Much Ado About Pretenders

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

So, essentially a Beast wars character with a Tm accessory then?

Pardon me for saying, but isn't that just a rehash of Beast Wars? With extra bits?

[Verno]

So, essentially a Beast wars character with a Tm accessory then?

Pardon me for saying, but isn't that just a rehash of Beast Wars? With extra bits?

Catilla, Carnivac, Chainclaw and Snarler aren't Beast Wars characters. They do have organic outer shells however.

[GoktimusPrime]

Catilla, Carnivac, Chainclaw and Snarler aren't Beast Wars characters. They do have organic outer shells however.

^True. Those are all Middle G1 characters.

[Demonac]

I always thought of Pretenders as being part of the evolution of transforrmers.
At first TF's can only transform into mechanical beasts, with no organic material.
Pretender technology allows them to hide inside a non transforming organic 'shell'.
BW is the final step, integrating the organic mode into the transformation.

What you seem to be describing Verno, are Pretender era characters using BW era transformations (with targetmasters).

[Zommael]

I always thought of Pretenders as being part of the evolution of transforrmers.
At first TF's can only transform into mechanical beasts, with no organic material.
Pretender technology allows them to hide inside a non transforming organic 'shell'.
BW is the final step, integrating the organic mode into the transformation.

What you seem to be describing Verno, are Pretender era characters using BW era transformations (with targetmasters).

I agree. You have mostly mechanical modes in early G1, followed by the introduction of the Dinobots. You then have further development of mechanical beasts throughout G1, seeming to evolve from the Dinobots as opposed to Soundwave's cassettes, which transform into beast-like robots rather than having a beast alt mode. Then the Headmasters actually integrate organics as well as the Decepticon types having sophisticated beast modes. Pretenders are the final evolutionary step before true Beasts, which then evolve into the techno-organics at the end of Beast Machines.

[GoktimusPrime]

I always thought of Pretenders as being part of the evolution of transforrmers.
At first TF's can only transform into mechanical beasts, with no organic material.
Pretender technology allows them to hide inside a non transforming organic 'shell'.
BW is the final step, integrating the organic mode into the transformation.

That's actually a fairly accurate description of how the Transformers evolved as toys. Initially they only produced Transformers with mechanical bestial modes (e.g. Dinobots, bestial cassette robots, Predacons etc.). Hasbro later actually wanted to create Transformers that could transform into humans. Takara felt that they wouldn't be able to achieve this, and thus pitched a counter-proposal into creating vehicular Transformers that could fit inside human shells, and somewhere along the line it was decided that only Autobots would be humans and the Decepticons would be monsters. Deck then humans out in Warhammer/Starcraft-esque space marine armour, and presto - Pretendaaah!

And of course, Transformers engineering had progressed significantly enough during the mid to late G2 years that HasTak saw that they were finally able to create proper bestial-moded Transformers, Beast Wars was born and set a whole new standard for Transformers ever since.

[Verno]

What you seem to be describing Verno, are Pretender era characters using BW era transformations (with targetmasters).

That sums it up perfectly, yeah.

[GoktimusPrime]

I think it'd be an interesting idea and it would hearken back to what Hasbro had originally intended for Pretenders to be back in 1988. IDW's Carnivac is a good example of this. Even Bayformers gave us something like this with Alice (although the completely kibble-free robot mode was utter rubbish). I wouldn't mind seeing G1 Pretender characters revisited where they actually transform into their Pretender shells as alt modes. The Pretender Beasts would probably be the most marketable ones to start off with, because they'd essentially be BW TFs with G1 robot modes (like Carnivac). The more adventurous options would be other Pretenders. Would people want to buy robots that transform into humans or monsters? Of course we would, but would the general market be able to absorb it? I'm just not sure if it's commercially viable.

The Pretender Beasts should be doable though - if toys like Generations Waspinator, Rhinox and BW MPs can sell, then I see no reason why a Generations Carnivac, Catilla, Chainclaw or Snarler wouldn't sell. Also, their original alt modes were just robotic versions of their outer shells. Doing non-Pretender Beasts as modern toys might be trickier because what about their original alt modes? e.g. Generations Cloudburst might transform from robot to Femaxian-Queen attracting human, but what about his jet mode? Bludgeon may transform from a robot to patriotically Dutch samurai Skeletor, but what about his tank mode? Previous modern toy versions of Pretenders have just focused on a vehicular alt mode with the robot mode being inspired by the Pretender shell or original robot mode, but never both. Movieverse Bludgeon is a good example of this - the first toy, a redeco of Wreckage, was a homage to Bludgeon's G1 robot mode. The Pretender shell form was completely ignored. The Revenge of the Fallen figure had a tank mode inspired by Bludgeon's G1 alt mode, but the robot mode was purely based on the Pretender shell. The original robot mode was completely ignored. BotCon 2015's Oilmaster's robots are redecos of Generations Swerve and Flanker with a new Pretender shell - the robots do not transform into the shell.

What I'm saying is that we've never seen a G1 Pretender inspired contemporary Transformer that could triple-change between robot, alt mode and shell. I don't know if this is even possible, at least not without invariably compromising the toy's design/engineering. The closest we got was arguably Thunderwing (and thus by extension Black Shadow) - the robot was based on the shell which could transform into the shell's alt mode, but it also came with a detachable drone which resembled the original robot's alt mode (but doesn't transform into a small robot).

[Verno]

Groundbreaker, Sky High and Splashdown have bestial motifs on their Pretender shell chests -- a tiger, bird and shark respectively. This could be played upon, so their outer bodies are organic beasts like Carnivac and Catilla.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Would people want to buy robots that transform into humans? Of course we would

I wouldn't - I find the concept quite boring. Give me giant robots that turn into tanks and jets and trains and space cruisers! A robot that turns into a guy that looks like he serves burgers or cuts hair - dull as dishwater. Frag all playability compared to a robot that turns into a sports car or helicopter too.

That said, I would have bought an ROTF 'Alice' figure if they had made one