Rodimus Prime as a leader

[jimoinj]

Okay, Goktimus, I admit I didn't specify the G1 english version of the cartoon. I had assumed that was for an english speaking country's board was a given. I did specify season 3, which I don't think anyone is saying Headmasters is. So when I said it's not canon, I of course meant in terms of the G1 english version of the series, not the Japanese version.

And yeah I do prefer the Rodimus Prime from the comics, he was a more consistently written character, though not necessarily a much better leader.

Anyway, hope that marks the end of this philosophical debate about all things being equal!

[jimoinj]

Slightly off topic, I've gotta say it really was lame how Rodimus reverted back to Hot Rod whenever he lost the matrix. So all Rodimus is is a matrix-powered Hot Rod, there was no real growing up at all! In the comics as well. I don't think that plot device works well.

[kup]

Whatchoo mean? I'd miss BayPrime more than Rodimus. That face stealing, Decepticon executing son of a null ray is a way more ruthless and effective leader than mister everybody hates me Rodimus.

I mean that there is so little development of any of the Bay TFs that nobody would really care if they are gone.

They killed Prime - Meh
They killed Megatron - Meh
They Permakilled Jazz -Meh
They Permakilled Arcee - Meh

And on and on. It's not that they are good or if they are bad characters it's mostly that we know next to nothing about them in order to care if they are killed or not.

[jimoinj]

But The Headmasters is canon. It may part of a "splinter" continuity from the US cartoon, but it is still official canon. It's as valid a continuation from Season 3/TF2010 as The Rebirth.

I disagree. It is directly contradicted by rebirth, it is an alternative Japanese version of the G1 cartoon. If you choose to you can view it as canon, but it is just canon for the Japanese version of the cartoon, not the english version which is the one we all grew up with and watched.

Looking at the Japanese one, it doesn't even seem like the G1 cartoon. It was childish, very poorly voiced, with weird scenes and friendship power circles. Reminded me more of care bears than Transformers!

[GoktimusPrime]

I disagree. It is directly contradicted by rebirth, it is an alternative Japanese version of the G1 cartoon.

Hence why I said "splinter" in my last post. But just because it's a splinter continuity doesn't lessen its canonical validity in any way.

If you choose to you can view it as canon, but it is just canon for the Japanese version of the cartoon, not the english version which is the one we all grew up with and watched.

Yeah but that sounds like it's coming from your personal bias. The Japanese series IS official canon regardless of whether one grew up watching it. For example, some people didn't read the G1 comics while growing up with G1... would that lessen its canonical validity?

Basically any story written for Transformers in an official capacity with approval from Takara(TOMY) Co., Ltd or Hasbro Inc is official canon. Everyone may have their preferred canons, but that doesn't mean the less preferred ones are less canonically valid -- because preference is entirely subjective anyway. For example, I prefer the G1 comics over the G1 cartoon -- but it doesn't mean that therefore I would argue that the G1 cartoon is less canonically valid. IMO Rodimus Prime and Galvatron are suckful characters in the G1 cartoon and were much better portrayed in the Marvel Comics... but at the same time I still acknowledge the canonical validity of the G1 cartoon, as much as I may not like it as much as the comics.

Looking at the Japanese one, it doesn't even seem like the G1 cartoon. It was childish, very poorly voiced, with weird scenes and friendship power circles. Reminded me more of care bears than Transformers!

Just because something's different doesn't make it less worthy or valid. You might not like the Japanese G1 series - fine, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But I don't think it's fair to say that we should discount any continuities that we simply don't have a preference for.

Because if that's the case, a fair few people have already said that they prefer the G1 comics over the cartoon, so going by that standard perhaps we should utterly disregard the G1 cartoon and solely look at the comics.

[gekisou]

I agree with Goktimus here.

Just becos you did not grow up with Headmasters as a child does not mean someone else did not grow up with Headmasters... I mean, I watched it first as the shitty English dub but it made me actively seek out the original Japanese language version and I really liked it a lot more than 'The Rebirth'.

That makes it as valid as the US version... unless you specifically said you only wanted this discussion to be about the US version of Rodimus, even the Manga version, who is my preference, of Rodimus Prime (Convoy) would be my fave choice.

In the manga version of TF 2010, Rodimus was actually a competant leader... still brash and more willing to jump into action than planning an attack but they showed that these instincts helped him come up with unusual methods of defeating Galvy and his troops. Rodimus Kick

Still, I agree, Rodimus never really grew into his role and the writers didn't seem to know what direction they wanted to push him towards. In fact, I thought 'Dark Awakening' was gonna be a way to get Rodimus to get over his lack of faith in himself... it did not happen and I thought 'The Burdern Hardest to Bare' would be where he finally accepted his leadership duties... then Optimus came back to live... Sigh.

The Headmasters version of Rodimus Convoy actually was mature. He planned his missions. It was like Rodimus was suddenly more confident the second time Optimus (Convoy) died. It could just the way the Japanese writers actually saw him as but that version of Rodimus near what needed to be done. And him leaving after Seibertron blew up was due in part to a passing of the torch for Fortress so I was okay with that.

With the Marvel comics... I only read the US versions so I'm a little fuzzy on the UK stuff but the one time Rodimus appeared... he WAS DEAD!!! So much for any form of good leadership... make of it what you will.

[Hursticon]

I watched it first as the shitty English dub but it made me actively seek out the original Japanese language version and I really liked it a lot more than 'The Rebirth'.

Oh man I am SO with you on the Japanese voice actors for Headmasters!
IMO, Banjō Ginga's voice for Scorponok was absolutely AWESOME! - His voice made Orson Welles sound like an old fart!

Banjō Ginga as Scorponok = Evil!

[GoktimusPrime]

Orson Welles was a very old fart when he recorded the voice for Unicron. He often had to come in and out of recordings in a wheelchair. And of course, he passed away before the movie came out. There's an urban legend that Welles passed away before he could finish recording the final lines for Unicron and that Leonard Nimoy had to read those lines and his voice was electronically modified to sound like Unicron -- but I think that's been confirmed as being untrue.

[Fonecrusher]

I really liked Headmasters but there were a few weak points that prevented that series from being a classic for me:

-Optimus Prime dying
Yet again

-Some characters "out of character"
Rodimus all of a sudden quiting the war, Kup never fighting just sitting around in the control room complaining, Scourge and especially Cyclonus, two of the most powerful and fearsome Decepticons being turned into benny hill type bumbling henchmen and I'm not even going to mention Sixshot!

-Cybertron being blown up
To me Cybertron is just as much a part of Transformers as Autobots and Decepticons are, blowing it up was a bad move IMO, and made it seem like everything, pretty much every Transformer had fought for, whether Bot or Con seem in vain.

And in the end the Headmasters themselves just weren't that cool as Transformers... I got sick of seeing Chromedrome vs Weird Wolf or Hardhead vs Skullcruncher every episode for half the season, they spent about 10 episodes building up Scorponoks arrival and he proved just as ineffective a Decepticon leader as Galvatron was. It wasn't till near the end we got to see the conflict on a much bigger scale.

But yeah Rodimus I don't mind as an Autobot, I like what IDW is doing with the character but he's a bit of a fail as a leader IMO.

[LordCyrusOmega]

The Japanese cartoon, to me anyway, could be viewed as more relevant then the western version. It went beyond The Rebirth and developed characters more then in the western cartoon.

My only gripe is that it doesn't fit well with the Western continuity. In Headmasters Cybertron was destroyed. There for i have troubles fitting Beast Wars into this universe as it (and the subsequent Beast Machines) is set around Cybertron. While only a scene or to is set on Cybertron in Beast Wars, Beast Machines is st entirely on Cybertron.

I just set Headmasters in an alternate universe.