Aliens

[Hursticon]

Actually, the vast majority of 'UFO' sightings is the planet Venus.
Other things I'd put above aliens: wildlife, commercial aircraft, shooting stars, satellites, drugs.

LOL - Mostly drugs IMO.


Personally,
I'm of the opinion that no human on Earth could possibly formulate an accurate opinion on what constitutes life or it's environment as even the most intelligent person on the planet really knows absolutely squat on a Universal level and therefore couldn't accurately fathom what another form of life could be comprised of or it's environment.

Unfortunately we humans are, at present, condemned to only understand that which is immediately around us and that which has come before - Even the most open of minds is limited by the overwhelming mass of closed minds that populates this planet as it is only something in the vicinity of 5% of the world's population that is actually doing any actual thinking, the other 85% just live off of what the others come up with.

@Autocon: They could indeed be studying us but I IMO doubt this because what could they possibly learn from us? - Just by visiting they will of displayed how vastly superior to us they are, so it would be more likely that they'd be visiting a zoo of sorts.

@SkyWarp91: I hear that, or the Xenomorphs or Borg!

@Klystron: Ah, Light's speed - That old chestnut , that is easily the biggest hurdle any life form would have to overcome and if it happens to result in anything like Event Horizon, count me out!

[GoktimusPrime]

Personally,
I'm of the opinion that no human on Earth could possibly formulate an accurate opinion on what constitutes life or it's environment as even the most intelligent person on the planet really knows absolutely squat on a Universal level and therefore couldn't accurately fathom what another form of life could be comprised of or it's environment.

Have you seen or read Ghost In The Shell? I think you'd like it. It aired on SBS earlier this week. If you haven't seen it I recommend picking it up from a comic store or on DVD. I'd lend you my comic book, but it's in Japanese.

Unfortunately we humans are, at present, condemned to only understand that which is immediately around us and that which has come before - Even the most open of minds is limited by the overwhelming mass of closed minds that populates this planet as it is only something in the vicinity of 5% of the world's population that is actually doing any actual thinking, the other 85% just live off of what the others come up with.

We haven't even fully explored our own planet, let alone space. e.g. the ocean depths still remain a mystery to us - it's not uncommon for people to discover new species. We know so little about species like the giant squid -- most of the specimens we've seen have been juveniles. Sightings of full grown adults have been rare.

They could indeed be studying us but I IMO doubt this because what could they possibly learn from us? - Just by visiting they will of displayed how vastly superior to us they are, so it would be more likely that they'd be visiting a zoo of sorts.

The immense resources and cost required to even travel to Earth from the nearest galaxy would make occasional visits impractical unless they were able to profit from coming here (e.g. conquest, plundering resources etc.).

Imagine if we discovered the existence of an intelligent but primitive alien species in Alpha Centauri -- say with the cognitive level of chimpanzees. Would we bother to spend zillions of dollars to send a mission to study these creatures if there were nothing to gain? If they had something we wanted, like say Unobtainium, then we'd colonise them. If they resisted, we'd happily displace them (or even annihilate them).

[LordCyrusOmega]

I think we as humans we need to re-evaluate what 'life' is. We think of life as appearing in carbon form but that doesn't mean life can evolve from some other base element.

Light speed. Apparantly it can't be done because it violates Einsteins theory of relativity. Nothing can or will move faster then the speed of light.
Black Holes are named because nothing can escape them even light. Yet Hawking Radiation does escape them. If light is the fastest speed in the universe and nothing can move faster then light then where does that leave Hawking Radiation? It moves fast enough to escape a Black Hole and yet Light can not.

[Demonac]

Light speed. Apparantly it can't be done because it violates Einsteins theory of relativity. Nothing can or will move faster then the speed of light.
Black Holes are named because nothing can escape them even light. Yet Hawking Radiation does escape them. If light is the fastest speed in the universe and nothing can move faster then light then where does that leave Hawking Radiation? It moves fast enough to escape a Black Hole and yet Light can not.

I don't think that's how Hawking Radiation works.

[LordCyrusOmega]

I don't think that's how Hawking Radiation works.

The logic works for me. Of course i never did finish Leonard Susskind book "The black hole war". Got as far as The Holographic Principle and couldn't continue.

While Hawking Radiation can be used to describe entropy and black holes it still escapes them while light can not.

[GoktimusPrime]

Light speed. Apparantly it can't be done because it violates Einsteins theory of relativity. Nothing can or will move faster then the speed of light.

Theoretically subatomic particles like tachyons might be able to move faster than the speed of light. That's the theory behind faster than light propulsion systems, like warp drives.

Black Holes are named because nothing can escape them even light. Yet Hawking Radiation does escape them. If light is the fastest speed in the universe and nothing can move faster then light then where does that leave Hawking Radiation? It moves fast enough to escape a Black Hole and yet Light can not.

All forms of electromagnetic radiation (including light) can travel at the speed of light (in a vacuum). That's why in the book Transformers and Philosophy (available now from all good book stores!) and as discussed in the discussion thread about this book, it's more logical that visitation from an alien species would be from a non-biological species; because biological species would be too frail to survive vast travel through space unless:

+ They use suspended animation
+ They fold space (like in Macross/Robotech or Event Horizon) -- the Transwarp Drive technology used in Beast Wars appears to be use some kind of space fold (as we see a kind of 'wormhole' appear.
+ They use faster-than-light propulsion (e.g. warp drive, hyperdrive etc.)

But robotic forms of life like Transformers can easily survive vast travels through space because they're effectively immortal (Transformers, like elves, are long lived and only die if slain). Look at movieverse Megatron -- he flew under his own power from Cybertron to Earth in pursuit of the AllSpark!! As Transformers and Philosophy also points out, an even higher form of life than robotic life would be energy. Beings made from energy themselves - if they exhibited similar properties as electromagnetic radiation or even subatomic particles, move at or beyond the speed of light. The Vok are possibly an example of energy beings; they did say that they have no physical form (hence why they appeared to Optimus Primal in the form of Unicron's head and later made contact through their emissary Tigerhawk). Although Vok transmissions apparently still use some kind of space fold/wormhole thing. <shrug>



...oh, and Drift can also travel beyond the speed of light... just cos ya know... he's Drift.
"That's why I hate science fiction!"

[klystron]

Theoretically subatomic particles like tachyons might be able to move faster than the speed of light. That's the theory behind faster than light propulsion systems, like warp drives.

Depending upon which theory (or theories) you subscribe to will determine whether you think tachyons are likely to be too unstable to exist.
And even if they did, they could probably only be used for the FTL transmission of information, which would lead to violations of the causality principle.
Google the "tachyon telephone paradox."

Nothing moves faster than the speed of light.

[GoktimusPrime]

Nothing moves faster than the speed of light.

'Cept Drift's kicks.

[LordCyrusOmega]

Just because current research denies that nothing moves faster then the speed of light doesn't make it so.
We are using physics and its denominations to measure the physical universe. But no matter how deep we go it will always be from the perspective of humans. We had to invent extra dimensions of space in order to make the math work.
I'm not saying Einstein got it wrong. I'm just saying that given how young (in the scheme of things) physics is that it would be premature to take current theories of gospel as they only work from our perspective.
Just my opinion...I'm wrong again, aren't I?

[Hursticon]

Have you seen or read Ghost In The Shell? I think you'd like it. It aired on SBS earlier this week. If you haven't seen it I recommend picking it up from a comic store or on DVD. I'd lend you my comic book, but it's in Japanese.

Oh yeah man, I've seen that stunning Anime and it's sequel a number of times and I thoroughly love them both.
Much like the scene with The Architect, both OVAs require a couple of sittings to fully digest the amount of philosophy and theory contained within them.

Great, great OVAs and I imagine the Manga would be even better.
(Damn my linguistic ineptitude! )

We haven't even fully explored our own planet, let alone space. e.g. the ocean depths still remain a mystery to us - it's not uncommon for people to discover new species. We know so little about species like the giant squid -- most of the specimens we've seen have been juveniles. Sightings of full grown adults have been rare.

Indeed, I often wonder what things we'd discover if the sorts of money being thrown at outward exploration, were to be thrown at inward investigation.
I love hearing about new specie discoveries as I like the idea that there are still places, above water , that have yet to have a Human in or around it's presence for at least 1000 years.

The immense resources and cost required to even travel to Earth from the nearest galaxy would make occasional visits impractical unless they were able to profit from coming here (e.g. conquest, plundering resources etc.).

I whole heartedly agree Goki, hence why I believe if we were ever to be visited we would most likely never live long enough to know about it.
(The zoo analogy is a rather optimistic view IMO )

Imagine if we discovered the existence of an intelligent but primitive alien species in Alpha Centauri -- say with the cognitive level of chimpanzees. Would we bother to spend zillions of dollars to send a mission to study these creatures if there were nothing to gain? If they had something we wanted, like say Unobtainium, then we'd colonise them. If they resisted, we'd happily displace them (or even annihilate them).

Exactly dude, for our current culture - The only thing that would keep us going back is money or the prospect of it.


We as a species, have an exceedingly long way to go.