Overrated Transformer Toys

[GoktimusPrime]

Being an "Overrated Transformers Toys" thread, I was referring to the toys. I don't mind the G1 media.

They are overrated because they just don't hold up anymore. There are minicons from Armada that have more articulation than a G1 figure.
Most don't even have knees or elbows. They just don't cut it.

Yeah but you gotta look at it in the context of the time. By 1984 standards, toys like Jazz and Soundwave were freakin' amazing! Don't tell me that at the time, you looked at these toys and though, "Meh... these suck."

They may be dated now - I'd agree with that, but by the standards of the day, they were really well made IMHO.

I know they are old (+25 years) but a lot of the Beast Wars stuff still holds it's own, even by today standards, and that was 15 odd years ago.

The difference between G1 and Beast Wars toys is so much more than the difference between Beast Wars and something like Generations and the gap just isn't as wide.

Yes but that's because the engineering in Beast Wars had progressed a lot since G1. Late G2 saw a lot of new and innovative engineering techniques coming into play, such as fully articulated robot modes - and Beast Wars picked that ball up and ran with it. So it doesn't surprise me that these toys can still hold up because a lot of the engineering techniques that are used in Transformers toys today, was born in late G2 and Beast Wars anyway! You can think of it as a significant turning point in TF engineering -- but G1 came before that major kilometrestone.

There is just so much hype placed on G1 figures and they are just a let down.

The only thing I like about the 1 G1 figure I have is that it is diecast. But that pretty much helps it be a paperweight.......

That's because some people are looking at it from rose-tinted childhood nostalgia glasses where some of them think anything "old school" is automatically better than everything new ("Trukk Not Munky") -- and I don't agree with that. Transformers today ARE handsdown better than G1 for sure - as they bloody well should be. Die-cast... it's a bit overrated and overdone, but ya know, die-cast does make the vehicle modes look pretty sweet (this is particularly evident on Binaltech). But that comes from a Gee-Wun perspective, because die-cast was phased out in 1986; so from 1987-1993, a significant chunk of G1, toys were principally plastic.

Also you have to look at the cost of G1 figures these days. When I started collecting again I bought a couple of G1 figures and was very disappointed with what I got for what I paid. Yeah I had toys of some of my favourite characters but I still felt ripped off. That's why I was so glad when classics etc came out. As a rule of thumb I find them a more articulated better representation of some of my favorite characters.

Yeah, I definitely don't think it's worth collecting G1 now. Classicsverse definitely gives you more bang for your buck!

[Golden Phoenix]

Yeah but you gotta look at it in the context of the time. By 1984 standards, toys like Jazz and Soundwave were freakin' amazing! Don't tell me that at the time, you looked at these toys and though, "Meh... these suck."

Well considering I wasn't around until 1988 I really couldn't tell you a thing.

Yes but that's because the engineering in Beast Wars had progressed a lot since G1. Late G2 saw a lot of new and innovative engineering techniques coming into play, such as fully articulated robot modes - and Beast Wars picked that ball up and ran with it. So it doesn't surprise me that these toys can still hold up because a lot of the engineering techniques that are used in Transformers toys today, was born in late G2 and Beast Wars anyway! You can think of it as a significant turning point in TF engineering -- but G1 came before that major kilometrestone.

But in the last 11-15 years engineering and manufacturing techniques have advanced, and probably at a faster rate than before. Certainly it hasn't stopped or gone backwards.
Even with all the advancements a Beast Wars figure can still be compaired to a Generations or movie figure. Hell, pick out a couple of Crossover figures and you could say the Beast Wars was better. You can't compair G1 to anything and get a positive outcome (unless you pick out the worst figure from something like Armada)

And that was my point. 10-12 years after the initial figures, the toys were so much better or advanced, the older ones (G1) didn't compair. 10-12 years after those toys, they were better again, but the older ones (now Beast Wars) still held their own.

I don't think in another 10 years that we will look at the Beast Wars figures like we look at G1 figures today. They won't be as good at the figures that might be release in 2020, but unless there is some huge advancement like actual robotics or actual onscreen like movie transformations, I don't think we will be making the same excuses we make for G1 toys. Doubt you'll hear "by '96 standards they are awesome"

That's because some people are looking at it from rose-tinted childhood nostalgia glasses where some of them think anything "old school" is automatically better than everything new ("Trukk Not Munky") -- and I don't agree with that. Transformers today ARE handsdown better than G1 for sure - as they bloody well should be.

This was initially why I started to think G1 was overrated. And it also makes it really simple to show it is rated higher than it should be.
Nostalgia increases its rating. You take that away, and they are not as good as what they are made out to be.
So they are overrated.

[1orion2many]

I myself am a Beast Wars fan but I don't consider G1 over rated. Compare an old 1957 Chevy to a new Chevy, the new car is superior in everyway in it's technology and safety but I don't consider the 57 chevy over rated and I know which one I'd prefer to be seen in. I know the old G1's are more like blocks but at the time they were superior to any other transforming toys, I know there was far better articulated toys at the time but I can't think of any offhand that transformed from vehicle to robot without having to pull the item apart and put it back together. G1 set the bench mark, Hasbro & Tak have in general only improved from there, if the bench mark was really low in the mid 80's 2 things may have happened, we may now only be getting decently articulated TF's instead of the BW Era bringing it in or 2 they would have flopped and TF's would have been no more as was demonstrated when they tried G2 which almost wiped out Transformers(as far as I was concerned it did, ugly looking things shelf warming).

[1orion2many]

Almost forgot, I'd consider the recent recolour of Armada Unicron over rated. I just couldn't see the justification in forking out all that money when I honestly couldn't see that much difference. I did end up getting hold of an Energon Unicron MISB at what I considered a good price from one of our members because they wanted the new one so I can't complain and yes I know that's just a recolour as well but so much prettier

[Hursticon]

Almost forgot, I'd consider the recent recolour of Armada Unicron over rated. I just couldn't see the justification in forking out all that money when I honestly couldn't see that much difference. I did end up getting hold of an Energon Unicron MISB at what I considered a good price from one of our members because they wanted the new one so I can't complain and yes I know that's just a recolour as well but so much prettier

Hell Yeah! - Black-Metal Unicron!

[GoktimusPrime]

Well considering I wasn't around until 1988 I really couldn't tell you a thing.

In that case I imagine that you must have grown up with G2 and Beast Wars -- toys with fully articulated robot modes and other improved aspects of toy design and engineering that wasn't around during G1 and early G2. You have the advantage of looking back at G1 with retrospective hindsight, which of course those of us growing up with G1 during the 1980s and early 1990s didn't have.

For example, toys like the original 30cm G.I. Joe, Henshin Cyborg and Micronauts, Mego etc. all came out before my time, and to me those toys look quite dated - but I can appreciate and understand that they were cool for their time and that they did help to shape what action figures are today.

But in the last 11-15 years engineering and manufacturing techniques have advanced, and probably at a faster rate than before. Certainly it hasn't stopped or gone backwards.
Even with all the advancements a Beast Wars figure can still be compaired to a Generations or movie figure. Hell, pick out a couple of Crossover figures and you could say the Beast Wars was better. You can't compair G1 to anything and get a positive outcome (unless you pick out the worst figure from something like Armada)

And that was my point. 10-12 years after the initial figures, the toys were so much better or advanced, the older ones (G1) didn't compair. 10-12 years after those toys, they were better again, but the older ones (now Beast Wars) still held their own.

I don't think in another 10 years that we will look at the Beast Wars figures like we look at G1 figures today. They won't be as good at the figures that might be release in 2020, but unless there is some huge advancement like actual robotics or actual onscreen like movie transformations, I don't think we will be making the same excuses we make for G1 toys. Doubt you'll hear "by '96 standards they are awesome"

But as I said before, the mid 1990s (late G2) was a significant turning point in Transformers design history. It was a major kilometrestone which forever redefined how Transformers would be created. It's true that late G2 and Beast Wars did set a new benchmark; a new standard which is still used holds up today (and is a massive compliment to HasTak designers of the time). But that's what happens when you have major turning points in history that (e.g. writing, the atomic bomb etc.).

Up till 1994/5, it was an impressive enough feat to have toys that could transform from a vehicle or device into a robot. It was a really novel idea that offered play value on multiple levels - you had one toy that could be a vehicle or a robot, and there was some level of "puzzle" play. I know that G1 toys are really simple by today's standards, but some of the TF toys captured our imaginations with their transformations at the time. Like Soundwave and the way his weapons ingeniously becomes his batteries in walkman mode. By the end of G2, HasTak gave us fully articulated robot modes. Beast Wars improved on that and gave us better durability, more detailed sculpting and paint apps etc. - the idea of using stickers to add detail became laughable.

So after such a big leap forward at the time, Transformers engineering just "normalised" again. That's why Classicsverse toys based on Beast Wars don't interest me - because as you said, the original BW toys still hold up well by current standards.

But cost is another thing to take into account. I've been playing around with Generations Warpath this weekend, and he's superior to G1 Warpath in many ways -- but Generations Warpath cost me $30, whereas G1 Warpath cost me $1.99 (I can say this because we still had 1c coins at the time! ). In terms of value for money and even taking inflation into account, I think G1 Warpath is still pretty decent.

This was initially why I started to think G1 was overrated. And it also makes it really simple to show it is rated higher than it should be.
Nostalgia increases its rating. You take that away, and they are not as good as what they are made out to be.
So they are overrated.

I agree that nostalgia does boost the ratings of many G1 toys. But I don't look at G1 from a nostalgic POV because I've never been "out" of Transformers. Nostalgia I think tends to come from people who were into Transformers during G1, then took a considerable amount of "time off" when they lost interest in Transformers, then for whatever reason changed their minds and decided that the Transformer that they once completely lost interest in are suddenly cool again. Don't ask me why... it's never happened to me.

So when I look at G1, I look at it as how they were at the time they were out - not retrospectively comparing it with today's toys, cos that's an unfair comparison, but also not judging it from my G1 nostalgia, cos - for lack of better words - G1's never left me.

[bowspearer]

Almost forgot, I'd consider the recent recolour of Armada Unicron over rated. I just couldn't see the justification in forking out all that money when I honestly couldn't see that much difference. I did end up getting hold of an Energon Unicron MISB at what I considered a good price from one of our members because they wanted the new one so I can't complain and yes I know that's just a recolour as well but so much prettier

I dunno, maybe it's because I missed the Armada Unicron. Maybe it's because it was the first TF I got for Christmas in ages at the time, but I actually really like the EN version on Unicron. Sure he's the most inaccurate of the colour schemes, but considering the colour scheme, I actually love the originality of it.

TBH, it honestly looks to me like the Borg travelled through a rift and assimilated him- either that or he was assimilated in the Star Trek Universe.

That and the idea of a deep booming, disjointed Unicron voice booming "I AM UNICRON! RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!" seems like it'd really be cool

As for what I find overrated (and it comes down to owning the fully functional versions and so I'm very aware of the butcheries); Blaster, and the Medium and Large Machine Wars toys are right up there. For all the colour scheme improvements, the toys have been thoroughly gutted.

It's hard to figure out who fares the worst. Optimus Prime gets out of it with the least butchering, as despite his nerfed missile launchers, the missile bays being left empty does work stylistically.

After that it's kind of a tie. Sandstorm only has his launchers gutted, but they didn't even bother recasting the guns, so there are holes in the guns that make it completely noticable how gutted the weapons are- along the noticably empty missile hardpoints. Soundwave winds up with no weapon at all and a gutted supersight function.

Starscream is worse- gutted supersight, no weapon, and gutted bombing reticle.

The worst offender of all though would be Blaster. Compared to the Microchange version; all the electronics were gutted, all moving switches solidly hard cast and the earpiece removed from the gun while leaving noticable holes where it combines (in the case of one of them, gaping) on the gun.

These guys go to prove that when it comes to TFs, there are reissues, recolours, retools, and eviscerations......

[liegeprime]

Almost forgot, I'd consider the recent recolour of Armada Unicron over rated. I just couldn't see the justification in forking out all that money when I honestly couldn't see that much difference. I did end up getting hold of an Energon Unicron MISB at what I considered a good price from one of our members because they wanted the new one so I can't complain and yes I know that's just a recolour as well but so much prettier

I agree that the Energon Version of Unicron is much better. I had the chance when I bought the figure to get either the Armada or the Energon version but was more drawn to the dark color scheme of the Energon Version. Even with the release of the more movie accurate color scheme (and altered head) i still prefer this "dark god" version... more sinister and evil looking than a bright orange robot with a mustache.

[5FDP]

I did end up getting hold of an Energon Unicron MISB at what I considered a good price from one of our members because they wanted the new one so I can't complain

He sounds like an awesome guy