Are Gestalts Stupid?

[Verno]

As individual robots they might be quite intelligent, but when merged into their combined forms, IE Predaking, Devastator etc, is the resultant robot a less intelligent creature? If so, why?

I'm looking mainly at the G1 combiners here.

[Paulbot]

It's not always the case, Computron is smarter than the individual robots, and I think it's something that came more from the cartoon, where the combined forms of the bad guys were shown as stupid to make them hulking threats. Like with Trypticon, the bigger the bad guy was, the dumber they seemed to be.

The Autobot Gestalts didn't seem to have the same problem in the cartoon. And in the Tech Specs and Comic the Gestalts of either side were never shown as that stupid as a rule, but there were a few that were.

It kind of makes sense though that if you have five (or six) minds and different personalities trying to control one body, you're going to have trouble. The Powercore Combiners probably are on to a smart thing by having mindless drones to combine with.

[Sky Shadow]

In Western G1 continuity, Defensor is probably the sanest of the robots generally considered to be gestalts. Predaking is also a great meld of his component parts. Computron isn't stupid, but he's just so intelligent that he analyses every move to the tiniest minutia which makes him appear slow and behave slowly. Monstructor has an Intelligence rank of 5, but beyond that he didn't really get much facetime in the 80s. The rest of the main G1 gestalts (Bruticus, Devastator, Menasor, Superion and Piranacon are either dumb or psychologically unstable.)

[UltraMarginal]

I think what Paulbot is saying is the generally accepted rule, the gestalts lose apparent intelligence due to the five minds having to work together.

it's more of a dexterity issue than intelligence, i'm assuming.

I look at it as this, if I were a 100foot tall robot made up of 6 huge construction vehicles that could literally tear an aoutobot base apart with my bare hands, I too would not be able to resist saying "Devastator Smash".

[Thanatos]

I'm assuming because at least from a story-telling perspective, having combiners that had the combined intelligence of the individuals would be for want of a better term, god-like. There would be no need to separate as the combiner would have no disadvantages. By making them stupid, they become a "last ditch effort", whereby the risk is the amount of power vs the unpredictability of the gestalt.

There's also the concept of dissociative identity disorder (formerly classified as multiple personality disorder), where the gestalt is suffering from up to 6 different personalities and intelligences. As such this particular form of identity disorder would result in the gestalt going "crazy" from the multiple voices inside it's head. The main issue I feel is that the fiction always seems to refer to the gestalt as a a separate entity to the individuals rather than a summation of the separate individuals.

This is assuming of course that these robots are similar in any way to the psychology of a human. Personally, I believe that the gestalts should work the same way as computers - that each multiple piece (ie more RAM or more internal memory space) would simply add to the overall picture. That's why I was always a fan of Computron who represents what I'm talking about, however it includes the addendum that because of the separate intelligences, it takes a long time to make a decision, similar to the combiners being stupid after the combination, it gives it a disadvantage, coming back to the basis for the storytelling.

Overall I'd say it's a story telling decision, and since this is a show originally aimed at children, it's safe to say this gave them human traits and human flaws. It also really gives the individual robots a personality, which means that those watching the show don't think "the gestalt is far better than each of the parts, why bother caring about each individual when the combination is far superior".

[Sky Shadow]

I think what Paulbot is saying is the generally accepted rule, the gestalts lose apparent intelligence due to the five minds having to work together.

it's more of a dexterity issue than intelligence, i'm assuming.

It's also a personality thing. The Constructicons are individually opinionated and Devastator is only able to do anything other than "smash" if they actually agree on a course of action. Piranacon's components are too like minded and so he just focuses on a single hunt and ignores everything else. The other four Stunticons hate Motormaster so much that it means Menasor is an emo psychopath. Computron feels the need to analyse everything in a mental summit between his five Technobots and so it takes him minutes to do anything.

[Hursticon]

I agree with everyone so far as to say that really this sort of a question should be looked at with a case by case basis.
The Techspecs did a monumentally better job of defining each Component personality and subsequent Gestalt personailty, but the cartoon only seemed to use these as a canvas to paint a diminished, debatedly handicapped and child-friendly portrait of the subjects in question.

I'd be curious to see what the proper personalities of Tripredcus and Magnaboss would be like, especially Magnaboss seeming as he is supposedly the combination of G1 Ironhide, Silverbolt and Prowl in upgraded, Maximal forms!

[GoktimusPrime]

As Sky Shadow said, it boils down to the personalities of the individual gestalt members and also how their personalities interact with each other. One interesting feature that the Micromaster tech specs had was ratings for "Teamwork" and "Cooperation." Gestalt teams who have higher degrees of teamwork and cooperation combine to form more psychologically and emotionally stable gestalt robots (e.g. Protectobots, Predacons), whereas those with poor teamwork and cooperation combine to form mentally unstable psychopaths (e.g. Constructicons, Stunticons).

I wouldn't say that Predaking is necessarily stupid -- he's no Rhodes scholar, but I wouldn't say he's an imbecile either. The tech specs basically describes him as the perfect fighter who moves with feral animal-like ferocity and precision. One would imagine that watching Predaking in action would be like watching a massive predator like say a Great White... moving with surprising speed and savagery that belies his immense size. Each individual Predacon may be incredible fighters in their own right, but when combined they become an incredible fighting force to be reckoned with... it's like making a giant boxer by combining Bruce Lee, Mohammed Ali, Chuck Norris, Alexander the Great, and King Leonidas... phwoar!

[Quickstrike]

especially Magnaboss seeming as he is supposedly the combination of G1 Ironhide, Silverbolt and Prowl in upgraded, Maximal forms!

Man I hate IDW's Beast Wars stuff.

[Verno]

I'd be curious to see what the proper personalities of Tripredcus and Magnaboss would be like, especially Magnaboss seeming as he is supposedly the combination of G1 Ironhide, Silverbolt and Prowl in upgraded, Maximal forms!

Indeed. What does the advance in technology play in the combination of processing power and such in 'newer' gestalts.

Magmatron is the obvious exception. One mind controlling 3 forms through his Miotic spark.