Gun-Formers (imitation weapons) laws and requirements for Australia

[UltraMarginal]

To further complicate the NSW laws section, I recall when the ruling came through on the MP Megatron that they were waiving the $75 fee for that specific item. I'm not sure if that's still the case.

[griffin]

To further complicate the NSW laws section, I recall when the ruling came through on the MP Megatron that they were waiving the $75 fee for that specific item. I'm not sure if that's still the case.

I had to do another search, using the form number on the Megatron Club site, and it looks like Tiby had organised the gun toys to be grouped under the "Prohibited" weapons classification instead of the "Imitation" weapons classification that I had first come across.

Under the Prohibited weapons classification, you do need to be a current member of an approved collector club, but the four listed do not include the Megatron Club... so even though his option may have been set up back in 2011, the current version of the PDF form is 2013, so there may not be a guarantee anymore that registering for a Prohibited Weapons permit will be approved or waive the $127 fee. (it is a more expensive permit too, for the same 5-year period)

I will update that section to include both options... for people to consider which one is the best or easiest for them. (and in case the Megatron Club folds, people have a backup option)
And will check from the official source (when they reply to my earlier email), IF Gun-Formers are still applicable as "Prohibited Weapons", or just "Imitation Firearms"... or both.

If classed as a Prohibited Weapon, and IF they still waive the fee for the toy, the 5-year permit will cost $50 due to the Club fees, compared to the Imitation Firearm permit costing $75 for 5 years.


Hmmm.... now I'm wondering if other states that didn't mention anything about Imitation Weapons, also class toys and other fake guns as "prohibited weapons" instead. (I was only searching for the terms used by Customs)
I'll have to go back to each Police website and look again.

[griffin]

A couple of replies to my emails have come in, which I have to process, because some technical jargon like legal definitions is included... like one State noted that Firearms are not classed as weapons in their jurisdiction - as they are treated differently legally with different levels of restrictions.

I have also added in a photo I had referred to once before, from here, that I have edited... so that official Police sources know what I am referring to with these particular toys.
(Just noting that the Masterpiece Megatron in that photo has some add-on parts that didn't come with the actual toy. I might have to take my own photo... I just didn't want to have to risk transforming my MP Megatron again.)

It is probably also worth noting the previous discussion topic about Gun-Formers in Australia.

[GoktimusPrime]

NSW does send reminder letters when your permit is coming close to expiry.

[griffin]

I've added a second photo showing their robot modes... for reference to non-collectors.
I am in the process of replacing the first photo with my own group photo.

I have also done some minor edits after chatting for a while to some Customs officials today when picking up my Gold Masterpiece Megatron.

So far I have had email replies from NT, TAS, WA, VIC, and NSW... which I will update their sections over the weekend.

Still waiting for replies from QLD, SA, ACT, and Customs.

[griffin]

Just posting up the raw data from the Jurisdictions that have so far replied, so that people can see exactly what has been officially said, so that you can trust the info in the first post.

Just waiting for SA, ACT and Customs now.

One thing I'd like, is to have this page (or an actual webpage on the server) used for reference by Policing and Customs for themselves to keep track of the different jurisdictions (on this very minor/trivial element of the Criminal Justice System), and refer collectors to if they have any queries.


From NT (gave a lot of good info about how these are classified differently in each state according to the law)

I have looked at the reference page and some of the generic information provided is incorrect;

I will leave it to other jurisdictions to correct the wrong information pertaining to their jurisdiction.

In respect to the Northern Territory (NT) there are two specific pieces of legislation which regulate firearms and weapons. The NT Firearms Act and Regulations and the NT Weapons Control Act and Regulations.

As the names imply one piece of legislation pertains to the administration of firearms and the other to all other weapons which do not fall under the administration of the Firearms Act.

Note;

· all information provided relates to the NT only
· regulations, definitions etc. vary considerably between jurisdictions
· a firearm is not a weapon
· a ‘replica’ is a reproduction of a firearm and is a firearm as the originally manufactured firearm was
· a ‘imitation’ firearm is an item which looks like a real firearm but is not capable of discharging a projectile (the definition of a firearm needs to be considered and the definitions vary between jurisdictions)
· many ‘toy’ firearms fall under an ‘imitation’ firearm by their appearance and size (a toy which looks like the real thing but is bright pink or has a red paint or a plug at the muzzle may well still be a prohibited weapon)
· ‘blank’ firing imitations are still prohibited weapons unless they are capable of discharging a projectile which would by definition make the item a firearm

A good example of what an imitation firearm is are the ‘blue’ guns used by law enforcement agencies for firearms training. These are not firearms but because of their appearance are an ‘imitation’ firearm and in the NT treated as a ‘Prohibited Weapon’. A firearm carved out of wood and painted up to look like the actual item is an imitation firearm and would a prohibited weapon. It does not matter that it cannot discharge any projectile and that the only harm one could cause is to hit someone with it or drop it on their toe.

A Prohibited Weapons licence is required to possess any ‘prohibited weapons’ in the NT.

Application is made in much the same way as that for a firearms licence. Specific checks are conducted to ascertain the suitability of someone to hold this type of licence. Storage requirements do vary depending on the type of prohibited weapon the licence is sought for. These are considered through the addition of specific condition codes on the licence which mandate any storage requirements or any other requirements specific to the application type.

Importation

Items which are regulated at a federal level may or may not be regulated at a jurisdictional level. There are many items which are seized by Customs at importation where a permit is required from the respective jurisdiction to enable release to the person by Customs. In some cases Import approval is provided for items which are not regulated in the NT or are only ‘controlled’. This office has granted import permits for the release of items held by Customs where no licencing is required to possess the item in the NT.

In other cases items are seized by Customs as the person importing was not aware of their obligations and application is made for the appropriate licence to enable possession.

Purchase Domestically

Generally only items which are not regulated or that are only controlled are available over the counter without any licencing. Most retailers are aware of their obligations. The difficulty being that regulation varies between states and territories. Another example - not specifically a ‘toy gun’ are crossbows. These are prohibited in some jurisdiction’s (no possession is permitted at all) whereas in the NT they are controlled under the Weapons Control Act which enables ownership provided certain criteria are met.

Sale

Any items which require the possessor to hold a licence could only be sold to someone who is also appropriately licenced in the same manner provided they are required to hold a licence in the jurisdiction they are resident.

Collectors are only specifically considered in the NT under the Firearms Act. Prohibited Weapons licences have been issued to ‘bona fide collectors’ for prohibited weapons on the provision of appropriate supporting documentation in support of the application.

From TAS (this one is a tricky one, as "toy guns" don't need a permit or license, BUT, it says it comes down to "reasonably be taken to be a firearm", and in Gun-Mode, these Megatron toys can easily be taken to be a firearm if you wave it around in public or in someone's terrified face... I may have to include details for licensing just in case someone is worried or paranoid about being raided and found with them.)

Please find below the explanation for the management of replica/imitation firearms in Tasmania.

"Imitation/Replica Firearms
The definition of a 'firearm' in the Firearms Act 1996 includes 'an imitation other than a toy'. It is the size and features of the item which make it an imitation, not the colour. If it is clearly a toy it is not an imitation firearm. If it could reasonably be taken to be a firearm then it is considered an imitation firearm.

The only 'genuine reason' to possess imitation (or replica) firearms is firearms collection. The licence holder must have the appropriate category endorsed for the specific firearm and be a member of an Collection Club/Organisation. Imitation firearms are not required to be registered although all other provisions of the Act (including safekeeping and storage) apply to imitation firearms."

From WA (Similar to TAS, it refers to "IF" clearly not a toy... as in, its appearance being an accurate representation... but in WA the classification of Imitation Firearm still doesn't require a permit or license - just a lawful reason (to keep at home in a toy collection). The only restriction is not to be sold to people under 18.)

To import any toy that has the appearance of a firearm, or an imitation firearm, the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service requires the submission of a B709 Police Certification Certificate. The application form can be downloaded from the WAPOL website at www.police.wa.gov.au · If an item is already in the country, no permit or licence is required in Western Australia.
· A permit or licence is not required in Western Australian to possess an Imitation firearm, just a lawful reason and purpose. (They are classified as controlled weapons within the Weapons Regulations 1999, Schedule 2)
· A seller of imitation firearms must comply with the Weapons Act 1999 and Weapons Regulations 1999. Imitation firearms cannot be sold to juveniles (Person under 18 years of age). If an item is clearly a toy it is not classified as an imitation firearm as described in the Weapons Regulations 1999, Schedule 2.

From VIC (basically agreed with everything I had above, but are seeking further clarification)

Licensing & Regulation Division is in receipt of your email seeking clarification on the legal requirements to possess a imitation firearms.

Please be advised that in order to possess an imitation firearm a person needs to first obtain either a Chief Commissioner of Police Approval (CCP) or a Governor In Council Exemption (GIC).

Having a CCP or a GIC covers a business or individual for the purposes of possession, acquisition, disposal and display of imitation firearms.

The cost of a CCP is $178.70 for 3 years. After which the holder of a CCP is required to reapply for another CCP.

If a person wishes to import an imitation firearm, the person needs to ensure they have a CCP or a GIC prior to making an application for a and obtaining an Import Permit. There is no cost involved in this process.

From NSW (looks like it is now classed as an Imitation Firearm, not the Prohibited Weapons classification from 2011... but I will ask to be sure - and membership to the Megatron Club is still required, but no mention about the waiving of the Permit fee... which I'll also ask. Selling from NSW does indeed require a Weapons Dealer to be a party to the sale, but NOT if you are buying one from outside of NSW.)

Transformers now require an Imitation Collector Firearms Permit - the link to the information and application forms follow:

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/services/firearms/permits/firearms_permits/imitation_-_collector

Membership to a Megatron club is still required.

Imitation firearms are not required to be registered and no PTA is required to purchase them.

If purchasing in NSW, the seller would be required to be licensed to sell imitation firearms.

If selling the imitation firearm the disposal transaction would need to be witnessed by a Firearms Dealer.

Same process in regards to importing the items and the link to our B709 applications follows:

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/services/firearms/importing_firearms

From QLD (pretty much confirmed everything I had already, plus mentioned that I should include details about what constitutes a "misuse" of these items... which I will note in the first posting)

I note that on the forum posted on the website you have the following information:

QUEENSLAND - Replica Category H Firearm
(Legal to own without any Permits)
Contact details
07 3015 7777
weaponslicensing@police.qld.gov.au
http://www.police.qld.gov.au - (Weapons Licensing)

Requirements:
To import - Customs Import permit (form B709 - Tick "A" - NO FEE - submit to a Police Station or Weapons Licensing, with 4-8 weeks to process and post back to you) -
To purchase domestically - Yet to be confirmed if a Permit to Acquire is required.
To own - No license or registration required for replica non-firing Firearms
To sell - Waiting for confirmation, but looks okay to privately sell, if the buyer is permitted to own one in their jurisdiction.

These requirements are correct.

Replica Category H firearms are not subject to licensing and registration requirements within Queensland and do not require permit to acquire to acquire. There is also no issues with privately selling them after purchase etc.

HOWEVER, those in possession should still take note of the misuse provisions under Section 51 to 59 of the Weapons Act 1990.

[griffin]

After spending about half an hour figuring out how to transformer my MP Megatrons (with extra care not to break them), I have now replaced the temporary "borrowed" photo of their Gun Modes in the first post.
Both photos are now ours for future reference, and can be used with permission.

I also got an email today from Customs, which pretty much says what I already had... so just SA and ACT left to reply.

Please note that the toys are regarded as replica firearms and replica firearms have the same import permissions as firearms for the purposes of the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service and restrictions and permissions for importing and exporting apply.
To bring a firearm into Australia, it is necessary for the importer to obtain a 'Form B709A: Importation of Firearms - Police Confirmation' from the Police Service of the state of Australia that the firearm will be imported into. Visit this link for a list of contacts for the police in each state. The link also supplies all the relevant fact sheets outlining the requirements for importation http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page4372.asp

You will need to obtain the B709A before you may import the firearm.

Please note that the Firearm will need to be fully declared on importation into Australia and Customs Duty/GST may be required to be paid.

[griffin]

I have updated everything except NSW (it's more complicated than other sections so I need to get it right), NT (they provided a lot of information to process), and ACT (waiting on a Supreme Court ruling before I can fill out that section).

All sections note as "complete" are as complete as I can get it, until such time that it changes (like SA, which I have a feeling was just one person's interpretation, which might see them classed as "replica" later).

I have therefore added in quoted replies, to prove that the information was exactly as obtained or approved.

[griffin]

Okay... that should now be as much as I can do now, until the ACT procedures are finalised.
There is a little confusion over the NT section in terms of the legal classification of these toys, but since you can't do anything online to register or apply for permits anyway, it has been noted that you need to contact the Firearms Division regardless of what we know or can do.
NSW also took some time to update as it now looks like the old P638 Prohibited Weapons Permit no longer applies, and that the P634 Firearms Permit does. Both have the same requirements like storage and Club membership, and both have their fee waived (but you might need to remind them of it if asked for payment), and both are 5-year permits.
One thing I need to check now is if the Megatron Club is still active, for collectors to use in order to have their Permit fee waived.


The topic was pinned, and I will look at producing a website page for it on our site, so that it isn't just on this messageboard as if it is just for Ozformers members.

[Jetfire in the sky]

Should this thread go into "The Matrix" section of the boards?