MV75 watches Beast Wars

[kup]

well i dont want to spoil anything

but "Theft of the golden disk" was a prequel web episode made years after the Beast wars tv show

its just a prequel

Its best not to read/watch that stuff until you finish watching the show. You get more out of it that way.

Edit: Typo

[GoktimusPrime]

Vehicles have seams that can come apart, animals don't.

Are you serious? Look at where most Transformers' alt mode are coming apart at - it's not where normal seams would occur in a vehicle! It would literally involve ripping or shreading metal panels and glass windows!!

Plus if it's "fake" then how does a beast mode protect against stasis lock from energon buildup?

It acts as a form of shield/armour. Similar to Pretender shells in G1.

And what do they need to be in disguise for? There is no reason for that particular reason in this series, just to avoid a stasis lock, otherwise the beast modes were just handy for their abilities.

The only time I noticed that beast mode was handy was in Law of the Jungle when waspinator got tricked into thinking that Tigatrons mate was Tigatron. Otherwise they all seem to automagically know that the beast they see is a maximal/predacon. Oh yea, and when Tigatron first appeared, Megatron just thought they were just normal tigers.

Disguise is only one of several functions of a Transformer's alt mode. It's not as if the G1 and G2 Transformers were always in disguise when they were in alt mode. Remember the Dinobots in the G1 comics? Optimus Prime intentionally tried to detain them at Autobot HQ as much as possible because their dino modes did not work as disguises and instead served to scare humans. The Dinobots eventually became frustrated and angry with this decision and lashed out.

Actually, I meant "Chain of Command", where the alien probe sucked up optimus. The presence of the alien thing was pretty good.

Minor potential spoiler: Those aliens are really cool from G2 continuity POV IMO

Kidding right? I just know you're taking the piss right there. I'm now up to just finished watching "Coming of the fuzors pt2" And plenty of comical things there.

Rat with wheels that does burnout sounds. Hell, a rat with wheels full stop. And a cheetor that flies. Nevermind the monkey on a flying surfboard.

Waspinator and silverbolt with tyre screeches in mid air as they stop. And the thing that Silverbolt is.

Bulging eyes from when they threw the rock in the air to show what would happen if cheetor flew out from cover.

Dinobot being out of ammo, but then riding on rattrap in "car mode" with flaming exhausts and all, and suddenly having ammo for his gun again.

Yea, pretty cut down dude.

まぢむかつくぅ　

First of all, I never said that it was completely devoid of comedic elements. I merely said that it was toned down compared to season 1.
Secondly, FINISH watching all of Season 2 before judging its comedic:serious ratio. I challenge you to call Season 2 "light hearted" after watching the entire series.

Of course there will always be some more light hearted elements - this show is also designed to appeal to kids as well as adults. If you want to watch a TF show that is almost entirely devoid of light heartedness, go watch Beast Machines (of course, you'll need to finish watching Beast Wars first since BM is the sequel to BW).

So their heads run on remote control when detached?

They sometimes did in G1, e.g.: Optimus Prime.

You'd think though that being cubed and also shocked and stripped into parts, (waspinator), that the spark chamber would have been destroyed. Same as taking excessive (blown to bits) damage.

Well evidently Waspy's spark chamber is extremely hardy and has yet to be destroyed. Waspinator is the TF equivalent to Kenny from South Park if you haven't figured it out yet btw.

Yea, all fine and good for the 90's, but I've come to expect more now.

Even though the toys came out in 1996... (-_-)
So I guess if you never saw G1 and you saw G1 now and came to like the comics or show that you would apply contemporary standards on the toys and have no interest in collecting them?

And I can't believe you even put blackarachnia in there. That toy was bad, very incredibly beyond forgivable bad.

Why? What's wrong with the toy? And don't say "it's not show-accurate" because the toy came out before the show so it's not the toy's fault that the show designers decided to tweak the show model to make her look more different from Tarantulas (since the toy is just a repaint). They've also tweaked Tigatron's show model to make him look different from Cheetor too, even though the toys are the same mould. But I don't begrudge the toys for those decisions made by animators. Blackarachnia has a reasonably solid and decent beast and robot modes - I don't think the Tarantulas/Blackarachnia mode is substantially better or worse than most other Deluxe TFs released around 1996/97... and it's better than say Dinobot (great character, ordinary toy).

Also yea, I do have cybertron prime and megatron beasts, they look right out of this cartoon. Those were pretty well done.

That would be because those toys were made eight years after the Beast Wars cartoon debuted whereas the Tarantulas/Blackarachnia mould was created a year before the cartoon.

Same as Silverbolt. I'm still trying to take in whatever he is, but the character seems likeable enough so far.

The Fuzors were a pretty weird idea and most of the Fuzor toys were pretty... blecch. They were like Transformers meets the Wuzzles. Silverbolt and Quickstrike are the best of the Fuzor toys though... they're nowhere near as bad as say... Injector. *shudder*

[MV75]

Are you serious? Look at where most Transformers' alt mode are coming apart at - it's not where normal seams would occur in a vehicle! It would literally involve ripping or shreading metal panels and glass windows!!


It acts as a form of shield/armour. Similar to Pretender shells in G1.

Point taken. But if it was organic, then there would have to be some sort of blood supply going to it to keep it alive. That's how skin works.

Disguise is only one of several functions of a Transformer's alt mode. It's not as if the G1 and G2 Transformers were always in disguise when they were in alt mode. Remember the Dinobots in the G1 comics? Optimus Prime intentionally tried to detain them at Autobot HQ as much as possible because their dino modes did not work as disguises and instead served to scare humans. The Dinobots eventually became frustrated and angry with this decision and lashed out.

Comics? Good one. (I had comics as a kid, but hardly remember them now, and yea, I generally don't read comics).

We're talking beast wars here.

まぢむかつくぅ　

First of all, I never said that it was completely devoid of comedic elements. I merely said that it was toned down compared to season 1.
Secondly, FINISH watching all of Season 2 before judging its comedic:serious ratio. I challenge you to call Season 2 "light hearted" after watching the entire series.

Of course there will always be some more light hearted elements - this show is also designed to appeal to kids as well as adults. If you want to watch a TF show that is almost entirely devoid of light heartedness, go watch Beast Machines (of course, you'll need to finish watching Beast Wars first since BM is the sequel to BW).

Light hearted? No, but plenty of exaggerated and super deformed moments are still there. Even moreso.

Even though the toys came out in 1996... (-_-)
So I guess if you never saw G1 and you saw G1 now and came to like the comics or show that you would apply contemporary standards on the toys and have no interest in collecting them?

The 90's is 1996. Let me know if there is a Goktimus guide to time travel.

Anyway, yea, they were fine for their day if you were a collector then. I'm collecting now and they are absolutly horrible by the standards I expect today. I hope you understand that and can shift your train of thought.

As for the G1 comparison, that's a clouded judgement by the fact that beast wars is still beasts, I don't want meat beast toys. You're assuming that I suddenly totally like the beasts that I previously didn't, no, that hasn't changed, as I said, I'm enjoying the show and characters for what it is, keeping out any thoughts of past/present franchises WHILE WATCHING IT, and I have no to very little to no interest in the toys. Surely you can understand that.

It is possible to enjoy something without embracing its merchandising. More people need a reminder of that and to hold themselves back from being consumer whores. It seems to be too much of a given these days, just look at all the big movies that have been out lately, video games and merchandise up the wing-wang everywhere. There's no obligation to buy any of it, I came to that realisation with Animated. Sure I loved the cartoon, but one day, after getting caught in the hype of the toys, something clicked, I had a realisation that just because I loved the show doesn't mean I have to get the toys. It was quite amazing actually, it feels like you wake up from a deep sleep and you remember who you are and where you are. Anyway, public service announcement over.

[Verno]

Anyway, yea, they were fine for their day if you were a collector then. I'm collecting now and they are absolutly horrible by the standards I expect today. I hope you understand that and can shift your train of thought.

Try and get your hands on a TM Depth Charge and Rampage. I defy you to say that they do not meet your standards. They are superb toys!

[GoktimusPrime]

Point taken. But if it was organic, then there would have to be some sort of blood supply going to it to keep it alive. That's how skin works.

So who says that they're truly organic and not just some synthetic imitation? They may to be beasts but are really more than meets the eye. I don't remember the show ever saying that their beast modes were meant to be literally organic.

Comics? Good one. (I had comics as a kid, but hardly remember them now, and yea, I generally don't read comics).

We're talking beast wars here.

...that wasn't my point. I was saying that a Transformer's alt mode has multiple purposes beyond just being a disguise. (-_-)

The 90's is 1996. Let me know if there is a Goktimus guide to time travel.

That wasn't my point and you know it.

As for the G1 comparison, that's a clouded judgement by the fact that beast wars is still beasts, I don't want meat beast toys. You're assuming that I suddenly totally like the beasts that I previously didn't, no, that hasn't changed, as I said, I'm enjoying the show and characters for what it is, keeping out any thoughts of past/present franchises WHILE WATCHING IT, and I have no to very little to no interest in the toys. Surely you can understand that.

You never said anything like that before. You said, "Yea, all fine and good for the 90's, but I've come to expect more now." and you've also said "Anyway, yea, they were fine for their day if you were a collector then. I'm collecting now and they are absolutly horrible by the standards I expect today."- essentially saying that you're not interested in Beast Wars toys because you don't think that they're good enough by contemporary standards.

So according to this logic you would not be able to collect G1 toys now since they're a LOT worse compared to Beast Wars Transformers. Unlike G1 Transformers BW Transformers are still:
+ Fully articulated in robot mode
+ Relatively quite durable and hardy
+ Have detailed sculpting and paint applications making the use of stickers just laughable

It is possible to enjoy something without embracing its merchandising. More people need a reminder of that and to hold themselves back from being consumer whores. It seems to be too much of a given these days, just look at all the big movies that have been out lately, video games and merchandise up the wing-wang everywhere. There's no obligation to buy any of it, I came to that realisation with Animated. Sure I loved the cartoon, but one day, after getting caught in the hype of the toys, something clicked, I had a realisation that just because I loved the show doesn't mean I have to get the toys. It was quite amazing actually, it feels like you wake up from a deep sleep and you remember who you are and where you are. Anyway, public service announcement over.

And that was never my point. See above.

I'm not trying to make you a fan of the toys or anything, but if you're going to say that you don't find Beast Wars Transformers appealing as a collector because they don't hold up to contemporary standards, then logically it should mean that G1 TF toys should be even more abhorrent to you considering that by overall comparison G1 TFs are:
+ Relatively unarticulated in robot mode
+ Much more susceptible to breakage
+ Have relatively less detailed sculpting and paint applications relying on stickers to decorate the toys which looks cheap by contemporary standards.

As for the whole beast TFs vs vehicle TFs... well, wait until you get to Beast Machines where vehicular Transformers actively persecute beast TFs and are waging a war to ethnically cleanse Cybertron of the "racial impurity" of beast TFs <--SPOILERS

[King Atlas]

Anyway, yea, they were fine for their day if you were a collector then. I'm collecting now and they are absolutly horrible by the standards I expect today. I hope you understand that and can shift your train of thought.

I highly disagree. I think they stand the test of time quite well. As for the show itself, I think you are taking it far too seriously. G1 had so many random wtf moments, I can't believe you wouldn't be in some kind of critising frenzy after a couple of episodes

[GoktimusPrime]

Not the comics but the G1 cartoon had a CRAPLOAD more wtf moments compared to Beast Wars!! Beast Wars gives us actual characters with complex facets whereas G1 cartoon TFs were really just one-dimensional caricatures. Compare the characterisation of G1 toon Optimus Prime vs Optimus Primal... Optimus Primal is a far more complex character.

...then there's this thing called continuity. Sure, there are a few moments where BW continuity doesn't quite match up with G1 and G2 continuity... but the G1 cartoon continuity doesn't even match up with itself!! e.g.: Megatron's origins, Constructicons' origins etc. Phwoar!

The G1 and G2 comics were still better than Beast Wars though, but Beast Wars is the best story ever written for a Transformers television series IMHO.

[Gutsman Heavy]

they're nowhere near as bad as say... Injector. *shudder*

THATS IT! outside, NOW!

fisticuffs!

[dirge]

Point taken. But if it was organic, then there would have to be some sort of blood supply going to it to keep it alive. That's how skin works.

Alien technologies, man. Remember, millions around the world accept that God/Allah/Buddha/Yoda/roller's mum can do unfathomable miracles and stuff. Just accept the alien tech...

Light hearted? No, but plenty of exaggerated and super deformed moments are still there. Even moreso.

The tone of the second season is more serious, even if the comedic moments are more distinct.

Anyway, yea, they were fine for their day if you were a collector then. I'm collecting now and they are absolutly horrible by the standards I expect today.

Rubbish - the standards today are far below those of Beast Wars. The original Cheetor toy is all over pretty much any FAB. Rampage leaves Cybertron Snarl for dead.

The best of BW easily stacks up against today's toys. And the standards then were a lot higher. No ridiculously simple junk like FABs or CyberSlammers (no offence to fans of these toys, but the technology in these is non-existent). BW produced ultras like Depth Charge & Tigerhawk, which were just plain good Transformers. Cybertron gave us Jetfire, whose transformation is what you'd expect of a BW deluxe. And he's less poseable than your typical BW deluxe.

The cream of modern toys are above what BW achieved, I'll concede that. But for every 2008 movie Bumblebee, there's a soundbox-centred Energon Ironhide. For every Movie Leader Prime, there's a Cybertron Supreme Starscream (who was able to be redesigned as a _Legend_ with the same transformation).

I don't want meat beast toys. You're assuming that I suddenly totally like the beasts that I previously didn't, no, that hasn't changed, as I said, I'm enjoying the show and characters for what it is, keeping out any thoughts of past/present franchises WHILE WATCHING IT, and I have no to very little to no interest in the toys. Surely you can understand that.

Having no interest in the toys doesn't mean you have to deride them. I can't stand the Animated concept, but I'll still concede that Animated Soundwave & Leader Megs are well designed toys with a lot of focus. The way you're talking about Beast Wars toys, one could be mistaken for thinking they're on the level of rock lords.

By all means, hate the idea. Your preferences are yours and you're entitled to them. If you hate the concept of organic beast mode Transformers, you don't need to justify that. But the more you claim that Beast Wars toys are awful, the less others will think of your opinions.

[Soundwarp]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Anywho how is it going?