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  #1  
Old 7th May 2017, 01:38 AM
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griffin griffin is offline
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Default Premium Collectables (PC) not refunding? - help is here for doing charge-backs

According to the ACCC site on Australian Consumer Law, if a (registered) business fails to meet their promised obligations - such as providing a service or product within a timely period of when it is quoted at the time of purchase/pre-order - a customer is entitled to a reasonable resolution, such as agreeing to wait, or receiving a refund.

Quote:
When a business accepts your payment for products or services they must supply them to you within the timeframe they have indicated or if no time was specified, within a reasonable time.
If you do not receive the products or services you have paid for, your first step should be to contact the business to try and resolve the problem.
If you are still having difficulty resolving the problem, contact your local state and territory consumer protection agency. They may be able to assist you in your dispute with the business.
(this is not legal advice - just interpretation of the Australian Consumer Law)
The contract terms are set when payment is received by the business, and terms (like price or delivery) usually can only be modified by the business with the implied consent of the consumer. If the expected service or product will not be met by the date/time detailed at the time of purchase/pre-order, a responsible, ethical business can be pro-active and ask if the affected customer is wanting to wait, or wanting a refund. That business should not significantly change the terms of the sale contract, even if it is circumstances beyond their control, and then refuse respond to the customer who has issue with the changes, or has requested a refund after a lengthy delay from the original date that the business themselves quoted at the time of purchase/pre-order.

Products that are delayed by 6-12 months is NOT a timely period, and a business should not quote "expected" release dates that they were not going to meet, and instead claim that it is just their business model to provide cheaper prices.

Quote:
Under the Australian Consumer Law, businesses must not accept payment for products or services if:
  • they know, or should have known, they would not be able to supply the products or services within the timeframe indicated
Customers of Premium Collectables should NOT be expected to accept delays of 6+ months for products that cost them hundreds or even thousands of dollars, and then be ignored when they eventually request a refund... which should have been voluntarily offered to them when it was first known by Premium Collectables that the product was not going to be supplied in a "reasonable time".

How many months of delay warrants a voluntary refund from Premium Collectables? There have been outstanding orders of over a year from their original release date, that Premium Collectables refused to voluntarily refund, and many orders have been abandoned by customers who have written off the money, due to it being so old that the banks won't refund it either. It ends up being free money that Premium Collectables have kept, without ever providing the products, or being worried about a financial institution chasing them up for money.
I personally know of quite a few fans who have had their hobby significantly spoiled by Premium Collectables, to the point of either giving up collecting, or leaving them with toys missing that they really wanted, but now can't obtain without spending significantly more than they are willing to pay (which leaves them with a bad taste when ever they think about that figure, or even toys/toylines related to the ones they are now missing).

Customers should also NOT be told to chase up their own refunds from their own financial institutions or payment mediums, just because Premium Collectables is not willing (or able) to work out if a customer has already chased up charge-back from their bank.


If Premium Collectables is refusing to refund your money, or telling you to do their work for them by chasing up your bank/payment handler, instead of working out what you are entitled to under Australian Consumer Law, this is a help topic for you.

It will also allow for people to ask questions to get specific help for their outstanding transactions, if the information isn't already listed here in this first posting.

It is NOT a topic for attacking other members, non-members, or PC itself.
This is a help topic for getting your money back from Premium Collectables.


IF YOU ARE STILL WAITING FOR DELAYED PRODUCTS, OR HAVE ALREADY HAD TO DO A CHARGEBACK....

Step 1.
(if you have already received ALL of your money from a Chargeback, skip to step 3)
- email Premium Collectables (cservice@premiumcollect.com.au) with a request for a refund (if you are still waiting on a significantly delayed product of at least 3 months after the date quoted when pre-ordered, and you have NOT already received that money from a chargeback).
This is required by the ACCC and most State Agencies, before you can proceed to the next step IF YOU ARE STILL A CUSTOMER. If they don't reply, proceed to step 2. If they do reply but refuse to provide a refund, proceed to step 2.
If you don't send to PC a request for a refund first, your State Agency may not investigate your complaint.

Step 2.
(if you haven't received a reply for your request for a refund after a week, or they have refused to refund, or told you to do a chargeback... or you have already proceeded with a chargeback and received your money)
- report your problem to the ACC here, either as a non-delivery of product or refund, or their Unconscionable Conduct causing excessive delays without offering refund.
Use ABN 49768067053 on the complaint form.
NOTE - you might not get a response, as they can't resolve your problem, or give legal advice, but they can log the issue (if they get enough complaints, they might act on it), and might give you details of what to do next (which might be what is listed below in the next steps).

Step 3.
(only if the ACCC didn't reply to your complaint with specific instructions, or you already have money from a chargeback)
- contact your state/territory Consumer Protection agency for legal advice and options, if Premium Collectables ignored or rejected your claim for a refund on an item that is significantly delayed from the originally quoted release date at time of purchase.... or.... if you have already received money back from a chargeback due to their refusal to issue a refund, as this business will continue to spoil the hobby of collectors if it isn't stopped, so we will need people to send in details of your experience, even if it was already resolved with a chargeback.
Make sure you ask the agency, if this constitutes fraud, or breaches Australian Consumer Law, so that it can be shut down or de-registered to protect others from having to go through the same year-plus long nightmare.

Step 4.
- if you still can't get your money back on a significantly delayed item, or Premium Collectables have told you to do a chargeback because they are too lazy to work out if you are still entitled to a refund, contact your state/territory Small Claims Tribunal for help on getting your money back.
(they might tell you to make a claim through the state PC is registered in - Victoria)


The News and updates topic no longer exists - as of July 2017, that topic has been removed, because this site will no longer give fans the impression that we endorse or promote an online store that fails to meet their legal obligations. Nor will we give them free publicity from their updates.
Too many fans have been (fraudulently) burnt by this business over a lengthy period of time, (they fail to supply products in a timely manner or offer refunds voluntarily, sabotaging rival dealer feedback topics on this site with negative votes without ever being their customer, and refusing to reply to customers queries or requests for refunds) - this site does not want to be linked or tarnished by those actions, or be accused of facilitating or allowing those (illegal or immoral) issues to occur.

Feedback and questions can be found here - comments in there must be limited to your own experiences as a customer.

And remember - don't spoil your hobby by keeping yourself in a sphere of negativity... if you are waiting an excessive amount of time for a pre-order item that was expected or promised months ago, ask to cancel the order and claim a refund... so that you can move on with your life and not waste it ranting about it here.
If PC will only offer you store credit and you don't want to go through another lengthy waiting period for the next item you pre-order, you have the right to request a refund instead of store credit. If they refuse a refund and you paid by Credit Card, then do a chargeback (officially called a "Dispute of Transaction" by banks).
Just be aware of the cut-off period for chargebacks, so check with your bank or your Product Disclosure Statement, what the time limit and conditions are. And find out if your Credit Card chargeback time limit is from the time you paid, or from the time your item was supposed to be released (most have this). If the bank claims it is from the time you paid for the item, get them to prove it in the terms & conditions (PDS) of your particular Credit Card.

If your Credit Card or Bank starts that time limit countdown from the "release date", look for the most recent update from PC for your product(s), as most products will keep being updated monthly to the current month, and if it says the current month or a recent date/month that is within the time-limit, submit a printout or screenshot of that (email/website) update (or of a recent month to show that it is now delayed).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHyren View Post
I'll post all three major cards delayed delivery terms here if anyone wants to link to them in future.

Mastercard: https://www.mastercard.com/ca/wce/PD...ack_manual.pdf
The reason code is 4855 for Goods or Services Not Provided, see "1.7.3 Time Frame for First Chargeback"
Quote:
When delayed delivery of goods or performance of services by a card acceptor results in a subsequent dispute about the condition of the goods or the quality of the services, MasterCard will calculate the period of 120 days using the delivery or performance date.
In cases that involve the delayed delivery of goods or performance of services that the cardholder asserts the card acceptor never provided, MasterCard will calculate the period of 120 days from the latest anticipated date that the card acceptor was to provide the goods or services.
In cases that involve interrupted services where the services are immediately available, the period of 120 days will begin on the date that the services cease. In no case shall the first chargeback exceed 540 days (approximately 18 months) from the Central Site Business Date of the first presentment.

Visa: https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/downlo...les-public.pdf
The reason code is 30 for Services Not Provided or Merchandise Not Received, see "11.1.10.4 Chargeback Time Limit Reason Code 30"
Quote:
A Chargeback must be processed no later than either:
- 120 calendar days from the Transaction Processing Date
- If the merchandise or services were to be provided after the Transaction Processing Date, 120 calendar days from the last date that the Cardholder expected to receive the merchandise or services or the date that the Cardholder was first made aware that the merchandise or services would not be provided, not to exceed 540 calendar days from the Transaction Processing Date

American Express: https://www.americanexpress.com/cont...kcodeguide.pdf
The reason code is 4554 for Goods And Services Not Received, see "REASON CODE 4554 Goods And Services Not Received"
Quote:
Maximum time a dispute can be raised
One hundred and twenty (120) days from the date American Express Network processed the Transaction, or
One hundred and twenty (120) days from (whichever occurred first):
the date the Card Member expected to receive goods and/or services, or
the date the Card Member became aware that the expected goods and/or services would not be provided (not exceeding five hundred and forty (540) days from the date American Express Network processed the Transaction).

What I've noticed is that a lot of bank employees get as far as the first part of the time limit modifiers and ignore everything else because "words", which is why so many focus on the "it's more then 120 days after you paid, we cant help".
So just show them the rest which says "OR IF IT'S A DELAYED DELIVERY ITEM USE THIS BIT".

If you know that your item is within the disputable time frames and your bank wont help even after trying to escalate the matter with their complaints department contact the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) at https://www.fos.org.au/ as their job is to help bank customers who are having issues such as the bank not putting through chargeback disputes properly.
Just be aware that if you dont have an ETA that is within the last 120 days (NOTE: updated ETAs that differ from the original are valid so long as they are either on the merchants website, social media, or in a personal communication to you from the merchants email account) and/or your original payment date is older then 540 days no one from the bank, credit provider, or FOS is obligated to help you.


If you paid by a means that doesn't allow for chargebacks, or your product doesn't have a documented release date within your credit-card's time limit, proceed with step 4 above, and chase up your money through a Small Claims Tribunal.
.
.

Last edited by griffin; 10th January 2018 at 07:11 PM.
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  #2  
Old 7th May 2017, 08:28 AM
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DaptoDog DaptoDog is offline
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Filed a chargeback with my bank this morning regarding my oldest outstanding order. They couldn't provide anything definitive regarding a time limit but did note on the dispute that it was for a pre-order and I gave her the ETA of Feb/March. Will update once I find out the outcome.
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  #3  
Old 7th May 2017, 12:32 PM
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Nevac Nevac is offline
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When you do a chargeback you may want to cancel your credit card otherwise they can just charge your card again. I've done 2 this year from the same vendor and the first one was done and sorted within a fortnight. But since I didn't cancel the card I got charged again and had to repeat the process which took at least a month to get my money back.
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Old 7th May 2017, 12:44 PM
drifand drifand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevac View Post
When you do a chargeback you may want to cancel your credit card otherwise they can just charge your card again. I've done 2 this year from the same vendor and the first one was done and sorted within a fortnight. But since I didn't cancel the card I got charged again and had to repeat the process which took at least a month to get my money back.
Correct but may I ask once you cancel your card can you file a chargeback for other items?

It's a long list and some of us may only want to cancel what is fair not the entire account.
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  #5  
Old 7th May 2017, 03:24 PM
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Darkness Darkness is offline
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In reponse to comments directed at me on pc feedback thread.

My attitude was determined by you (no one particular) when i left comments about pc you didn't want to hear in a manner that was too much for your sensibilities to handle at the time. You applied the meaning of loyalty, and my comments and others who said similar yet more tactfully than i did were met with loyalist aggression. Compare my comments from back then with the comments others including the long time respected board members are making now about pc, and you'll see that whatever bar i may have set has been raised. Had i joined today and said the same things about pc now i did back then, would i be met with the same aggression? I doubt it. I'd be seen as another poor sod in the same boat as all of you.

I'll freely admit I've exhibited poor form in some instances. I could blame it on being retaliatory, but no matter the reasons, i still could've taken the higher road and not made the comments i did, so i accept my actions as being my own. To the best of my memory I've never name called or abused other members.
I can admit my mistakes, can you?

My reply to goktimus was not an attack. It was a wtaf moment.

The comment about my wishing ill on other collectors who are pc customers doesn't deserve any response or explanation other than this... don't let your sentiment towards me be the cause for your mouth to open allowing stupid to fall out.

Anyway, this isn't a who started it or who's to blame. Two wrongs don't make a right. Don't sit on your high horses and hide behind my lack of popularity to make comments in an attempt to receive pats on the back feeding your holier than thou ego when you and others are guilty of the same. I'm on my own here on otca and have displayed more balls than that cowardly pack animal crap you guys are.
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  #6  
Old 7th May 2017, 03:28 PM
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Darkness Darkness is offline
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Please excuse me Griffin. I'll say no more about it and let it rest no matter the responses if any i get. It's distracting from the real issue.
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  #7  
Old 7th May 2017, 04:25 PM
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Nevac Nevac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drifand View Post
Correct but may I ask once you cancel your card can you file a chargeback for other items?

It's a long list and some of us may only want to cancel what is fair not the entire account.
Charge backs are done on a case by case basis if you trust the vendor and want to keep going with them then you don't cancel the card and just flag each transaction to your bank. However I'd imagine the vendor would be wary dealing with you if you've hit them with a charge back once. Otherwise I was assuming people wanted to refund their stuff and wash their hands of said vendor.

Keep in mind doing a charge back is last resort/nuclear option you do these if you and the vendor cannot reach an agreement on a refund. When I did it the vendor pretty much ignored me and I wanted nothing further to do with them at all.
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Old 7th May 2017, 04:36 PM
drifand drifand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevac View Post
Charge backs are done on a case by case basis if you trust the vendor and want to keep going with them then you don't cancel the card and just flag each transaction to your bank. However I'd imagine the vendor would be wary dealing with you if you've hit them with a charge back once. Otherwise I was assuming people wanted to refund their stuff and wash their hands of said vendor.

Keep in mind doing a charge back is last resort/nuclear option you do these if you and the vendor cannot reach an agreement on a refund. When I did it the vendor pretty much ignored me and I wanted nothing further to do with them at all.
Noted, I have to deal with my isp first.
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  #9  
Old 7th May 2017, 05:01 PM
Ploughmans Lunch Ploughmans Lunch is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaptoDog View Post
Filed a chargeback with my bank this morning regarding my oldest outstanding order. They couldn't provide anything definitive regarding a time limit but did note on the dispute that it was for a pre-order and I gave her the ETA of Feb/March. Will update once I find out the outcome.
Will be keeping an eye out on this. Best of luck!
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  #10  
Old 7th May 2017, 05:06 PM
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hYpNoS hYpNoS is offline
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This situation is getting out of hand, its driving us insane.

I...can't even do a charge back because I don't have a credit card (its one of them fancy master car saving cards) nor do I know how that is done (paypal has usually been my go-to for this sorta thing, bless paypal and their response times and effectiveness), but for those who tried is it possible to straight up ask for a refund rather than store credit, how would I word it?

Not now, come July 1st (because the whole government gst rubbish) I'll get right on it but for later reference, how can I request an outright refund from pc?

Because the moment my final pre-order with them stalls is when I'll enrage them head on, right now they have a small chance of redemption and when I get all my stuff FROM THEM I might even buy again from them
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