they place so much importance on it). Nintendo has more and better quality output than any other single developer, and in some cases, multiple developers.
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I should of made myself a bit more clear - I was referring mostly to the HW specs of the home consoles not the handhelds. However I do believe that it is ridiculous that they do not offer interconnectivity from 3DS to Wii/WiiU in the sense of Virtual Console games that are available on both and their odd 'Console is the account' policy which baffles me.I disagree with pretty much everything you've said
Nintendo hardware was never really ahead of any curves. Gameboy for instance (I was an Atari Lynx man!). You could argue SNES but it was a few years after Megadrive and so by that time bound to be stronger hardware. You say they stopped innovating but then go on to say they innovated with the Wii... which, shovelware aside (Nintendo themselves don't make shovelware, they just let other companies release it, like Sony did on PS1 & 2 etc), had profound impact on the industry.
While motion controls themselves are pretty much gone from the other systems, they're alive and kicking on mobile. The 'ease of use' they promoted back then is still in full force industry wide, as most developers agree games have become too complicated and everyone is trying to get back to the simplicity of past generations.
The original Nintendo DS had shitty hardware just like all their handhelds before (and after) but the introduction of secondary screen, and most obviously touch based gameplay - they were the forerunners of this while people were still playing Snake on their Nokias pretty much. Now virtually every mobile game owes something to Nintendo's work on the DS.
They are no doubt the slowest to change, something i think owes more to the fact that they're Japanese than that they're old. Old may be responsible for being overly cautious though.
You have to remember they're primarily a games developer and have lacked sufficient in house OS and networking capability for far too long. Unlike Microsoft who obviously have OS experience. Until recently Sony's network stuff was pretty crap as well for basically the same reasons. Not excusing Nintendo, but they have made strides - a bit late - but at least now their online has at least been stable, and if they're to be believed, should be improving greatly in the coming years with proper accounts and inter-system purchases.
They may be slow and stubborn, but the heads of company are some of the most clued in people in the industry - especially in terms of understanding what makes a good game still, and that hasn't and probably never will change. You should have a read if you haven't already, of some of their financial briefings and Q&A sessions here: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/index.html , where it becomes quite obvious Iwata is the best person to be running the company.
If you read back a few and see the path they've taken to approaching DLC come to fruition for instance... where they are pretty much the only company not trying to completely rip people off ... it's hard not to have some admiration for that in this day and age.
Iwata's stance on the impact of 'race to the bottom' pricing structure (from his GDC speech) will one day soon be looked back upon as completely correct as well, whereas pretty much everyone else in the industry was clueless to it at the time.
While you could argue they don't innovate in hardware in the fashion you're after, they do in others, and it's undeniable that they're the best at innovating in software. Look no further than Splatoon, essentially a completely unique take on the shooter genre. 20 years after Doom, it's not an easy thing to reinvent and yet on basically their first go, they put together a complete, fun and awesome new game.
I don't want Nintendo to become Sony but it needs to at least become more appealing to third party developers and convince majority of gamers that it is a primary choice for a console rather than something you have on the side for their exclusives if they wish to increase their market share.
When it comes to innovation, I did mention that they did innovate with the motion stuff to appeal to the casual gamer but everything else remained somewhat behind. One of the reasons that the Wii seems to have a lot of shovel ware is that it was so behind the curve technically that not many modern 3P games could really run on it without some compromise but 3Ps still wanted to publish on it due to the high rate of casual gamers. Yeah, motion control was innovate but that's about it and that innovation didn't bring much to the table.
When it comes to the SNES, it was very much in front - Perhaps not as powerful as the NEO GEO but it did provide excellent performance at a good price point. They were also willing to improve the system in any way they could such as by introducing the FX chip which allowed the SNES to handle polygons a lot more efficient than previously as the Megadrive had proven better at it with Another World.
Nintendo is king when it comes to innovative games and gameplay - There is no denying that but they are loosing their market share because people are only buying their consoles for that alone and as a business, that may not be enough.
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Their market share interests me in one sense, enough to pay attention to it... but ultimately as long as they're still making games i couldn't care less even if i was the only one playing them
Regarding the Virtual Console... tbh i've had enough of buying roms period. Maybe cause i tended to buy games i already have or had already played...
The reality for me is half those ancient games aren't worth the price they're charging regardless of how many systems i could play it on
I do think it sucks which systems are emulated on which new machines though. 3DS should really have SNES and DS games downloadable from the shop. Why they've got GBA games on the Wii U's shop i have no idea!
But i think if i were in their position, i'd also be reluctant to have the cross buy feature as well. I mean, coming from historically where you buy a game for a specific console, it changes the entire business model to have it work on several consoles. As a longtime gamer i actually feel like i'm ripping off Sony when i cross buy on PlayStation, but ultimately i'm not complaining of course
Another World... i had that on SNES! I never saw the Mega Drive version, was it really much different? There's no real need for that kind of (SFX chip) innovation anymore though, the systems are more than powerful enough to handle any concepts they can come up with.
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I played a lot of Another World on the MD. It was mighty impressive, although really just a game long quick time event. Didn't know it was on SNES too.
Off to youtube!
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VC runs on an emulator, the game is not made from scratch, it's a rom as you mentioned. There isn't much development time on that and they already have the same tittles on both. All you need is something that tells you that you already own that game so you can download it to your console similar how Steam allows you to download games you own from any computer you have.Their market share interests me in one sense, enough to pay attention to it... but ultimately as long as they're still making games i couldn't care less even if i was the only one playing them
Regarding the Virtual Console... tbh i've had enough of buying roms period. Maybe cause i tended to buy games i already have or had already played...
The reality for me is half those ancient games aren't worth the price they're charging regardless of how many systems i could play it on
I do think it sucks which systems are emulated on which new machines though. 3DS should really have SNES and DS games downloadable from the shop. Why they've got GBA games on the Wii U's shop i have no idea!
But i think if i were in their position, i'd also be reluctant to have the cross buy feature as well. I mean, coming from historically where you buy a game for a specific console, it changes the entire business model to have it work on several consoles. As a longtime gamer i actually feel like i'm ripping off Sony when i cross buy on PlayStation, but ultimately i'm not complaining of course
Another World... i had that on SNES! I never saw the Mega Drive version, was it really much different? There's no real need for that kind of (SFX chip) innovation anymore though, the systems are more than powerful enough to handle any concepts they can come up with.
Another World was still good and pretty much the same on the SNES as the Megadrive as far as I know with some music changes. However the Megadrive had noticeably smoother animation and back in the day, it really reinforced the 'Blast processing' argument on the Sega side.
I did not say that we need a new FX chip, what I meant is that we need Nintendo to be striving to be better than their competitors and not resign themselves as a 'side console' only there for the exclusives.
Last edited by kup; 15th June 2015 at 10:48 AM.
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The mega drive had a better CPU than the snes (hence the slowdown of some games) but the snes had a much Better graphical performance, but that also came down to 3rd party's poor programing as well.
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