How would you redesign/improve combining transformers, be it either the gimmick or the packaging or the combination design itself?
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How would you redesign/improve combining transformers, be it either the gimmick or the packaging or the combination design itself?
instead of having them combine into a gigantic humanoid robot, let them combine into other things like a giant battle turtle or something.
- No fists, feet, head or chest pieces to plug in. Each limb have 3 modes (alt, bot, limb). I believe Liokaiser is like this.
- Better connecting places, most arms combine at the shoulder joint which is very weak, make the arms or the torso include the whole shoulder.
- And better connectors, not just a plug.
By bringing back robot modes for the gestalt components :)Quote:
Originally Posted by morg176
Except for the head - which is still a detachable accessory, all of Liokaiser's gestalt parts are self-contained. This was a revolutionary concept for G1 (1989). Beast Wars gave us the first gestalts with fully self-contained gestalt parts though (Tripredacus and Magnaboss) and the new-moulded gestalts in Car Robot/RiD (JRX and Buildking) followed suit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deonasis
Unfortunately we went kinda backwards in 2004 with the Energon/Superlink Gestalts whose hands and feet were detachable accessories.
i agree with what has been said so far. Gestalts must have a proper hand and some kind of real foot so that they can at stand in a pose.
im not fond of the spring loaded feature of the pcc combiners as transforming the limbs was half the fun, and yes the limbs have to have a robot mode. the dinosaur/ animal mode of grimstomes drones is a halfway thing but still they should be robots too.
proper hands is a must, not weird 3 pronged claws or bizzar out of proportion mangle looking things.... 4 fingers and a thumb that can hold a weapon
pentadactyl hands are definitely a must! but dont forget there is more to combiners than just 5 robots that join up.
doucons (an awesome idea poorly translated to the toy world)
you could also do two animals that join up into one robot, the combinations are endless, but the components would have to be engineered to each other, not freely modular like in PCC as there are way too many compromises.
ALSO what gimmicks should be kept/re'engineered, which ones work and which fall short (head, target, power master etc)
what would you do if you could do anything in creating a combining/and or /gimmick line for tf, and what size point would it be at, justify your answers!
I think detachable parts are ok IF they can be stored somewhere in bot and alt mode, and if they actualy look like something. The Energon accessories might have been ok if they actualy looked like robot feet or fists and not transparent wierd things.:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Yeah that's what the concept that the Crossfire sets executed, specially the Bruticus one. All 'Combiner kibble' can be used as weapons or upgrades for the individual figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Zed
Bigger component bots too.
G1 Predaking could step on today's PCCs (or at least he could if he had articulated legs).
The Beast Wars combiners, Magnaboss and Tripredacus, have some good design features. For starters, they're not your basic 'Voltron' assmbly.
Ball joints were a great step forward in TF toy technology, but you'll notice they aren't overly prevelant in these figures, they still needed to be sturdy enough to function in the combined mode. Playability in a combiner, who'd have thought it possible.
But perhaps with the focus on the grandeur of the combined mode, the robot modes for the individual figures did suffer a little. In Magnaboss' case: Ironhides lack of any sort of hands what so ever is saddening. Silverbolt is basically still in beast mode in robot mode with the gigantic wings on his back but Prowl comes through with a pretty solid robot mode, apart from the kibble-tastic lions mane on his back.
In regards to Tripredacus: Sea Clamp's failure is obvious. He comes with a launcher he can neither hold nor shoot anything from off his own bot. Ram Horn and Cicadacon have pretty convincing robot modes though.
All 6 beast modes are good, perhaps with the exception of Silverbolt. Again those gigantic wings are troublesome. With some design retooling, some detatchable launchers and missiles would cure the flaw of the bulky wings. But the others are solid beasts, with the usual amount of robotics showing but thats to be expected from the BW line in general and are by no means the worst offenders.
I'd love to see Hasbro have another crack at these or figures in this vein. Perhaps the Cybertronian modes of the Magnaboss and Tripredacus.
But it was the abandonment of the, up to that point, norm (The limb and torso combination, the umpteen loose accessories and peg in hole connection etc) and total rehashing of the idea by Kenner which led to these changes. If only Hasbro could again hand Kenner over the reigns and get them to give it another go, but oops, they ate them and destroyed any trace of them.
With a bit more focus on the single robot modes, but not at the expense of either of the two modes of course, I think combiners could work very well in future TF lines.
But of course it may not be in Hasbro's best interests. Look how many different versions on Devastator they put out in ROTF. Ones that combine, ones they don't, ones that only combine every second tuesday, green and purple ones...
More money to be made in non-functioning combiners obviously!
I like the idea of powercore combiners in that there are commander central transformers and interchangable limb units. I would like to see this in a larger scale. It would be great to have universe ultra size commanders combining with deluxe size arm/leg transformers that all have robot/alt mode/combiner modes. Much like PCC you could make your own combiner. I look at my universe ultra onslaught and think how cool it would be to add deluxe size arms and legs to him. These would be epic
sold separately
$60 Ultra Commander (3-4 diff molds)
$25 Deluxe limbs (8-12 diff arm/leg molds)
or
$150 Giftset
I'd like to see a Devastator that uses the Power Core Combiners concept of limbs that transform from vehicles when snapped together. including Robot modes of course.
When you push Scavenger and Hook together with Scrapper they form arms and a head, snap Long Haul onto this combo and he forms a waist and thighs then Bonecrusher and Mixmaster form calves and feet. In my head it looks like the Devastator from All Hail Megatron. Sigh. If only I could make toys.
I liked the idea of Power Core Combiners until I bought the first wave 5-packs. Now I'm pretty disillusioned :(
Sad but true :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Verno
Yeah PCC's are just to Power Rangerish for me, it also bugs me that the Commanders and Drones are different scales. If the Commanders were big vehicles and the Drones smaller ones then that would make more sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
As for the three bot combiners the combined form of the Shinkansen team is pretty well executed too.
Sure as long as they make the body bigger too, like a Voyager and Deluxe team maybe. I'm not a big fan of Predaking because his torso is so small compared to his limbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
Make a combiner team made up of Drift clones.:p
Drift Clones! Combine into...Sky Shadow's worst NIGHTMARE!! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
If all else fails, make them BIG!
and sell em cheap;) we always get ripped off nowadays with size classification gone wrong.... deluxe size in a voyager box - Im looking at you Animated Lugnut!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Verno
Sick him, Skyshadow! (:
what??!? as awesome as Lugnut may be, he is still midget class and not Voyager as Hasbro would have us ( and our pockets) believe. were he voyager he would be as big as Grimlock at least :p same with that first release Bulkhead figure :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by dirge
what about an insecticons PCC 5 pack, and extra dino linbs for the dinobot PCC.
Which dinos would you like to see as limbs and which dinos as tiorso's
do you think that animals make better drones than vehicles, at least personalities can be attributed to animals
i think duocon type combiners are worth another hit and i would have loved to see them in an animated style [one of my favourite]
which two vehicles/two animals would you have as components in your doucon/bionbot
I wish theyd make the PCC commanders- (the 2 pack ones) able to plug into each other:p to make up a bugger combiner bot with minicon armour/weapons attached, now that would be awesome! Anyone could end up either as a limb, or torso, and each has a different head and personality hehehe
Another idea
Combining this idea with the other thread - Mythological Tfs, How about smaller monsters that combine into a gestalt monster!? Its always been that Gestalts so far ended up in humanoid form why not a gestalt Hydra or Gestalt Gryphon?
I wish the PCC limbs could transform into robots! Automorphing drones FTL. :(
Not always. There's one gestalt with a saurian form and another with a non-sapien hominid ("ape"*) form. I'm not sure how marketable non-sapien gestalt forms would be... cos both of those examples were/are massive shelf-warmers.Quote:
Originally Posted by liegeprime
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*cos technically sapiens are apes ;)
yeah well, both of those two were poorly executed, the giant new version devy are more of like a buncha drones coming together... and as for animorphs?!? ( need I say more):rolleyes: even powrrangers with the blocky zords are more acceptable than animorphs, ugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Honestly i dont know that any combiners work well really. To me the closest is Rail Racer from RID. They looked good as individual units and as a whle, it held together well and they still had good alt modes. Make em like that! :)
due to their very nature, gestalts are all about compromise. But as you said, the better gestalts are the ones that hold up well as individual units and in combined gestalt form. I find Predaking to be a pretty good gestalt by 1986 standards. Of course, he's also really expensive. :p But I find most gestalts are pretty well made. I've only bought two gestalts that disappointed me at the time of purchase:
+ 1989, when I completed Monstructor. Most underwhelming.
+ 2010, when I bought Combiner Class Devastator. F'expensively underwhelming! :(
Otherwise I've always been stoked with my gestalts. :)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...th_g1_1988.jpg
my premise for gestalts is the following.
for teams of 5 where you have a core bot and limbs [be it clones or bots in their own right] many aspects of a really cool gestalt will often be sacrificed for the engineering of the toy to be cost effective, hopefully this will change into the direction of some of the third party tf that have recently been released.
As i stated in a previous message in this thread, one combiner group that was very much short lived was the duocons, unfortunately these figures were poorly executed with essentially no articulation. But the premise itself was a sound one. if redesigned to include :animals and/or vehicles as components and with each figure having components that have been engineered only to fit together and not with every other piece. Either two animals/two vehicles/1x animal + 1x vehicle would tf together to form a larger [deluxe] robot from 2 x scout size figures.
Also, 'partner' gimmicks like minicons proved favourable to many, yet often lacking in something. What about the following: A robot and an animal combination: they tf together into a vehicle like a car or a jet etc.
highly detailed animal partners would be brimming with weapons and may even carry the weapons of the robot as part of their form [flight feather becomes daggers...]
what do you think?
Morg the way you've described your idea for modern Duocons is pretty much the exact premise of the Autobot figures in Energon. Figure with alt mode, robot mode, and half of a larger robot mode.
please do not assume that the duocon makeover is intended to be similar to the energon 2bot combiners. I was never fond of that line. And i think that too much was compromised to have any two random autobots combinable.
I disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkyMcShark
Duocons have two vehicles that merge to form a single robot, but each vehicle does NOT transform into an autonomous robot. The Energon Powerlinx Autobots are more similar to G1's Multi-Force. Like Energon Superlinkers, each Multiforce Autobot can transform into a vehicle and robot, and any two robot can combine with each other to form a larger robot (e.g. Wing can merge with Waver to form Wingwaver, or Waver can merge with Wing to form Waverwing etc.). Although IMO 1989's Multiforcers were better because:
+ The combined robot was a new entity (as demonstrated in Mach and Tackle), whereas in Energon it seems that the top robot is in charge.
+ With the toy a new head would emerge depending on who was on top, and it wasn't that robot's actual head. e.g. If Mach combined with Tackle, you'd see Mach's "combiner head" and not Mach's actual head. In Energon if you combine say Hot Shot with Inferno, it's still Hot Shot's head on the combined form.
+ The Multiforcers can all merge into the gestalt robot Landcross. The Energon Powerlinxers can't combine together to form a gestalt, and the Energon gestalt robots can't Powerlinx!
Magmatron is more similar to a Duocon, only that he has three alternate forms that combine to form a gestalt robot form (as well as a gestalt beast form!) - although the crucial difference is that Magmatron doesn't have a spring activated single touch transformation gimmick. And I think that was the Duocon's main compromise. I don't mind the concept of having different alt forms combining into a robot, but I think having them as an "activator" restricts the engineering. I know there are a lot of really cool one-touch transformation toys out there, like the flipchangers and a lot of the Activators are pretty neat -- but of course, none of them are combiners. If they wanted to revisit the Duocon concept then I'd rather they didn't revisit the single-touch spring activation.
Then you didn't read what he actually wroteQuote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Well how is it different then? Two figures with alt and robot modes form halves of a larger robot - the only way it could be conceptually different is if they were specifically partnered with eachother.Quote:
Originally Posted by morg176
a makeover of the duocon concept [although it might need a name change], hmm, i would lose all the springloaded stuff and maybe even go with a 'animated style' approach, 2 scout vehicles [or animals] that form a robot, or more correctly one robot that splits into two vehicles.
What two vehicles/animals/mix would you chose if you were a duocon/bot
Has anyone played with a Chogokin Aquarion? Not much info around ... but there is this review. The bit that makes it unique is:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5.../Aqaurion2.jpgQuote:
Basicly, any of the 3 vectors can become arms, legs or back, and each vector has its own head..... You can also combine the vectors to make a bigger spaceship, or a 4 armed mech.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5...0/Aquarion.jpg
Some more pics here
Reminds me of LandfillQuote:
any of the 3 vectors can become arms, legs or back,
I see the misunderstanding, and let me apologise if i did not make myself as clear as i should have, my bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkyMcShark
There would be a single robot who would split/decompile into 2 x vehicles as his alt mode. just like flywheels did. 1 x robot > two vehicles [tank + jet]
Curse my incomplete knowledge of Transformers!Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkyMcShark