Martial arts discussion thread

[Tabias Prime]

Can would bring my Zangetsu but i think i could get in the shit with the cops..I did do a bit of Kung-fu when i was younger..

[SGB]

Let's start an OTCA fight meet in which we all get together somewhere and have one on one fights to proof which one of us has the more effective fighting style. Afterwards we can get together in the Emergency Room and chat about Transformers!

LOL!!!

[GoktimusPrime]

Can would bring my Zangetsu but i think i could get in the shit with the cops..

That's why I like the idea "defend yourself from thugs without becoming a thug." Legally we are permitted to use reasonable force in self-defence. It's when you use unreasonably excessive force that you may find yourself in trouble with the law.

It's also because of this that I have a personal preference for the internal martial arts, due to their more passively defensive nature.

Here's an example with a person demonstrating traditional Aikido:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aicHsMC6rxM
You'll notice that at no point does the defender actually strike his attackers. There are no punches, kicks, elbows, knees, headbutts, biting etc.; nothing offensive, all defensive. What may appear as strikes to some people are actually pre-emptive blocks. He's not hitting his attackers, but at times he will stick his hand out to obstruct them or to enforce them to fall down - and the only reason why the attackers fall down so hard is because the defender is using his attacker's force against them. The defender is using very little of his own power. The entire essence is about subduing and restraining your attacker, not hitting them.

Tai Chi is another example of a passively defensive martial art. Their push hands exercise is which allows them to practice the principles of redirecting an attacker's force against them.

There are plenty of other passively defensive internal styles and I'd be here forever if I wanted to discuss them all, but I hope that these brief examples give an idea of how the basic concept of passively defensive fighting works.

----------------
Disclaimer: Classification in martial arts, just like classification in many other areas, is highly arbitrary and subjective. In reality all martial arts contain both internal and external elements. It is possible for external martial artists to be passively defensive too (just as it's possible for an internal martial artist to be aggressively offensive). It's really up to how the individual chooses to apply his/her training and techniques.

[kup]

The real way to learn to fight is if you fight somebody who you know is willing to do you harm. Sparing in 'Controlled' environments are too artificial and choreographed to be proper training.

In a real life fight you will not know if your attacker is going to kick, punch, bite or throw himself at you. Although fighting technique does help immensely, you need to know how to implement it almost by instinct rather than choreography (as most dojos teach it) and be able to change and adapt your move based on the split second circumstance.

You can only learn that through real full contact fighting rather than the typical dojo 'I stand 1m apart and pretend to hit you with this move and you pretend defending a second after I do it' controlled environment.

I remember when I was a kid, I decided to do Karate for a few weeks - Boy that was a waste of time and money! All the moves were super artificially choreographed into awkward 'if I move I will trip over my leg' stances with lots of repetitive moves and stances that even as a 12 year old I could see how I could counter them through unorthodox thinking.

When it came to sparing, it was basically how I described it above 'I hit the air in front of you and then you hit the air in front of me' turn based training. I found it utterly ridiculous as there was no hope in hell that the school's method of teaching was going to work in a real life fight since there is no training on proper adaptive fighting and since the same style of training continued to higher belts, it became utterly pointless.

When it dawned on me how ridiculous the whole thing was during a sparing session, I decided to playfully kick 'my opponent' in the ass while he was waiting for a pretend punch. I found it hilarious but the other kid got really upset and almost cried although the kick wasn't hard enough to hurt him. He kept shouting 'Watch the contact! Watch the contact!' and then I knew I should probably quit since this show wasn't as advertised.

[Rampage]

Let's start an OTCA fight meet in which we all get together somewhere and have one on one fights to proof which one of us has the more effective fighting style. Afterwards we can get together in the Emergency Room and chat about Transformers!

I choose to fight kuzzy in the first round he's as tall as me sounds fair?....

[GoktimusPrime]

Here's a pet peeve of mine: I hate it when martial arts schools which teach styles that are _clearly_ not intended for fighting and don't point this out to their students, or worse, actually claim that they're teaching self defence.

I recently spoke to two guys who'd practised Modern Wushu, which is an exhibition sport derived from traditional Wushu (Kung Fu) - but as such, is no longer a fighting form. It's commonly used in Kung Fu movies and looks all pretty and spectacular... quite entertaining, but it's not fighting. Yet neither of these kids were told that what they'd learnt isn't applicable for self defence, thus giving them false confidence. This can be dangerous cos they could be walking around thinking that their acrobatic and gymnastic stylised moves could save them against someone wanting to beat the snot out of them, and if that ever happened they'd be in for a rude shock.

One of my university lecturers used to practice Modern Wushu in China and he said that it was great for fitness and he loves the sport, but he also said that if anyone could actually apply it in a fight he'd eat his hat.

[sifun]

what do you use to bridge the gap when you need to attack?

[Bartrim]

I choose to fight kuzzy in the first round he's as tall as me sounds fair?....

$50on Kuzzy

[GoktimusPrime]

What do you guys think when you hear that someone has a black belt? My first thought is, "So?"

As I said in post #54, the coloured belt grading system:
+ Is not used in all martial arts
+ Is not even a traditional element of Japanese or Korean martial arts and was something created when Judo became a sport.

Furthermore, black belt means that you are a beginner. Yup. The other colours are all preliminary levels leading up to the beginner level. After you get your black belt you are promoted to a dan or kyu. The words dan (段) and kyu (級) mean "level" or "grade." So a 1st Dan Black Belt is someone who is Level 1, 2nd Dan is Level 2 and so on. A pre-dan black belt is like level 0, and the belt before black (typically brown belt in Japan) is like Level -1.

In my experience I've seen a wide range of abilities from black belts. Some are really good and others are so bad that you question whether or not they deserve to wear a black belt. So really... holding a black belt alone, in my observation, doesn't automatically make you a good fighter. I've come across people who can fight really well despite having NO training in martial arts or boxing, as well as people who hold black belts (or have had an equivalent level of training) and are appallingly awful fighters.

This goes back to what I was saying before in post #54 -- belt colours, grades and ranks meaning nothing to me. The basic question remains: "Can you fight?" How you answer this question means a lot more to me than the colour of a piece of cloth wrapped around your waist.

Thank you.

[MV75]

+ There's no such thing as rules or honour in a real fight.

That's largely why I commented upon "controlled environments".

As for me, Taekwondo is what I did. It's pretty aggressive and is designed to literally cripple the opponent.

But when I did it, it was mostly a "for fun" type of thing which is pretty much what most martial arts classes these days are for.

Lots of "real world" fights are close up and make sure you hit them harder types of affairs. Street fighting, as that's all drunken / robbers / bullies really know.

I'd also imagine ancient battles were more of a "cut their guts open first" type of affair in the field as well. If you lost your sword, then tackle them and pummel their faces, hit them with rocks and other brutal types of things. You wouldn't be waiting in a defense stance for them to throw a punch and you to counter it, then let them have their turn, etc like you would do in a public showing.