Things you never realised about Transformers (toys etc)

[GoktimusPrime]

Fair point, although it's not unheard of for people to "trademark squat" by taking trademarks and doing nothing with them (but continuing to register them so noone else can use them). Kinda like a form of intellectual property hoarding. *cough*HarmonyGold*cough*

[Zommael]

Fair point, although it's not unheard of for people to "trademark squat" by taking trademarks and doing nothing with them (but continuing to register them so noone else can use them). Kinda like a form of intellectual property hoarding. *cough*HarmonyGold*cough*

Not unheard of, but difficult. If say a company called Symphony Bronze was squatting on the Weirdfwolf name, Hasbro would be able to take action against them, and they would have to prove either that they have used the trademark recently or have definite plans to use it - this is how Hasbro were able to lose names like Bumblebee back in the 90s, since they couldn't prove recent use or that they were about to use it. It's also bad for the company who holds the trademark as it may force them to give away their plans - for example Hasbro might have been forced into revealing the existence of the movie if someone had challenged their registration of Bumblebee back in 2004.

[GoktimusPrime]

I wonder how quickly a company can lose a trademark after disuse. It might be as quickly as a year (which would explain why Hasbro are so keen on releasing lots of toys named "Optimus Prime" and "Megatron" every year; although I think they've gone a tad overboard (they would only need to release one of each per year) ).

e.g. Bumblebee and Hound; the last time Hasbro used these names before they lost them was in 1995; G2 Go-Bot Bumblebee and the never released G2 Autoroller Sgt. Hound. My presumption has been that toys like BW Buzz Saw and K-9 were assigned these names because Hasbro had lost the rights to Bumblebee and Hound by this stage. Although those toys were released in 1997, Hasbro would've needed to register the names in 1996 well before their release, so their application for those names may have been knocked back as early as just one year after having registered them for the final year of G2 in '95.

Hasbro last used the name "Laserbeak" in 1985 and had lost it by 1997, hence the BW character's name had the cringeworthy spelling of "Lazorbeak." Hasbro last used the name "Weirdwolf" in 2007, which feels like yesterday to me, but was actually 9 freakin' years ago. So yeah... definitely possible that they might've lost the rights to the name in the meantime.

But it's also interesting to imagine why they can't just keep it a "less intrusive" variation, like "Decepticon Weirdwolf" or "Decepticon Weirdwulf" (wulf being German for wolf), or "Oddwolf" or "Oddwulf" or something like that. Wolfwire... Okay, he's a wolf. Wire? Still, I'll take Wolfwire over Tankor or Scattorwolf.

[Zommael]

I wonder how quickly a company can lose a trademark after disuse. It might be as quickly as a year (which would explain why Hasbro are so keen on releasing lots of toys named "Optimus Prime" and "Megatron" every year; although I think they've gone a tad overboard (they would only need to release one of each per year) ).

e.g. Bumblebee and Hound; the last time Hasbro used these names before they lost them was in 1995; G2 Go-Bot Bumblebee and the never released G2 Autoroller Sgt. Hound. My presumption has been that toys like BW Buzz Saw and K-9 were assigned these names because Hasbro had lost the rights to Bumblebee and Hound by this stage. Although those toys were released in 1997, Hasbro would've needed to register the names in 1996 well before their release, so their application for those names may have been knocked back as early as just one year after having registered them for the final year of G2 in '95.

Hasbro last used the name "Laserbeak" in 1985 and had lost it by 1997, hence the BW character's name had the cringeworthy spelling of "Lazorbeak." Hasbro last used the name "Weirdwolf" in 2007, which feels like yesterday to me, but was actually 9 freakin' years ago. So yeah... definitely possible that they might've lost the rights to the name in the meantime.

But it's also interesting to imagine why they can't just keep it a "less intrusive" variation, like "Decepticon Weirdwolf" or "Decepticon Weirdwulf" (wulf being German for wolf), or "Oddwolf" or "Oddwulf" or something like that. Wolfwire... Okay, he's a wolf. Wire? Still, I'll take Wolfwire over Tankor or Scattorwolf.

As I understand it, it's an odd little area of law in which there is not a lot of certainty. Long and consistent use certainly strengthens a trademark though: it's unlikely any company (even LG with their Optimus phone) would ever be able to use Optimus Prime as Hasbro have so consistently used and protected the trademark, and it's so strongly connected to the brand. I would imagine that even if they didn't reuse it for 10 years Optimus Prime would still be too strong a mark for anyone to challenge. On the other hand, a mark like Slugslinger might be a lot harder to hold on to since it doesn't have that prominent association. There's certainly no rule that says they must use the trademark at least once in one period of time.

It's also worth pointing out that trademarks can be held in different areas. Hasbro could stop releasing all Transformers toys tomorrow (DON'T GET ANY IDEAS HASBRO) and if IDW were still publishing the comics they would be able to hold on to the trademarks at least in the area of comic book publishing.

I know that a lot of the above has been stated before but it's always worth talking about this when it comes up, especially as I still see some fans talking about Hasbro "losing the copyright" and other uneducated responses when talking about name changes and other IP issues. I recently saw someone speculating that Titans Return Clobber is so named because Hasbro lost the trademark on Grimlock, which is very unlikely given how much they've used it lately. BTW, the more likely explanation is they're trying to avoid confusion between this version of Grimlock and ARID Grimlock.

[GoktimusPrime]

It's also worth pointing out that trademarks can be held in different areas. Hasbro could stop releasing all Transformers toys tomorrow (DON'T GET ANY IDEAS HASBRO) and if IDW were still publishing the comics they would be able to hold on to the trademarks at least in the area of comic book publishing.

Really? Because Hasbro were unable to even use "Autobot Jazz" for the Alternator toy and had to call it "Meister." I thought it was because Alternators were semi-classified as model cars rather than just action figures and maybe "Jazz" sounded too similar to the Honda Jazz. Also, writers are able to use trademarked names that are different to what Hasbro can use on product. e.g. in the films, cartoons, comics etc., characters like "Ratchet" and "Jazz" are just called that, not "Autobot Ratchet" or "Autobot Jazz." But on any packaging or tech specs bio, they always have to use "Autobot Ratchet" or "Autobot Jazz" etc. IDW were also able to use the name "Octane," and only started using the name "Tankor" after the Universe toy was released. Then Hasbro released Generations Tankor and IDW made up the nicknames "Fat Tankor" and "Tall Tankor" to distinguish them apart in the eyes of other characters.

Other discrepancies include:
* Noble/Savage ---> Beast Changer
* Tidal Wave ---> Shockwave (at the time Hasbro didn't have the trademark for Shockwave, hence some toys were called "Shockblast")
* Rodimus ---> Hot Rod (he later changed his name to Rodimus in the IDW comics; even his Spotlight issue was called "Hot Rod")

I can understand trademarking "Optimus Prime", but just "optimus"? 'Optimus' is simply the Latin word for "best," surely that should be considered too generic for anyone to trademark. If you're going to trademark "optimus," then what about "bonus" (good) or "melius" (better)?
bonus・melius・optimus = good, better, best

I recently saw someone speculating that Titans Return Clobber is so named because Hasbro lost the trademark on Grimlock, which is very unlikely given how much they've used it lately. BTW, the more likely explanation is they're trying to avoid confusion between this version of Grimlock and ARID Grimlock.

Or why can't Clobber just be a whole new character?

[Zommael]

Really? Because Hasbro were unable to even use "Autobot Jazz" for the Alternator toy and had to call it "Meister." I thought it was because Alternators were semi-classified as model cars rather than just action figures and maybe "Jazz" sounded too similar to the Honda Jazz. Also, writers are able to use trademarked names that are different to what Hasbro can use on product. e.g. in the films, cartoons, comics etc., characters like "Ratchet" and "Jazz" are just called that, not "Autobot Ratchet" or "Autobot Jazz." But on any packaging or tech specs bio, they always have to use "Autobot Ratchet" or "Autobot Jazz" etc. IDW were also able to use the name "Octane," and only started using the name "Tankor" after the Universe toy was released. Then Hasbro released Generations Tankor and IDW made up the nicknames "Fat Tankor" and "Tall Tankor" to distinguish them apart in the eyes of other characters.

Other discrepancies include:
* Noble/Savage ---> Beast Changer
* Tidal Wave ---> Shockwave (at the time Hasbro didn't have the trademark for Shockwave, hence some toys were called "Shockblast")
* Rodimus ---> Hot Rod (he later changed his name to Rodimus in the IDW comics; even his Spotlight issue was called "Hot Rod")

I can understand trademarking "Optimus Prime", but just "optimus"? 'Optimus' is simply the Latin word for "best," surely that should be considered too generic for anyone to trademark. If you're going to trademark "optimus," then what about "bonus" (good) or "melius" (better)?
bonus・melius・optimus = good, better, best

In the case of Jazz, you're probably quite right about the Alternators=model cars thing. Just because there are areas doesn't mean a Trademark in one area can't be used to protect another. In the case of Jazz, Honda would hold the mark in the automobile area. Hasbro want to use it for a toy, that's fine, but marks for automobiles are also enforceable in the model car area, and therefore Hasbro are blocked.

In the case of the comics, the fact that they use the names doesn't mean they use the trademarks. The only trademarks that are probably held by Hasbro or IDW for the comic book area are probably "Transformers" "More Than Meets The Eye" and "Robots in Disguise". They wouldn't even need to trademark Optimus Prime in that area because their existing marks would already be enforceable. There very likely isn't a trademark for "Hot Rod" in the comic book area and therefore they can use the name with wild abandon. This happens all the time - Batman is definitely a trademark but ordinary names like Alfred Pennyworth, Jason Todd, Barbara Gordon are no doubt untrademarkable, because they're just people's names.

What I meant was, LG can use "Optimus" for their cell phones but I doubt they could use "Optimus Prime" for the new, improved model. In any case, while optimus is an ordinary Latin word, since Latin is a dead language, terms taken from it are probably viewed as esoteric enough to be used as Trademarks.

Or why can't Clobber just be a whole new character?

Because Hasbro says he isn't, apparently. Why they thought "Clobber" was a good enough new name for G1 Grimlock is beyond me though.

[GoktimusPrime]

What I meant was, LG can use "Optimus" for their cell phones but I doubt they could use "Optimus Prime" for the new, improved model. In any case, while optimus is an ordinary Latin word, since Latin is a dead language, terms taken from it are probably viewed as esoteric enough to be used as Trademarks.

Yeah, that's what I meant too. Cool. And Latin is "dead" because there are no longer any native speakers of it since the Middle Ages, but there are still plenty of people who speak it (it's the official language of the Vatican); it's just that it's only ever spoken as people's second language. A language which has absolutely no more speakers at all is an extinct language (like many Australian languages).

Because Hasbro says he isn't, apparently. Why they thought "Clobber" was a good enough new name for G1 Grimlock is beyond me though.

Okay, that is stupid.