Organics of Transmetals & Transmetal 2s?

So, I was just thinking...
In BW, Transmetals have mechanical alt-modes and organic elements in robot modes. Transmetal 2s have both mechanical and organic component melded in a more 'integrated' style.
TM Optimus Primal (in robot mode) shares/melds his Spark with Optimus Prime (entirely mechanical/no organic components) and - so far as I can see - becomes an entirely mechanical form. We see inside him in robot mode (the formerly partially-organic part) and everything's 100% machine.
So, it's not unreasonable to assume that the upgrade that comes from mingling sparks between a Transmetal and a 'guzzler' (or even just an exceptionally powerful-sparked guzzler such as Prime and original Megatron) creates a more powerful but also entirely mechanical form.

But then BW Megs mingles sparks with old-school Megs - who is 100% robot, and not that keen on organics unlike Prime. BW Megs is in robot mode as Primal was when he mingled sparks with Prime, i.e. he has a certain amount of organic components. He gets a size-and-power upgrade, much like Optimal Optimus. Yet apparently BW Megs' dragon form, created in the same manner with the same concoction of organic and inorganic parts as Optimal Optimus, is part organic (as becomes a major plot point in that terrible dream that never happened Beast Machines).

Surely, all things being equal, BW Megs should also be an entirely robotic dragon, and/or Optimal Optimus should retain some organic components, especially in robot mode. If anything, you'd think Megs would be less likely to be at all organic, given big (i.e. original) Megs' aversion to organic life. Heck, he survives a trip on the hull of a ship through both Transwarp and normal space - seems kinda full-on for organic parts to handle. Then again, Waspinator manages it, but then again that's also Waspinator.

So, what do people think? Is Optimal Optimus part-organic after all? Is BW Megs all-mechanical, and the writers of BM just didn't think about it/ignored it so they could make Megs go all emo/space-crazy? Is it just some 'mysterious Cybertronian technology' thing? Did a wizard do it? Am I being stupid for even thinking about a TF cartoon with any eye towards logic and/or consistency, even one as well-written as Beast Wars?

The writers just did the best they could with the toys Hasbro gave them... Ideally it would have been good to be consistent with that plot element, as well as the whole Transmetal concept itself, but I applaud Ditillio and Forward for what they did end up giving us.

Besides, these plot inconsistencies give us fans something to talk about, to make it more interesting dissecting the stories.

My line of thinking is that Megs was only disliking of Organics with Beast Machines, as he seemed to actively enjoy both of his T-Rex & Dragon forms; Only with the advent of Beast Machines throwing out 3 Seasons worth of narrative did he begin to "Hate" organics - At least that's what I thought. :o

It's an interesting question as to why he ended up more of an Organic Dragon (Not that I'm complaining, the toy is beautiful). :cool:
Perhaps it could be based more so on what is at the "Laser-core" of a particular Spark and hence manifesting itself accordingly?

Original Megatron was a maniacal dictator, bent on the conquest of the Universe whereas Prime was a leader who's own spark had been heavily influenced/mutated by those that had previously held the Matrix. :)
Maybe because of these influences "Evil" manifests itself as a Beast & "Good" the form of a/the divine being, as this particular being is Primus and all Cybertronians are supposedly made in his image (Transforming Anthropomorphic Vehicles, initially), the end result is far more Vehicular/Mechanical in nature? ;)

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Originally Posted by Bidoofdude

Also, I have 2 more.
Are Hasbro G1 Optimus' smokestacks molded blue then painted silver?

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My G1 Prime has them in the same shade as his legs, with (increasing less as time goes on) silver paint.

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Originally Posted by griffin

The writers just did the best they could with the toys Hasbro gave them... Ideally it would have been good to be consistent with that plot element, as well as the whole Transmetal concept itself, but I applaud Ditillio and Forward for what they did end up giving us.

Besides, these plot inconsistencies give us fans something to talk about, to make it more interesting dissecting the stories.

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Oh yeah, no disrespect to Ditillio and Forward intended, it just suddenly struck me as interesting/odd is all and I wanted to see what people thought. Looking at TM2 Megs he doesn't seem to have any necessarily organic parts (in the same way as Optimal Optimus' gorilla chest is organically styled but doesn't seem organic per se), but then it becomes this big thing in BM.

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Originally Posted by Hursticon

My line of thinking is that Megs was only disliking of Organics with Beast Machines, as he seemed to actively enjoy both of his T-Rex & Dragon forms; Only with the advent of Beast Machines throwing out 3 Seasons worth of narrative did he begin to "Hate" organics - At least that's what I thought. :o

It's an interesting question as to why he ended up more of an Organic Dragon (Not that I'm complaining, the toy is beautiful). :cool:
Perhaps it could be based more so on what is at the "Laser-core" of a particular Spark and hence manifesting itself accordingly?

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That's sort of what I was thinking, except that G1/old-school Megs did show an aversion towards organics and BW Megs (as opposed to BM Megs, who I maintain got driven a little space-crazy by being strapped to the outside of ship during a presumably long transwarp trip) seemed not to care either way (or to put it differently was typically pragmatic about the whole thing - power is power no matter whether it's organic or mechanical), whereas both Prime and Primal show a fondness/appreciation for organics. Based on the sparks involved, you'd think if anyone was going to lose their organic side it'd be Megatron^2, not Optimus^2.

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Originally Posted by Hursticon

Original Megatron was a maniacal dictator, bent on the conquest of the Universe whereas Prime was a leader who's own spark had been heavily influenced/mutated by those that had previously held the Matrix. :)
Maybe because of these influences "Evil" manifests itself as a Beast & "Good" the form of a/the divine being, as this particular being is Primus and all Cybertronians are supposedly made in his image (Transforming Anthropomorphic Vehicles, initially), the end result is far more Vehicular/Mechanical in nature? ;)

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I'll sorta pay that what with the pseudo-Biblical Covenant of Primus stuff, and I can think of a few various fanwank scenarios that'd sorta work myself. I'd still like to hear Verno's take on all this though.

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Originally Posted by Ode to a Grasshopper

So, I was just thinking...
In BW, Transmetals have mechanical alt-modes and organic elements in robot modes. Transmetal 2s have both mechanical and organic component melded in a more 'integrated' style.
TM Optimus Primal (in robot mode) shares/melds his Spark with Optimus Prime (entirely mechanical/no organic components) and - so far as I can see - becomes an entirely mechanical form. We see inside him in robot mode (the formerly partially-organic part) and everything's 100% machine.
So, it's not unreasonable to assume that the upgrade that comes from mingling sparks between a Transmetal and a 'guzzler' (or even just an exceptionally powerful-sparked guzzler such as Prime and original Megatron) creates a more powerful but also entirely mechanical form.

But then BW Megs mingles sparks with old-school Megs - who is 100% robot, and not that keen on organics unlike Prime. BW Megs is in robot mode as Primal was when he mingled sparks with Prime, i.e. he has a certain amount of organic components. He gets a size-and-power upgrade, much like Optimal Optimus. Yet apparently BW Megs' dragon form, created in the same manner with the same concoction of organic and inorganic parts as Optimal Optimus, is part organic (as becomes a major plot point in that terrible dream that never happened Beast Machines).

Surely, all things being equal, BW Megs should also be an entirely robotic dragon, and/or Optimal Optimus should retain some organic components, especially in robot mode. If anything, you'd think Megs would be less likely to be at all organic, given big (i.e. original) Megs' aversion to organic life. Heck, he survives a trip on the hull of a ship through both Transwarp and normal space - seems kinda full-on for organic parts to handle. Then again, Waspinator manages it, but then again that's also Waspinator.

So, what do people think? Is Optimal Optimus part-organic after all? Is BW Megs all-mechanical, and the writers of BM just didn't think about it/ignored it so they could make Megs go all emo/space-crazy? Is it just some 'mysterious Cybertronian technology' thing? Did a wizard do it? Am I being stupid for even thinking about a TF cartoon with any eye towards logic and/or consistency, even one as well-written as Beast Wars?

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Possible difference: Optimus Prime's Spark was housed in (or in contact with) the Matrix, whereas Megatron's was not. Perhaps it was contact with a Spark that had been imbued with Matrix energies that made Optimus Primal mutate differently from Megatron.

That... and because Hasbro made these toys and told Mainframe to chuck 'em into the show. ;) I remember when I first bought Optimal Optimus... I thought it was a great toy, but I'd never see it in the show because:
a) Optimus Primal had already become a Transmetal, and a second Quantum Surge would be silly -- especially if it only re-Transmetallised one Transformer.
b) Optimal Optimus is a stupid name and would just sound silly on the show anyway.
But full credit to the writers for actually making it work! Involving the G1 Transformers and Optimus Prime was an awesome idea, and they just kept calling him "Optimus Primal," although Megatron initially referred to him as an "Optimal Optimus" to reference the name of the toy just that once. ;)

It was a shame that Peter Cullen refused to do a cameo voice role in that episode as the writers had initially hoped for. The scene where Primal returns Prime's Spark and we see Optimus Prime awaken for a few seconds -- apparently they wanted Peter Cullen to make him say a line (like "Till All Are One" or something, I dunno) before dozing off again... but Cullen refused. Not because he disliked the idea or the show, but because of industrial relations/union issues.

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Originally Posted by Bidoofdude

Also, I have 2 more.
Are Hasbro G1 Optimus' smokestacks molded blue then painted silver?

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Not painted, but [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_metallizing]vacuum metallised/url]. That's the problem with chrome -- looks great, but once it chips you can't fix it (unless you have the means to vacuum metallise plastic, which most folks don't). I've used mithral silver model paint to touch up chipped chrome, but it doesn't look the same (but it's the closest you can find out of model paints). I've heard of some people who have used chrome spray paint (i.e. the kind of paints used for touching up cars) - so I guess that must look close to actual chrome, but I've never tried it myself.

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Originally Posted by Bidoofdude

And the second, do tak/tom, hasbro or toyco still have the mold for Shockwave. Coz it's getting really hard to find one iin good condition.

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I'd say odds are they don't.

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Originally Posted by Ode to a Grasshopper

So, I was just thinking...
In BW, Transmetals have mechanical alt-modes and organic elements in robot modes. Transmetal 2s have both mechanical and organic component melded in a more 'integrated' style.
TM Optimus Primal (in robot mode) shares/melds his Spark with Optimus Prime (entirely mechanical/no organic components) and - so far as I can see - becomes an entirely mechanical form. We see inside him in robot mode (the formerly partially-organic part) and everything's 100% machine.
So, it's not unreasonable to assume that the upgrade that comes from mingling sparks between a Transmetal and a 'guzzler' (or even just an exceptionally powerful-sparked guzzler such as Prime and original Megatron) creates a more powerful but also entirely mechanical form.

But then BW Megs mingles sparks with old-school Megs - who is 100% robot, and not that keen on organics unlike Prime. BW Megs is in robot mode as Primal was when he mingled sparks with Prime, i.e. he has a certain amount of organic components. He gets a size-and-power upgrade, much like Optimal Optimus. Yet apparently BW Megs' dragon form, created in the same manner with the same concoction of organic and inorganic parts as Optimal Optimus, is part organic (as becomes a major plot point in that terrible dream that never happened Beast Machines).

Surely, all things being equal, BW Megs should also be an entirely robotic dragon, and/or Optimal Optimus should retain some organic components, especially in robot mode. If anything, you'd think Megs would be less likely to be at all organic, given big (i.e. original) Megs' aversion to organic life. Heck, he survives a trip on the hull of a ship through both Transwarp and normal space - seems kinda full-on for organic parts to handle. Then again, Waspinator manages it, but then again that's also Waspinator.

So, what do people think? Is Optimal Optimus part-organic after all? Is BW Megs all-mechanical, and the writers of BM just didn't think about it/ignored it so they could make Megs go all emo/space-crazy? Is it just some 'mysterious Cybertronian technology' thing? Did a wizard do it? Am I being stupid for even thinking about a TF cartoon with any eye towards logic and/or consistency, even one as well-written as Beast Wars?

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There's one very important aspect that you almost touched on, but didn't quite get to:

BW Megatron becomes a TM2, instead of remaining a TM.

Every other TM2 (Cheetor, Dinobot and Blackarachnia) all have some contact with the Transmetal Driver in attaining a new form.

But Megs doesn't.

You could speculate that perhaps BW Megatron did some initial testing of the Driver on himself, before attempting to create Dinobot II, and thus had residual energy within him when he took on G1 Megatron's Spark.

And as for melding Sparks - I see it more as BW Optimus and BW Megs simply taking a 2nd Spark into their body, rather than the Sparks merging. In Optimal Situation, we see G1 Prime's Spark sitting in the cockpit section of Primal's form, where we later see Primal's Spark housed within his body. I'm of the opinion that Sparks would remain separate of each other.

Are Transmetals actually Organic? There's no doubt the robot modes of TM forms have organic motifs, with Cheetor and Primal appearing slightly furry. Rattrap however has no such detailing - all he has is the appearance of muscles or musculature - which is also seen on Optimal Optimus beast chest. So the argument could be made that yes Optimal Optimus is still retaining some organic nature.

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Originally Posted by Verno

And as for melding Sparks - I see it more as BW Optimus and BW Megs simply taking a 2nd Spark into their body, rather than the Sparks merging. In Optimal Situation, we see G1 Prime's Spark sitting in the cockpit section of Primal's form, where we later see Primal's Spark housed within his body. I'm of the opinion that Sparks would remain separate of each other.

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I would have thought so too, but Megs is pretty clear about 'mingling' Sparks and Primal takes OPs spark into his own Spark chamber...until his body finishes upgrading anyway.
It's quite possible (albeit just more fanwank/conjecture) that the sparks of OP and Megs (being both 'guzzler' sparks and exceptionally powerful ones at that) mingle initially until their host bodies are capable of holding them and then return to being separate once it's 'safe' to do so.

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Originally Posted by Verno

Are Transmetals actually Organic? There's no doubt the robot modes of TM forms have organic motifs, with Cheetor and Primal appearing slightly furry. Rattrap however has no such detailing - all he has is the appearance of muscles or musculature - which is also seen on Optimal Optimus beast chest. So the argument could be made that yes Optimal Optimus is still retaining some organic nature.

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Again, my first thoughts are the same as yours, but the TMs do apparently have a little bit of organic matter in robot mode - even if it is mostly chest musculature.

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Originally Posted by Verno

There's one very important aspect that you almost touched on, but didn't quite get to:

BW Megatron becomes a TM2, instead of remaining a TM.

Every other TM2 (Cheetor, Dinobot and Blackarachnia) all have some contact with the Transmetal Driver in attaining a new form.

But Megs doesn't.

You could speculate that perhaps BW Megatron did some initial testing of the Driver on himself, before attempting to create Dinobot II, and thus had residual energy within him when he took on G1 Megatron's Spark.

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Nice...that provides a decent explanation. When the not-quite cloning device explodes in Feral Scream part 1 Megs is present but Optimus isn't. After the Transwarp wave energy having an effect on existing- and protoform-Transformers (at least Predacons and Maximals) that works re. 'infecting' Megs, albeit on a cloning-machine VS Planet-Buster scale.
I salute thee sirrah.:)

I'm still not sold on the 'mingling' or 'mixing' of Sparks - I'm certain they'd remain separate at all times.

'All is as it should be' scene from Nemesis Part 2

G1 Megs' Spark is being held (perhaps controlled), but clearly separate from BW Megatron's.

I say 'perhaps controlled' because G1 Megs seems to exhibit no influence on BW Megs, unlike Starscream who took over Waspinator head to toe.

Although, you could speculate that given the bodies of G1 Prime and Megs were in stasis, and their Lasercores perhaps offline, they couldn't influence their host's bodies.

So much speculation!

It's all about coming up with a series of rules that answer the unanswered questions for yourself I guess.

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Originally Posted by Verno

BW Megatron becomes a TM2, instead of remaining a TM.

Every other TM2 (Cheetor, Dinobot and Blackarachnia) all have some contact with the Transmetal Driver in attaining a new form.

But Megs doesn't.

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Neither did Tigerhawk. His TM2 body was created purely by the Vok without any apparent contact with a Transmetal Driver. It seems that the Deluxe and Mega TM2s were created by the driver, but the Ultras had different origins (again, really because Hasbro wanted them in the show -- remember that this part of Season 3 was written in a rush because Hasbro had ordered the cancellation of the series and the writers were trying to wrap up loose ends _while_ trying to introduce the last batch of toys at the same time).

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Originally Posted by Verno

And as for melding Sparks - I see it more as BW Optimus and BW Megs simply taking a 2nd Spark into their body, rather than the Sparks merging. In Optimal Situation, we see G1 Prime's Spark sitting in the cockpit section of Primal's form, where we later see Primal's Spark housed within his body. I'm of the opinion that Sparks would remain separate of each other.

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Yeah, I agree. Megatron does explicitly say "mingle,", which can be synonymous with merging, but another accepted meaning is "to take part with others" or "to come into close association/contact with." And it's that latter meaning that he really meant -- the G1 and BW Sparks came in close contact with each other, but didn't actually physically merge.

But I think the reason why Optimus Primal got a more "massive" upgrade was because he mingled his Spark not only with a G1 Titan like Optimus Prime, but because said Spark had been in direct contact with the Matrix -- and he also transferred Prime's Spark directly from the Matrix vessel. G1 Megatron's Spark, while also a mighty Titan, wasn't in contact with the Matrix. I think that could explain why he didn't upgrade into an "Optimal Megatron."

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Originally Posted by Verno

Are Transmetals actually Organic? There's no doubt the robot modes of TM forms have organic motifs, with Cheetor and Primal appearing slightly furry. Rattrap however has no such detailing - all he has is the appearance of muscles or musculature - which is also seen on Optimal Optimus beast chest. So the argument could be made that yes Optimal Optimus is still retaining some organic nature.

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Optimal Optimus' body has no organic motifs on it at all, unlike other Transmetals. His robot and beast modes are completely robotic/mechanical in appearance.

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Originally Posted by Ode to a Grasshopper

It's quite possible (albeit just more fanwank/conjecture) that the sparks of OP and Megs (being both 'guzzler' sparks and exceptionally powerful ones at that) mingle initially until their host bodies are capable of holding them and then return to being separate once it's 'safe' to do so.

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He called them "Archaic Energon guzzlers," i.e. the Autobot and Decepticons are less fuel efficient than Maximals and Predacons (similar to how people might call a car with poor fuel economy a "petrol guzzler"). Remember that in G1 Micromasters were created as means of conserving fuel, and in Beast Wars the Maximals and Predacons are shown to be of approximate Micromaster size, and implied as being more fuel efficient (if Autobots/Decepticons are fuel guzzlers in their eyes). In the Wreckers comic we saw that, at the end of the Great War, Cybertronians like Rodimus, Arcee, Skywarp, Ravage etc. underwent the Maximal/Predacon Upgrade - which reduced them to the size of Micromasters and improved their fuel economy.

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Originally Posted by Verno

I say 'perhaps controlled' because G1 Megs seems to exhibit no influence on BW Megs, unlike Starscream who took over Waspinator head to toe.

Although, you could speculate that given the bodies of G1 Prime and Megs were in stasis, and their Lasercores perhaps offline, they couldn't influence their host's bodies.

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Starscream had an indestructible mutant Spark -- its properties are unique and can't really be compared with others (hence why Maximal scientists attempted to replicate it when they made Protoform X). For whatever reason, Starscream's Spark can never be extinguished or returned to the AllSpark/Matrix. It only wanders aimlessly as a ghost.

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Originally Posted by Verno

I'm still not sold on the 'mingling' or 'mixing' of Sparks - I'm certain they'd remain separate at all times.

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I agree, BW's writers would be inviting too much controversy to hint that the G1 Sparks exhibited even an inkling of influence by Sparks from the future (see that Futurama episode where Fry travels back in time to the 1960's? :eek::p).

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Originally Posted by Verno

I say 'perhaps controlled' because G1 Megs seems to exhibit no influence on BW Megs, unlike Starscream who took over Waspinator head to toe.

Although, you could speculate that given the bodies of G1 Prime and Megs were in stasis, and their Lasercores perhaps offline, they couldn't influence their host's bodies.

So much speculation!

It's all about coming up with a series of rules that answer the unanswered questions for yourself I guess.

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Perhaps, in Waspinator's case, Starscream was able to exert full dominance over Waspinator's body because Starscream's immortal Spark was so much powerful compared to Waspinator's Spark. A bit like those junk possessed by ghost movies (sorry no particular title comes to mind, just movies I watched as a kid in the 90's). So in G1 Megs/BW Megs' situation, you have two very powerful sparks where the visitor isn't able to dominate over the incumbent's body.

Also, just watched a SBS documentary on hypnosis yesterday, about how weaker minded individuals are more open and susceptible to suggestion, and thus more easily controlled by hypnosis.

I think Verno's idea has some merit too -- the fact that Optimus Prime and G1 Megs' Sparks were dormant at the time, whereas Starscream's was very much active. Cross that with the mutation whereas G1 Megs' Spark probably isn't, and we know for sure that Optimus Prime's isn't (cos we've seen his Spark return to the Matrix in G1, especially when he died and Rodimus Prime was running around as leader)

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Originally Posted by SuspectimusPrime

Also, just watched a SBS documentary on hypnosis yesterday, about how weaker minded individuals are more open and susceptible to suggestion, and thus more easily controlled by hypnosis.

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http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g6...mind-trick.jpg

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g6...mind-trick.jpg

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lol, Yes I was trying to avoid a Star Wars reference :p

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Neither did Tigerhawk. His TM2 body was created purely by the Vok without any apparent contact with a Transmetal Driver. It seems that the Deluxe and Mega TM2s were created by the driver, but the Ultras had different origins (again, really because Hasbro wanted them in the show -- remember that this part of Season 3 was written in a rush because Hasbro had ordered the cancellation of the series and the writers were trying to wrap up loose ends _while_ trying to introduce the last batch of toys at the same time).

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But the Transmetal Driver is of Vok origin - thus Tigerhawk got his 'transmetal' powers directly from the source.

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But I think the reason why Optimus Primal got a more "massive" upgrade was because he mingled his Spark not only with a G1 Titan like Optimus Prime, but because said Spark had been in direct contact with the Matrix -- and he also transferred Prime's Spark directly from the Matrix vessel. G1 Megatron's Spark, while also a mighty Titan, wasn't in contact with the Matrix. I think that could explain why he didn't upgrade into an "Optimal Megatron."

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Megs got an equally "massive" upgrade. Sure he doesn't have a 4th mode, but he grows quite considerably in both size and power, so much so that he is actually able to best Primal in their final fight.

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Optimal Optimus' body has no organic motifs on it at all, unlike other Transmetals. His robot and beast modes are completely robotic/mechanical in appearance.

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And what organic motifs does TM Rattrap have?

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Originally Posted by Verno

But the Transmetal Driver is of Vok origin - thus Tigerhawk got his 'transmetal' powers directly from the source.

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Fair point.

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Originally Posted by Verno

Megs got an equally "massive" upgrade. Sure he doesn't have a 4th mode, but he grows quite considerably in both size and power, so much so that he is actually able to best Primal in their final fight.

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The nature of their upgrades may have differed due to Optimus Primal's transformation having been somehow influenced or affected by the Matrix; if in no other sense, cosmetically (i.e. no organic appearance). Although having a fourth mode, deployable shields, gatling cannons etc. is pretty significant (it doesn't make Primal unbeatable of course, but it's certainly impressive nonetheless).

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Originally Posted by Verno

And what organic motifs does TM Rattrap have?

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As you said, the musculature, which runs throughout his entire torso, arms and legs. The way that the body and limbs are sculpted have always looked organic to me. He looks like a big muscly dude carrying a robotic-rat backpack. ;) If you look at Optimus Primal's robot mode, there's nothing even remotely like that. Everything's angular, smooth and machine-looking. Robotic robot mode, robotic beast mode and mechanical looking vehicle modes.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

As you said, the musculature, which runs throughout his entire torso, arms and legs. The way that the body and limbs are sculpted have always looked organic to me. He looks like a big muscly dude carrying a robotic-rat backpack. ;) If you look at Optimus Primal's robot mode, there's nothing even remotely like that. Everything's angular, smooth and machine-looking. Robotic robot mode, robotic beast mode and mechanical looking vehicle modes.

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That very same musculature is present on Op Op's Beast mode chest:

http://www.seibertron.com/images/toy...optimus012.jpg

Yes, this differs from other TMs, who show their 'organic' part in robot mode, but it is still present in Op Op's design.

Yeah, but those are robo-abs. It lacks the organic quality of the musculature sculpted on Rattrap which looks more 'fibrous' and 'sinewy' (for lack of gooder words). They're like the kinda abs you see on Iron Man's armour. ;) Besides, the idea is for the robot mode to look organic while the beast mode looks robotic. OpOp looks robotic in both robot and beast modes, whereas other Transmetals look robotic in beast, organic in robot.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Yeah, but those are robo-abs. It lacks the organic quality of the musculature sculpted on Rattrap which looks more 'fibrous' and 'sinewy' (for lack of gooder words). They're like the kinda abs you see on Iron Man's armour. ;) Besides, the idea is for the robot mode to look organic while the beast mode looks robotic. OpOp looks robotic in both robot and beast modes, whereas other Transmetals look robotic in beast, organic in robot.

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He has toes. Game, set and match.

Well, this got interesting. Cheers to both of you, the various explanations make enough sense and/or are sufficiently plausible for my (extremely lax) standards that I'm not really fussed by it anymore.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

The nature of their upgrades may have differed due to Optimus Primal's transformation having been somehow influenced or affected by the Matrix; if in no other sense, cosmetically (i.e. no organic appearance). Although having a fourth mode, deployable shields, gatling cannons etc. is pretty significant (it doesn't make Primal unbeatable of course, but it's certainly impressive nonetheless).

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Just tossing this out there, but if you include Prime's trailer (and/or Roller) he sorta does have multiple alt-modes. It's a bit of a stretch, but no more so than a lot of TF lore let alone fanon.
Or you could just, you know, use the actual reason, but that's far less fun.:)

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Originally Posted by Verno

He has toes.

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Robotic toes. :rolleyes: Almost every Transformer has some kind of robotic organic part on them somewhere; fingers, noses, mouthes, facial "hair," head hair, teeth etc. Didn't necessarily make them organic per se. The thing with Transmetals was, as you said before, the beast modes looked robotic, but the robot modes looked organic - and it went far beyond just having fingers and toes. Half the Bayverse Transformers have toes (including Optimus Prime, Megatron, Ironhide etc.) -- doesn't make them organic, does it? Toes (or at least some form of foot articulation) is actually something any upright standing bipedal being HAS to have in order to walk! Even Masterpiece Optimus Prime has foot articulation... I don't consider that toy to be organic though. But you compare OpOp's beast mode with say Ultra Optimus Primal or Air Attack Optimus Primal's beast modes -- they look much more organic because they have detailed sculpted fur, skin wrinkles and their nails/claws are sculpted to look more organic.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Robotic toes. :rolleyes: Almost every Transformer has some kind of robotic organic part on them somewhere; fingers, noses, mouthes, facial "hair," head hair, teeth etc. Didn't necessarily make them organic per se. The thing with Transmetals was, as you said before, the beast modes looked robotic, but the robot modes looked organic - and it went far beyond just having fingers and toes. Half the Bayverse Transformers have toes (including Optimus Prime, Megatron, Ironhide etc.) -- doesn't make them organic, does it? Toes (or at least some form of foot articulation) is actually something any upright standing bipedal being HAS to have in order to walk! Even Masterpiece Optimus Prime has foot articulation... I don't consider that toy to be organic though. But you compare OpOp's beast mode with say Ultra Optimus Primal or Air Attack Optimus Primal's beast modes -- they look much more organic because they have detailed sculpted fur, skin wrinkles and their nails/claws are sculpted to look more organic.

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OMG she's a Transmetal!:eek:
Suddenly her acting skills are explained...:D

Transmetal Optimal Optimus is as organic as most of the Transmetal Predacons.

Robotic musculature is their only 'organic' feature as well.

Transmetal Predacons have organic features, though not as "mammalian" as the Maximals. For example, Terrorsaur's hands and legs look organic, Megatron has a kind of leathery/scaly reptilian aesthetic, and Rampage's "skin" looks like a crustacean carapace, Tarantulas' hands and legs look fibrous (and he has organic like claws on his fingertips), Scavenger's shoulders, thighs and feet resemble a chitinous insectoid look etc.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...summoner19.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Transmetal Predacons have organic features, though not as "mammalian" as the Maximals. For example, Terrorsaur's hands and legs look organic, Megatron has a kind of leathery/scaly reptilian aesthetic, and Rampage's "skin" looks like a crustacean carapace, Tarantulas' hands and legs look fibrous (and he has organic like claws on his fingertips), Scavenger's shoulders, thighs and feet resemble a chitinous insectoid look etc.

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So things simply being textured is considered organic?

Look at Op Op's feet and hands. The colour changes from orange to brown. The same colour change also appears on the chest/torso:

http://www.seibertron.com/images/toy...optimus012.jpg

Look familiar to a previous Optimus form at all?

http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/6/6b/Co...mus_Primal.jpg

http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/3/3e/Ba...robot_mode.jpg

Optimal Optimus also had hair on his forearms and upper legs. Definitely organic material on the robot mode.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seraphim Prime

Optimal Optimus also had hair on his forearms and upper legs. Definitely organic material on the robot mode.

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^This. The CGI model doesn't show it well, but you can see it clearly sculpted on the toy.