Vector Sigma / Transmetal Driver

[GoktimusPrime]

The thing about 7 Primes and 6 Non-Prime Original Transformers isn't explicitly mentioned in movie continuity, but it's a logical conclusion considering that:
+ Revenge of the Fallen continuity states that in the beginning, the AllSpark created 7 Primes. No other Transformers are mentioned as being created at the time (although it doesn't explicitly disclude them either).
+ The Original 13 Transformers are a multiversal singularity - thus the original 13 Transformers must exist in every Transformers universe.
+ Movie continuity has established that being a Prime is some kind of genetic heritage - i.e. only Transformers who are descendant from one of the original 7 Primes is a Prime; and bear the mark of the Prime somewhere on their body. Sentinel and Optimus are both from the lineage of the Primes.
+ Clearly not all Transformers are descendant of the Primes. In ROTF Optimus was supposedly the last of the Primes (after Sentinel Prime was presumed KIA) -- The Fallen claimed that only another Prime could threaten him and once Optimus was killed, he happily came to Earth, even though there were other Autobots present there. Clearly he didn't feel threatened by the other Autobots, presumably because they're not descendants of the Primes -- and presumably neither are any of the Decepticons, for if they were, The Fallen would probably have them killed too to eliminate them as potential threats to him.
+ In the movieverse comics, Megatron criticises the nepotism of having only Primes being their leaders. He sees himself as a more worthy successor to Sentinel Prime, even though he himself is not of the Prime dynasty.

Perhaps in your fanfic you could establish that each Prime is only able to reproduce once, whereas non-Prime Transformers have a higher "fertility rate"... because this would explain how in the beginning there were 7 Primes to 6 non-Primes, but then later on the number of Primes within the Cybertronian population became near extinct. If Primus intended for the Primes to be leaders, then it would stand to reason that he would limit their reproductive abilities in order to maintain balance amongst the Cybertronians.

But really, this is all looking at it purely from the movie-continuity POV. In all other Transformer universes being a Prime was never a genetic thing -- so if you're writing your thing to graft into the G1, G2 and BW continuity-family, I see no reason to even consider including any elements from the movie universe into it anyway.

13 Original Transformers = multiversal singularity, so you have to include it.
7 Original Primes = only in the movie universe. So feel free to ignore it if you want.

[Hursticon]

Excellent, all great food for thought dude and again, much appreciated.
I like certain elements of the Movieverse, but agree that not all of the original 13 should be Primes.
If all 13 were Primes there would be no room for 'dilution' of the Gene pool, as it were, subsequently no room for non-Prime Cybertronians so this is an excellent fix.

My intention was indeed to limit everyone of the original Cybertronians to a single offspring via Budding, sort of a 1 child policy if you will, as a method of population control (Primus' Will).

It seems to me that whilst there would be descendants of the Primes that would slowly be watered down, it would be these Cybertronians 'of Noble descent' that would fill the 'Ranking or Controlling Casts' with the descendants of the non-Prime originals filling all the other roles - The workers.
Non-Prime descendants could enter nobility by being an offsping of Prime and Non-Prime parents of the Budding Process but also take into account Optimus-

Let's say that as Orion Pax, he was a watered down descendant of a Prime but after his Infusion Reformatting with A3's CNA, this brought him WAY back towards being a full-blown Prime and could help to explain why he becomes such the revered leader he does?

This could also work towards Megatron's disdain for the hereditary rule of the Primes because whilst he believes that just because your of Prime descent, it doesn't mean you'll be an effective leader but deep-deep down he questions this because Optimus is displaying that he is a living example of the opposite.

See? - All great reasons as to why your 7 Primes, 6 Originals suggestion works so well.

[GoktimusPrime]

Non-Prime descendants could enter nobility by being an offsping of Prime and Non-Prime parents of the Budding Process

The Budding Process is strictly asexual - so all the genetic data contained in the offspring comes from a single parent. So if there is a Prime descendancy, then a descendant of a Prime would be a "pureblood" Prime. There's no "halfbloods" when dealing with an asexually reproductive species. Or if there were, it wouldn't be because of budding.

This could also work towards Megatron's disdain for the hereditary rule of the Primes because whilst he believes that just because your of Prime descent, it doesn't mean you'll be an effective leader but deep-deep down he questions this because Optimus is displaying that he is a living example of the opposite.

Yeah, that's pretty much what Megatron says in the movie-verse comics (current DotM prequel stuff).

"You don't vote for kings!"
Monty Python and the Holy Grail

[Hursticon]

You know what?, I can't believe I over-looker that fact about A-Sexual reproduction... More pondering required me thinks.

Ah, good old Python...
I've not read any of the Movie-verse material so to hear that works out nicely, cheers dude.

[Verno]

• An exploration ship from the Cybertronain Empire, under orders from the Liege Maximo to scout for new world to technoform into part of the Hub, is damaged by a meteor stike and left listing in space. It is rescued by an alien on a strange, mechanical world.
  
• The Predacons, under Razorclaw, splinter from the Decepticon Army completely and go their own way in the battle for Energon and Cybertron.
• The Autobots respond by creating their own subgroup to tackle this new enemy, the Maximals.
  
• The events in Simon Furman's Alignment occur (The Autobots and Decepticons band together to tackle the Liege Maximo and his Cybertronian Empire at The Hub and are ultimately victorious)
  
• The Decepticons, under Soundwave (as Megatron is now dead) surrender. This doesn't please some Decepticons who leave and join the swelling ranks of the Predacons.
  
• The Predacons gain much power and territory and turn to make a final attack on Cybertron where they have some underground bases already established.
  
• The Cybertronain Empire crew that were rescued by the alien on the strange mechanical world are tortured and reformatted by a conciousness within the planet. Only 4 of them are still alive. The alien is being blackmailed into contructing the consiousness a body the size of a planet.
  
• The alien sacrifices himself to save the Cybertronians from Unicron (the consiousness) and they escape in a ship to return to the Hub.
  
• They find the Hub destroyed and track the energy signatures back to where they came from.
  
• Unicron tracks the signature of the ship back to the Hub, where it begins to devour all the debris of The Hub, and power up himself fully.
  
• The 4 Cybertronians find Cybertron and join the Predacon ranks, and begin to work their way up the corporate ladder. Their names: Sea Clamp, Ram Horn and Cicadacon and their offsider, Taranachus.
  
• The Autobot/Maximal Scientist Csirac and his team (including a young Rhinox) develop Transwarp technology in its earliest form.
  
• The Tripredacus Brotherhood prove themselves worthy in battle and orchestrate the death of Razorclaw to assume command of the Predacons.
  
• A Transwarp ship is tested in Cybertron's orbit to show the Predacons that if they don't surrender they will be wiped from History all together with the use of TransWarp technology.
  
• The ship fails and explodes in orbit, raining debris down upon Cybertron. The Predacons get their hands on some of the debris and turn it over to their head Scientist, Taranachus (Tarantulas) who implores the Tripredacus Council to kidnap the Maximal Scientist and get all the information about TransWarp technology from him.
  
• The Predacons kidnap Csirac, as well as the Aerialbot Leader Silverbolt, whose brethren have been killed earlier, but has been a high ranking member of the Autobot/Maximal leadership.
  
• The intention is to plant in him a Shell Program to turn him into a Predacon and act as a spy for them.
  
• Csirac was developing TransWarp technology as well as new Mini-Bot technology, the early stages of protoform technology.
  
• Csirac's fembot partner was onboard the ship that exploded when testing the TransWarp drive, and the Predacons convince him that the Maximals would have pulled the plug on his project, so the only way to save his partner is to continue his research under their watchful eye and see the project through.
  
• Rhinox implores the Autobot/Maximal leadership to search for Csirac but he is told they have bigger problems.
  
• Magmatron, a Predacon General, is damaged in battle. He is brought back to the Predacon installation and Csirac is made to help him. Csirac informs him that his spark is fine but his body can no longer support the spark.
  
• Csirac, under orders from the Tripredacus Brotherhood, has been developing a new more powerful body for them. Magmatron instructs Csirac to put his spark into the body. Csirac informs him it needs 3 sparks to pilot it, putting his spark in it could extinguish it.
  
• Magmatron threatens him some more and tells him to do it anyway. Csirac does, but the body lies there, motionless. He assumes it has failed and returns to his work.
  
• The Predacon installation comes under Autobot/Maximal attack. Csirac is injured as Magmatron awakens, his spark was powerful enough to survive being pulled into 3 bodies, his is now a mitotic. He joins the battle and the Predacons seem to have the upper hand.
  
• The shell program Taranachus was working on for Silverbolt has failed, and his injured body is dumped in with Csirac as the battle rages above.
  
• Csirac is haunted by the voice of his dead fembot partner.
  
• The voice in Csirac's head instructs him not to save her from the All Spark, but save Silverbolt, and help the Maximals to victory.
  
• He has been working on a machine that he can pilot to the All Spark to find a particular spark and return it to a body.
  
• With the development of another new body for the Tripredacus council, Csirac, in his last efforts of life, pilots the machine and returns 2 sparks.
  
• He installs the sparks, as well as that of Silverbolt, into the new combiner body.
  
• Magnaboss is born, as Ironhide and Prowl return from the All Spark into the new form. They join the battle.
  
• The Autobots/Maximals defeat the Predacons (or did they) and the Predacons, under the Tripredacus Council, sign the Pax Cbertronia.
  
• The Tripredacus Brotherhood, rename themselves the Tripredacus Council, simply surrendered to give themselves time to plot their own plots without the hassle of wasting resourses fighting a futile war. They begin to develop their own TransWarp technology from what they have stolen etc.
  
• Peace.
  
• The upgrade to protoform technology and retiring of the titles Autobot and Decepticon.
  
• Heavy sanctions placed on the Predacons. This outrages the Predacons on the street who are treated as 2nd class citizens, but the Tripredacus Council couldn't care less.
  
• Magmatron seeths and plots his own plots.
  
• 300 years pass.
  
• A young genius upstart, who was a Predacon analyst on the development of TransWarp stuff, gathers a crew, steals the Golden Disk and a ship and makes for Earth.
  
• The Beast Wars.
  
• The Vok become aware of the Maximals and Predacons and of Cybertron.
  
• Tarantulas, with the Vok inside him, is killed and his Spark rejoins the All Spark.
  
• The Vok piggy-back back to the All Spark.
  
• The Maximals win the Beast Wars.
  
• They return to Cybertron in the Autobot shuttle.
  
• Unicron approaches Cybertron and unleashes his armada of reanimated Cybertronain Empire warriors on Caybertron before plunging his horns into Cybertrons surface.
  
• The Vok arrive on the astral plane to see Primus and Unicron battling.
  
• Unicron kills Primus.
  
• The Vok take up Primus' helm and defeats Unicron, thus taking both their places as both the Lord of Light and the Lord of Darkness.
  
• The change in power at the top unleashes an energy from deep within Cybertron and reformats the entore world and all those on it.
  
• TransTech.

[GoktimusPrime]

I like how you gave new names for pre-Earth Tarantulas and Rhinox.

So points regarding your ideas in relation with official canon:

[LIST][*]The Predacons, under Razorclaw, splinter from the Decepticon Army completely and go their own way in the battle for Energon and Cybertron.
[*]The Decepticons, under Soundwave (as Megatron is now dead) surrender. This doesn't please some Decepticons who leave and join the swelling ranks of the Predacons.
[*]The Predacons gain much power and territory and turn to make a final attack on Cybertron where they have some underground bases already established.

The Decepticons were supposedly leaderless at the end of the war, and the Predacons took the initiative to lead the Decepticons into signing the Pax Cybertronia. However, their policy was one of unconditional surrender to the Autobots, with the secret plan of rebuilding their forces to one day usurp the Autobots in the future - this would become the Predacon cause by the time of the Beast Wars.

[*]The Autobots respond by creating their own subgroup to tackle this new enemy, the Maximals.

The "Maximals" was the name of the 'Maximal Upgrade' - the next step from Micromaster technology. In G1 Anglophone continuity, Micromasters were created as a means of conserving fuel by downsizing the Transformers. In Beast Wars it is stated that the BW TFs are smaller and more fuel-efficient than the larger G1 Transformers. This is why in "The Agenda Part 3" when Megatron first enters the Ark and views the G1 Transformers lying in stasis, he calls them "Archaic Energon guzzlers!"

Rodimus became downsized by the end of the Great War, which makes sense because there was a Micromaster Hot Rod toy in G1 (came with Star Convoy) - and in during the time of Beast Machines when Rodimus is leading the new Wreckers, he is the same size as Maximals and Predacons; thus presumably Micromaster sized.

While it's never been explicitly stated that Micromaster technology led to the Maximal Upgrade, when you think about it, it makes sense. The G1 Transformers were already heading toward downsizing themselves to conserve fuel anyway... seems logical that they would legislate it as a standard requirement in post-war Cybertron.

[*]The Cybertronain Empire crew that were rescued by the alien on the strange mechanical world are tortured and reformatted by a conciousness within the planet. Only 4 of them are still alive. The alien is being blackmailed into contructing the consiousness a body the size of a planet.
[*]The alien sacrifices himself to save the Cybertronians from Unicron (the consiousness) and they escape in a ship to return to the Hub.
[*]They find the Hub destroyed and track the energy signatures back to where they came from.
[*] Unicron tracks the signature of the ship back to the Hub, where it begins to devour all the debris of The Hub, and power up himself fully.
[*] The 4 Cybertronians find Cybertron and join the Predacon ranks, and begin to work their way up the corporate ladder. Their names: Sea Clamp, Ram Horn and Cicadacon and their offsider, Taranachus.

Interesting.

Be aware by the time of the Beast Wars, Unicron has been physically destroyed -- presumably since G1. He only exists in spiritual form known as Dark Essence or Angolmois Energy. When Unicron destroys the Maximal Armada, he is still in spirit form, albeit fully powered by his Angolmois Energy (and using BW Galvatron as a vessel) -- then he possesses Vector Sigma and begins reconstructing Cybertron as his new body. All this would be needless if he already had a reconstructed body as you've suggested. So I don't know if you really want to keep the story of him having a new body, otherwise you'll need to find a way to have that body destroyed. But one would assume that if the BW TFs had recently destroyed Unicron, they would be more aware about the nature of Dark Essence and Angolmois Energy than they already were...

Also, other agents of Unicron include the Blentrons, Shokoract, Antagony and Cataclysm.

Also, Tripredacus was never made from Cybertronians. Neither was Tarantulas. That's why Tarantulas was willing to destroy the Ark and kill all the Autobots and Decepticons inside them, wiping out the existence of Maximals and Predacons. When asked about this supposedly suicidal plan, Tarantulas boasted that it would only effect Transformers "descendant from Autobots and Decepticons" and that he and the Tripredacus Council have "different origins" (and thus were immune to being uncreated at the destruction of the Ark).

[*]The Autobot/Maximal Scientist Csirac and his team (including a young Rhinox) develop Transwarp technology in its earliest form.

Early Transwarp technology was already underway during G1. This is stated in G1 Megatron's message encrypted in the Sounds of Earth golden disk from Voyager II. Transwarp technology was still in its infancy during G1 Megatron's time, hence he left a message for future descendants to use it to change destiny once it was perfected to ensure Decepticon victory.

Nothing wrong with having Maximal scientists working on and maybe perfecting Transwarp drive tech, but it would definitely not be in its early stages and more likely approaching its final stages. Maybe it could be like the Star Wars prequels were individual one-man starfighters needed to hook up to a hyperdrive ring to jump because the technology wasn't compact enough to fit inside the fighter -- so maybe they weren't able to make the technology small enough to put inside a ship so they need to hook up to an external Transwarp Drive ... thing. Or maybe it could be like in Transformers Animated where they have to have constructed Space Bridges and they can only transwarp between established Bridge points (whereas in Beast Wars they can transwarp into anywhere - like when Depth Charge warped out into a Quantum Wave ).

[*]The Tripredacus Brotherhood prove themselves worthy in battle and orchestrate the death of Razorclaw to assume command of the Predacons.

This would go against the "unconditional surrender" of the Predacons -- but I do like the idea of them usurping Razorclaw. Maybe the Tripredacus Generals came in as Decepticons much earlier on - say after the events of Transformers Zone when Dai Atlas killed Predaking (and Razorclaw most likely didn't survive) -- the other Predacons would have been leaderless, and then the three Tripredacus dudes came into to bolster their depleted ranks; replacing their one fallen Predacon with 3 new ones. The Predacons were probably so relieved that they didn't think to question where they came from -- and then later during the Autobot-Decepticon war they could prove themselves worthy, gaining the trust of the Decepticons, and then orchestrate the assassination of Megatron, leaving the Decepticons leaderless and in a vulnerable position to be conquered by the Autobots.

After all, it seems that the Tripredacus Generals' objective isn't really to help the Decepticons or Predacons win, but to keep the Transformers disunified and unable to unite against Unicron's impending attack. Perhaps Ravage could be one Decepticon who trusts them utterly, and you could have the Tripredacus Generals frame an Autobot (or maybe another Decepticon!) as Megatron's assassin. This would ensure Ravage's loyalty to them as the Tripredacus Agent with no knowledge of the true nature of his new masters.

[*]A Transwarp ship is tested in Cybertron's orbit to show the Predacons that if they don't surrender they will be wiped from History all together with the use of TransWarp technology.
[*]The ship fails and explodes in orbit, raining debris down upon Cybertron. The Predacons get their hands on some of the debris and turn it over to their head Scientist, Taranachus (Tarantulas) who implores the Tripredacus Council to kidnap the Maximal Scientist and get all the information about TransWarp technology from him.
[*]The Predacons kidnap Csirac, as well as the Aerialbot Leader Silverbolt, whose brethren have been killed earlier, but has been a high ranking member of the Autobot/Maximal leadership.
[*]The intention is to plant in him a Shell Program to turn him into a Predacon and act as a spy for them.
[*]Csirac was developing TransWarp technology as well as new Mini-Bot technology, the early stages of protoform technology.
[*]Csirac's fembot partner was onboard the ship that exploded when testing the TransWarp drive, and the Predacons convince him that the Maximals would have pulled the plug on his project, so the only way to save his partner is to continue his research under their watchful eye and see the project through.
[*]Rhinox implores the Autobot/Maximal leadership to search for Csirac but he is told they have bigger problems.

There's no need for Tripredacus to kidnap Tarantulas because he's also a spawn of Unicron not originally of Cybertronian creation. And him having a partner would be against his character who's just twisted and evil to the core. Perhaps you could transplant that story idea to Depth Charge - because we know that Depth Charge was once an ideal heroic Maximal (as Optimus Primal described him) who became all bitter and full off rage of Protoform X killed (ate!!) everyone he cared for. How much more awful would it be if he'd consumed Depth Charge's beloved...

I do like the idea of the Autobots using Transwarp drive to beat the Decepticons into submission though. The Pax Cybertronia is named after the Pax Brittania, which was the policy used by the British Empire to force other countries into submission in what was called "Gunboat Diplomacy." Rather nasty. I'd like to see the so-called "heroic" Autobots using questionable means to assure victory.

[*]Magmatron, a Predacon General, is damaged in battle. He is brought back to the Predacon installation and Csirac is made to help him. Csirac informs him that his spark is fine but his body can no longer support the spark.
[*]Csirac, under orders from the Tripredacus Brotherhood, has been developing a new more powerful body for them. Magmatron instructs Csirac to put his spark into the body. Csirac informs him it needs 3 sparks to pilot it, putting his spark in it could extinguish it.
[*]Magmatron threatens him some more and tells him to do it anyway. Csirac does, but the body lies there, motionless. He assumes it has failed and returns to his work.
[*]The Predacon installation comes under Autobot/Maximal attack. Csirac is injured as Magmatron awakens, his spark was powerful enough to survive being pulled into 3 bodies, his is now a mitotic. He joins the battle and the Predacons seem to have the upper hand.

I like this.

[*]He installs the sparks, as well as that of Silverbolt, into the new combiner body.
[*]Magnaboss is born, as Ironhide and Prowl return from the All Spark into the new form. They join the battle.

Silverbolt, Prowl and Ironhide were all rebuilt during G1 during the Earthforce Saga (which was Hasbro's push to promote the Classics Reissues in 1990-91). They survived the battle of Unicron and were even seen in G2.

Perhaps you could have Fireflight and Air Raid killed, and Slingshot and Sky Shadow reformatted as Decepticons in an early version of the Predacon Shell Program (this would explain why there are Predacons with their names in Beast Wars -- "Sling" (the dimetrodon) is the Japanese name for G1 Slingshot). So having lost his fellow Aerialbots, Prowl and Ironhide are reconstructed as gestalt members to combine with him to form Magnaboss.

[*]The Autobots/Maximals defeat the Predacons (or did they) and the Predacons, under the Tripredacus Council, sign the Pax Cbertronia.

I reckon Springer and the Wreckers would be instrumental in this, as mentioned in the BotCon comics.

[*]Heavy sanctions placed on the Predacons. This outrages the Predacons on the street who are treated as 2nd class citizens, but the Tripredacus Council couldn't care less.

This is good - but I think it should be, the Tripredacus Council pretends to care, and takes a lot of ineffectual action which doesn't really help the Predacons. The Tripredacus Council has always maintained a guise of working in the interests of the Predacon cause.

They keep making hollow promises to their people which they never properly fulfill. In other words, they're really good politicians!

[*]Magmatron seeths and plots his own plots.

As well as Megatron and Galvatron... various groups of malcontent groups form within the Predacons against the corruption of Tripredacus, but perhaps the iron grip of the Tripredacus makes them all too paranoid to make contact with each other -- much like in the current V series with the Fifth Column and other anti-Visitor resistance fighters operating independently of each other.

[*]300 years pass.
[*]A young genius upstart, who was a Predacon analyst on the development of TransWarp stuff, gathers a crew, steals the Golden Disk and a ship and makes for Earth.
[*]The Beast Wars.

Nice!

[*]The Vok become aware of the Maximals and Predacons and of Cybertron.

I think the Vok were always aware -- they just didn't know that some of them had travelled back in time and 'contaminated' their experiments.

[*]Tarantulas, with the Vok inside him, is killed and his Spark rejoins the All Spark.
[*] The Vok piggy-back back to the All Spark.

1: Tarantulas doesn't have a Spark that can return to the All Spark since he's of non-Cybertronian origin
2: After the Beast Wars ended, Tarantulas was ressurected in a blasphemous state of undeath because of the Vok power his body had absorbed at the moment of destruction (Undead Tarantulas = FoxKids! silver repaint of Transmetal Tarantulas). He rebuilt Ravage as Tripredacus Agent and began constructing new troops Razorclaw and Iguanus. The Vok responded to this threat by constructing Primal Prime (using the power of Optimus Prime's Matrix) and ressurected Tigatron and Airazor (as Transmetals).
Undead Tarantulas rips the Autobot Matrix out of Primal Prime's body
Tarantulas inside Unicron (Transformers Universe: events taking place after BM)

[*]Unicron approaches Cybertron and unleashes his armada of reanimated Cybertronain Empire warriors on Caybertron before plunging his horns into Cybertrons surface.
[*]The Vok arrive on the astral plane to see Primus and Unicron battling.
[*]Unicron kills Primus.
[*]The Vok take up Primus' helm and defeats Unicron, thus taking both their places as both the Lord of Light and the Lord of Darkness.
[*]The change in power at the top unleashes an energy from deep within Cybertron and reformats the entore world and all those on it.

Primus was killed by Unicron during G1. It was at this point that Powermaster Optimus Prime realised the true reason why Primus created the Transformers - not to fight in His stead, but to carry on after He was gone.

Primus and Unicron are also unable to battle on the astral plane since they were "imprisoned" in their metal world-bodies (and possibly the creation of the multiverse). This also contradicts the whole Unicron story arcs in existing Beast Wars continuity.

Up to you if you want to make your story "in-canon" or not, but if you want to, then these are some issues to consider.

[Verno]

Alright Gok, lets dance.

I like how you gave new names for pre-Earth Tarantulas and Rhinox.

Taranachus is Tarantulas but Rhinox is still Rhinox. Csirac is a completely new character.

The Decepticons were supposedly leaderless at the end of the war, and the Predacons took the initiative to lead the Decepticons into signing the Pax Cybertronia. However, their policy was one of unconditional surrender to the Autobots, with the secret plan of rebuilding their forces to one day usurp the Autobots in the future - this would become the Predacon cause by the time of the Beast Wars.

I'm creating my own Universe and ending to the Great War, as nothing I've read is conclusive. I wish to borrow some things from canon and non-canon [like Furman's Alignment], disregard some others [like BM {which dissappears if you follow this timeline} BW Neo and BW II because I just plain don't like them and have no place for them in my Universe], and just plain invent some stuff, like Csirac.

With that in mind, I take Megatron as dead at the hands of the Liege Maximo at the end of Alignment and Soundwave in charge of the Decepticons who are basically a spent force.

This leaves me free to slot in a new origin for the Predacon Faction, as a means for Decepticons still keen to fight.

The "Maximals" was the name of the 'Maximal Upgrade' - the next step from Micromaster technology. In G1 Anglophone continuity, Micromasters were created as a means of conserving fuel by downsizing the Transformers. In Beast Wars it is stated that the BW TFs are smaller and more fuel-efficient than the larger G1 Transformers. This is why in "The Agenda Part 3" when Megatron first enters the Ark and views the G1 Transformers lying in stasis, he calls them "Archaic Energon guzzlers!"

Could the Maximals not simply be a small fighting force, like the Wreckers? But their popularity grew? Perhaps they were the first to have the mini-bot/protoform upgrade/downsizing, and became a very efficient fighting force?

As with the Predacon faction, I feel free reign to construct a new origin for the Maximals, and a more logical reasoning to later abandon both the titles of Autobot and Decepticon.

Rodimus became downsized by the end of the Great War, which makes sense because there was a Micromaster Hot Rod toy in G1 (came with Star Convoy) - and in during the time of Beast Machines when Rodimus is leading the new Wreckers, he is the same size as Maximals and Predacons; thus presumably Micromaster sized.

BM doesn't exist anymore We're skipping it and going straight to TransTech. The point of the Beast Wars was not to bring the organic back to Cybertron, but TransMetal Technology!

While it's never been explicitly stated that Micromaster technology led to the Maximal Upgrade, when you think about it, it makes sense. The G1 Transformers were already heading toward downsizing themselves to conserve fuel anyway... seems logical that they would legislate it as a standard requirement in post-war Cybertron.

I have no problem with this. What was first used as a weapon or advantage, was later used planet-wide.

Interesting.

Be aware by the time of the Beast Wars, Unicron has been physically destroyed -- presumably since G1. He only exists in spiritual form known as Dark Essence or Angolmois Energy. When Unicron destroys the Maximal Armada, he is still in spirit form, albeit fully powered by his Angolmois Energy (and using BW Galvatron as a vessel) -- then he possesses Vector Sigma and begins reconstructing Cybertron as his new body. All this would be needless if he already had a reconstructed body as you've suggested. So I don't know if you really want to keep the story of him having a new body, otherwise you'll need to find a way to have that body destroyed. But one would assume that if the BW TFs had recently destroyed Unicron, they would be more aware about the nature of Dark Essence and Angolmois Energy than they already were...

Also, other agents of Unicron include the Blentrons, Shokoract, Antagony and Cataclysm.

Also, Tripredacus was never made from Cybertronians. Neither was Tarantulas. That's why Tarantulas was willing to destroy the Ark and kill all the Autobots and Decepticons inside them, wiping out the existence of Maximals and Predacons. When asked about this supposedly suicidal plan, Tarantulas boasted that it would only effect Transformers "descendant from Autobots and Decepticons" and that he and the Tripredacus Council have "different origins" (and thus were immune to being uncreated at the destruction of the Ark).

*Takes a huge breath*

I'm discounting BW Neo and BW II, I may utilise character names, but the stories I've discounted completely. I've never been a fan so feel no requirement to use them.

So if Unicron appeared in BW Neo or II, I don't care. And if he was destroyed? Good for him. But in this little story, he's out in the depths of space, blackmailing a creature (could be another Primacron) into building him a new body.

Don't misquote Tarantulas. He says his origins are different to the Transformers on the Ark, and destroying it will have no affect on him. He's still a Transformer though.

He, and the Tripredacus Council, were part of the Cybertronian Empire, who left Cybertron well before the Great War and the time of Prime and megatron, and minions of the Liege Maximo. They were reformatted by Unicron thus becoming Unicron Spawn. I've got all the bases covered here. I'll draw you a diagram if you wish But the important bit is: They are still Transformers. they're not some alien race.

Early Transwarp technology was already underway during G1. This is stated in G1 Megatron's message encrypted in the Sounds of Earth golden disk from Voyager II. Transwarp technology was still in its infancy during G1 Megatron's time, hence he left a message for future descendants to use it to change destiny once it was perfected to ensure Decepticon victory.

Not a worry there. Csirac was nearing completion of the Technology, especially seeing as though they were at a testing stage.

Nothing wrong with having Maximal scientists working on and maybe perfecting Transwarp drive tech, but it would definitely not be in its early stages and more likely approaching its final stages. Maybe it could be like the Star Wars prequels were individual one-man starfighters needed to hook up to a hyperdrive ring to jump because the technology wasn't compact enough to fit inside the fighter -- so maybe they weren't able to make the technology small enough to put inside a ship so they need to hook up to an external Transwarp Drive ... thing. Or maybe it could be like in Transformers Animated where they have to have constructed Space Bridges and they can only transwarp between established Bridge points (whereas in Beast Wars they can transwarp into anywhere - like when Depth Charge warped out into a Quantum Wave ).

Maybe. I'll think some more on it.

This would go against the "unconditional surrender" of the Predacons -- but I do like the idea of them usurping Razorclaw. Maybe the Tripredacus Generals came in as Decepticons much earlier on - say after the events of Transformers Zone when Dai Atlas killed Predaking (and Razorclaw most likely didn't survive) -- the other Predacons would have been leaderless, and then the three Tripredacus dudes came into to bolster their depleted ranks; replacing their one fallen Predacon with 3 new ones. The Predacons were probably so relieved that they didn't think to question where they came from -- and then later during the Autobot-Decepticon war they could prove themselves worthy, gaining the trust of the Decepticons, and then orchestrate the assassination of Megatron, leaving the Decepticons leaderless and in a vulnerable position to be conquered by the Autobots.

The Trip Brotherhood has to enter when they did. They've always has a mystery about them, even to other Predacons, thus the mistrust, so if their origins (and intentions) are blurry, then all the better for their mystery.

Isn't Razorclaw shown still to be alive in one of the recent BotCon comics? He was an exclusive toy not long ago. So I feel free to still have him alive.

After all, it seems that the Tripredacus Generals' objective isn't really to help the Decepticons or Predacons win, but to keep the Transformers disunified and unable to unite against Unicron's impending attack. Perhaps Ravage could be one Decepticon who trusts them utterly, and you could have the Tripredacus Generals frame an Autobot (or maybe another Decepticon!) as Megatron's assassin. This would ensure Ravage's loyalty to them as the Tripredacus Agent with no knowledge of the true nature of his new masters.

Megatron was killed by the Liege Maximo. Ravage doesn't trust the Council, he serves whoever pays the cheques. His last words were "Decepticons Forever", not Predacons... He ultimately serves himself, thus why he turned on the Tripredacus Council and started following BW Megatron's orders.

Want to know what the Tripredacus Council actually want?

They were tortured and reformatted by Unicron, right? They know he'll eventually make another play for Cybertron and to kill his brother Primus. They intend to blackmail him with TransWarp technology, because they know exactly where he was when he was weak and could go back and destroy him then. They wish to be almost Gods themselves. Or as close to, having Unicron act out their will because they have leverage on him.

They ultimately fail though.

There's no need for Tripredacus to kidnap Tarantulas because he's also a spawn of Unicron not originally of Cybertronian creation. And him having a partner would be against his character who's just twisted and evil to the core. Perhaps you could transplant that story idea to Depth Charge - because we know that Depth Charge was once an ideal heroic Maximal (as Optimus Primal described him) who became all bitter and full off rage of Protoform X killed (ate!!) everyone he cared for. How much more awful would it be if he'd consumed Depth Charge's beloved...

I think you misunderstood. Taranachus is working for the Council and simply is requesting they send someone (Magmatron) to kidnap Csirac so he can probe his brain for answers.

Csirac isn't his partner. Taranachus is a Pred working on their own version of TransWarp technology but is ultimately failing until he gets his hands on Csirac.

I'e got other plans for Depth Charge. A spotlight issue.

I do like the idea of the Autobots using Transwarp drive to beat the Decepticons into submission though. The Pax Cybertronia is named after the Pax Brittania, which was the policy used by the British Empire to force other countries into submission in what was called "Gunboat Diplomacy." Rather nasty. I'd like to see the so-called "heroic" Autobots using questionable means to assure victory.

I like the idea too. I thought it was more like Hiroshima and Nagasaki myself, but sure.

I like this.

Me too. I like the character of Magmatron and what he was about in the BW comics Gathering and Ascention. He deserves some focus.

Silverbolt, Prowl and Ironhide were all rebuilt during G1 during the Earthforce Saga (which was Hasbro's push to promote the Classics Reissues in 1990-91). They survived the battle of Unicron and were even seen in G2.

Perhaps you could have Fireflight and Air Raid killed, and Slingshot and Sky Shadow reformatted as Decepticons in an early version of the Predacon Shell Program (this would explain why there are Predacons with their names in Beast Wars -- "Sling" (the dimetrodon) is the Japanese name for G1 Slingshot). So having lost his fellow Aerialbots, Prowl and Ironhide are reconstructed as gestalt members to combine with him to form Magnaboss.

As far as I'm aware, Ironhide and Prowl were killed by Megatron on an Autobot shuttle in the '86 Movie. "Such heroic nonsence". If they were brought back, well, they might just have been killed again.

The shell program doesn't work at this stage but it might be perfected later to be used for spying and subterfuge.

I reckon Springer and the Wreckers would be instrumental in this, as mentioned in the BotCon comics.

I'm sure they'd be on the frontline for sure. Perhaps they discoer the Predacon installation and attack it before waiting for re-enforcements.

This is good - but I think it should be, the Tripredacus Council pretends to care, and takes a lot of ineffectual action which doesn't really help the Predacons. The Tripredacus Council has always maintained a guise of working in the interests of the Predacon cause.

They keep making hollow promises to their people which they never properly fulfill. In other words, they're really good politicians!

There is dissent against the Tripredacus Council, it's written all over BW Megatron's face, thus prompting his actions because he's sick of waiting. They are dark and mysterious 'bots, let them plot and scheme in peace.

As well as Megatron and Galvatron... various groups of malcontent groups form within the Predacons against the corruption of Tripredacus, but perhaps the iron grip of the Tripredacus makes them all too paranoid to make contact with each other -- much like in the current V series with the Fifth Column and other anti-Visitor resistance fighters operating independently of each other.

Indeed. Schemers all over the place.

Nice!

I thought so. He's a genius and is seen reprogramming transwarp cells, so he must have had some history with the technology.

I think the Vok were always aware -- they just didn't know that some of them had travelled back in time and 'contaminated' their experiments.

Indeed. Time Travel capability made them more interesting and thus more of a danger and must be eliminated.

1: Tarantulas doesn't have a Spark that can return to the All Spark since he's of non-Cybertronian origin
2: After the Beast Wars ended, Tarantulas was ressurected in a blasphemous state of undeath because of the Vok power his body had absorbed at the moment of destruction (Undead Tarantulas = FoxKids! silver repaint of Transmetal Tarantulas). He rebuilt Ravage as Tripredacus Agent and began constructing new troops Razorclaw and Iguanus. The Vok responded to this threat by constructing Primal Prime (using the power of Optimus Prime's Matrix) and ressurected Tigatron and Airazor (as Transmetals).
Undead Tarantulas rips the Autobot Matrix out of Primal Prime's body
Tarantulas inside Unicron (Transformers Universe: events taking place after BM)

1. Yes he is. He is a Transformer and has a spark.
2. That contradicts what happens in Beast Wars: The gathering, where Magmatron puts Ravage's Spark into a new body and creates Tripredacus Agent. Contradictions all over the place.

I don't hold much stead in the BotCon comics, they serve their own purpose.

Contradictions all over the place, thus giving me even more leverage to make up my own story.

Primus was killed by Unicron during G1. It was at this point that Powermaster Optimus Prime realised the true reason why Primus created the Transformers - not to fight in His stead, but to carry on after He was gone.

Primus and Unicron are also unable to battle on the astral plane since they were "imprisoned" in their metal world-bodies (and possibly the creation of the multiverse). This also contradicts the whole Unicron story arcs in existing Beast Wars continuity.

Carry on his stead after he was gone? No, that falls to the Vok in this case. The Transformers are to protect his slumbering conciousness and wield the Matrix against the physical form of Unicron. Ultimately, the battle will end on the astral plane, and so much time has passed since G1 and BW, so both of them could have reappeared on the astral plane.

Up to you if you want to make your story "in-canon" or not, but if you want to, then these are some issues to consider.

This is basically my own Universe. As I said, I'm drawing on some canon, some non-canon, and making other stuff up.

I'm just trying to make a story that is logical and works from the 'end' of G1 and the Great War to the evolution of TransTech.

Questions?

[GoktimusPrime]

Well, if you're going to go with your own continuity (and drawing select elements from canonical sources) then you're pretty free to do as you like.

Alright Gok, lets dance.

Hey hey, watch that hand!

Could the Maximals not simply be a small fighting force, like the Wreckers? But their popularity grew? Perhaps they were the first to have the mini-bot/protoform upgrade/downsizing, and became a very efficient fighting force?

That's an interesting idea.

Suggestion: make it a hodge-podge crew of various Micromasters from different teams rather than sticking to Hasbro's pre-defined team. e.g. Swindler, Fixit, Powertrain, Groundshaker, Atlan etc. (just some random names off the top of my head) - that's one thing I enjoyed with the commando teams that Furman made in G1, they were random assortments. In the G1 cartoon they usually stuck with pre-defined sub groups from the toyline (e.g. Dinobots, Constructicons, Aerialbots etc.), but in the G1 comics they mixed them up more. e.g. The Wreckers had Deluxe Autobots with Jumpstarters with Triple Changers, the Decepticon Mayhem Attack Squad had Triggercons with Small Targetmasters (but not Quake) with Pretender Beasts etc., the Survivors had various random Autobots and a Decepticon among their ranks! et al. Maybe they picked the best Micromaster warriors, regardless of which team they had been previously assigned to and assembled them as a secret crack unit known as the Maximals - perhaps as a Micromaster off-shoot of the Wreckers hand picked by Springer to assist the Wreckers?

... just a thought.

So if Unicron appeared in BW Neo or II, I don't care. And if he was destroyed? Good for him. But in this little story, he's out in the depths of space, blackmailing a creature (could be another Primacron) into building him a new body.

Unicron did appear in Anglophone continuity too (re: Shokoract arc).

Don't misquote Tarantulas. He says his origins are different to the Transformers on the Ark, and destroying it will have no affect on him. He's still a Transformer though.

He, and the Tripredacus Council, were part of the Cybertronian Empire, who left Cybertron well before the Great War and the time of Prime and megatron, and minions of the Liege Maximo. They were reformatted by Unicron thus becoming Unicron Spawn. I've got all the bases covered here. I'll draw you a diagram if you wish But the important bit is: They are still Transformers. they're not some alien race.

Well, Tarantulas did explicitly say that the destruction of the Ark would only affect Transformers descendant from Autobots and Decepticons and that he and Tripredacus shared different origins, then later Megatron referred to Tarantulas as "Unicron spawn," and it's since been officially retconned as literally meaning that.

But in the "Vernoverse" if you wanna go with the Cybertronian Empire origin, that can work too.

Isn't Razorclaw shown still to be alive in one of the recent BotCon comics? He was an exclusive toy not long ago. So I feel free to still have him alive.

Yeah, fair point.

Want to know what the Tripredacus Council actually want?

Twinkies?

They were tortured and reformatted by Unicron, right? They know he'll eventually make another play for Cybertron and to kill his brother Primus. They intend to blackmail him with TransWarp technology, because they know exactly where he was when he was weak and could go back and destroy him then. They wish to be almost Gods themselves. Or as close to, having Unicron act out their will because they have leverage on him.

They ultimately fail though.

Heh, sounds similar to G1's Target: 2006 and the Time Wars. (great stories)

I like the idea too. I thought it was more like Hiroshima and Nagasaki myself, but sure.

Yeah, fairly similar. The Americans did copy the British in using Gunboat Diplomacy when Commodore Matthew Perry sailed into Edo Harbour with their heavily armed "Goodwill Fleet" and "persuaded" Japan to open herself up to the rest of the world.

But the British were extremely efficient in it - they called it Pax Brittania, Latin for "British Peace"; so "Pax Cybertronia" sounds like Latin for "Cybertronian Peace"... but how 'peaceful' is it really? After all, in Beast Machines the Vehicons did achieve peace... through tyranny.

As far as I'm aware, Ironhide and Prowl were killed by Megatron on an Autobot shuttle in the '86 Movie. "Such heroic nonsence". If they were brought back, well, they might just have been killed again.

That sucks for them! They were also killed in the Underbase Saga, then ressurected in the Earthforce Saga... and I don't think they were killed off since. Prowl somehow got infused with Nucleon and became a motorbike-riding Action Master. But hey... it's possible that they could've been killed at a later point. Ironhide did have 2 different G2 toys (Power Master and Go-Bot). <shrugs>

2. That contradicts what happens in Beast Wars: The gathering, where Magmatron puts Ravage's Spark into a new body and creates Tripredacus Agent. Contradictions all over the place.

Yeah, but the IDW BW comics have several contradictions with the animated continuity.

I don't hold much stead in the BotCon comics, they serve their own purpose.

Be that as it may, it's still official canon.

Contradictions all over the place, thus giving me even more leverage to make up my own story.

Well, mostly contradictions with IDW it seems. That's the main thing I didn't like with the IDW BW comics, especially the Ascending - on their own they're nice stories, but continuity wise they're a headache.

But hey, since you're cherry-picking canonical references for your "Vernoverse" story... feel free to pick and choose what you like.

Carry on his stead after he was gone?

Yup. RE: "On The Edge of Extinction." That's also when Primus was slain by Unicron.

No, that falls to the Vok in this case. The Transformers are to protect his slumbering conciousness and wield the Matrix against the physical form of Unicron. Ultimately, the battle will end on the astral plane, and so much time has passed since G1 and BW, so both of them could have reappeared on the astral plane.

Erm... okay, that contradicts with Anglophone G1 continuity. Also, Primus and Unicron are unable to return to the astral plane, regardless of how much time has passed. They left the astral plane and came to this reality around the "dawn of time" -- I don't think a couple more centuries would do anything. There's no expiration date on how long they'll be imprisoned in this universe; Primus saw to that... he made sure that neither he nor Unicron could escape this reality (and thus contain the conflict within a single multiversal plane instead of potentially infinite ones).

Anyway... your universe... do as you like.

This is basically my own Universe. As I said, I'm drawing on some canon, some non-canon, and making other stuff up.

Yeah, that's what most fan-fic writers do. I personally prefer in-canon stories, but that's just my preference.

I'm just trying to make a story that is logical and works from the 'end' of G1 and the Great War to the evolution of TransTech.

Well I guess that depends on how fussy you wanna get about canonical "logic." If you want to be more liberal and cherry-pick what you like from canonical sources, then you're basically following your own customised chain of logic really.

Questions?

What is the atomic weight of Boron?

[Verno]

That's an interesting idea.

Suggestion: make it a hodge-podge crew of various Micromasters from different teams rather than sticking to Hasbro's pre-defined team. e.g. Swindler, Fixit, Powertrain, Groundshaker, Atlan etc. (just some random names off the top of my head) - that's one thing I enjoyed with the commando teams that Furman made in G1, they were random assortments. In the G1 cartoon they usually stuck with pre-defined sub groups from the toyline (e.g. Dinobots, Constructicons, Aerialbots etc.), but in the G1 comics they mixed them up more. e.g. The Wreckers had Deluxe Autobots with Jumpstarters with Triple Changers, the Decepticon Mayhem Attack Squad had Triggercons with Small Targetmasters (but not Quake) with Pretender Beasts etc., the Survivors had various random Autobots and a Decepticon among their ranks! et al. Maybe they picked the best Micromaster warriors, regardless of which team they had been previously assigned to and assembled them as a secret crack unit known as the Maximals - perhaps as a Micromaster off-shoot of the Wreckers hand picked by Springer to assist the Wreckers?

... just a thought.

I've never liked the idea of the Maximals simply appearing out of nowhere (or so it seemed) They have to have their own history by the time the Great War ended, so this chain of events gives them that history.

Then as the protoform/mini-bot tech is wider spread, the resulting 'bots are more like Maximals than Autobots. 'Autobot' being their slave name given to them by the Quintessons anyway, weren't they?

Unicron did appear in Anglophone continuity too (re: Shokoract arc).

What is this Anglophone continuity?

Shokoract I'm dubious of as he's been used twice now: In BotCon and IDW BW. He can't be in both if both are accepted as 'canon'.

This term 'canon' is held with too much regard in my opinion.

Well, Tarantulas did explicitly say that the destruction of the Ark would only affect Transformers descendant from Autobots and Decepticons and that he and Tripredacus shared different origins, then later Megatron referred to Tarantulas as "Unicron spawn," and it's since been officially retconned as literally meaning that.

But in the "Vernoverse" if you wanna go with the Cybertronian Empire origin, that can work too.

I just like the neatness of it all, it all fits, and, importantly, makes sense.

You've officially coined the term Vernoverse.

Be that as it may, it's still official canon.

See comment above re: canon

Yup. RE: "On The Edge of Extinction." That's also when Primus was slain by Unicron.

So Primus is officially dead in all continuities? And the All Spark is something different and seperate from his 'spirit' or 'essence'?

Erm... okay, that contradicts with Anglophone G1 continuity. Also, Primus and Unicron are unable to return to the astral plane, regardless of how much time has passed. They left the astral plane and came to this reality around the "dawn of time" -- I don't think a couple more centuries would do anything. There's no expiration date on how long they'll be imprisoned in this universe; Primus saw to that... he made sure that neither he nor Unicron could escape this reality (and thus contain the conflict within a single multiversal plane instead of potentially infinite ones).

Anyway... your universe... do as you like.

Come on, they're Gods. Surely as they recover from previous encounters and gain strength they'd bust through that glass ceiling and back onto the Astral Plane. A God isn't a God unless he's sitting on a white fluffy cloud looking down on everyone. (I'm an atheist myself, so thats slightly tongue in cheek)

Yeah, that's what most fan-fic writers do. I personally prefer in-canon stories, but that's just my preference.

Just wait til it's published by IDW (or whoever has the TF rights at the time). Then it WILL be canon!

What is the atomic weight of Boron?

10.81

[GoktimusPrime]

What is this Anglophone continuity?

Anglophone = English language.
i.e. American, British and Canadian.

Shokoract I'm dubious of as he's been used twice now: In BotCon and IDW BW. He can't be in both if both are accepted as 'canon'.

Well, Transformers canon has always contradicted itself, ever since the beginning. BotCon continuity is more in line with the cartoon continuity whereas IDW continuity has more conflicts with it and is sort of a "splinter" continuity if you will (much like how the Japanese anime continuity was a splinter off American G1 cartoon continuity).

This term 'canon' is held with too much regard in my opinion.

I'll agree to disagree with you on that.

You've officially coined the term Vernoverse.

Hurrah!

So Primus is officially dead in all continuities? And the All Spark is something different and seperate from his 'spirit' or 'essence'?

Primus died in the Marvel Comic continuity - which was where He originated from. Because Beast Wars is really a continuation of the G1 continuity family and not any specific G1 continuity itself (i.e. BW draws elements from various G1 sources like the cartoon, comics etc, despite the fact that they're disparate continuities; BW treats them as the same), it's difficult to pinpoint precisely where Primus stands in the Beast Wars universe. But one would assume that Primus was no longer around considering that when Unicron attacked Cybertron and Vector Sigma, Primus did nothing. Also, Vector Sigma was proclaiming itself as "God of Transformers" - thus presumably taking stewardship/custodianship of Cybertron in Primus' stead.

Primus originally didn't exist in any other continuity outside of the Marvel Comics and Beast Wars... but 2005's Transformers Cybertron has since retconned Primus as a multiversal singularity, so if you want, you could draw Primus from another G1 source (e.g. the cartoon) and use that... since Primus was never killed in the G1 cartoon. Mind you, trying to expand on Primus' existence in the G1 cartoon can be very problematic! But there are other G1 sources other than the comics or the cartoon that you can draw on; they're just the most prominent sources.

Or you could just retcon G1 yourself, since ya know... it's the Vernoverse.

Come on, they're Gods. Surely as they recover from previous encounters and gain strength they'd bust through that glass ceiling and back onto the Astral Plane. A God isn't a God unless he's sitting on a white fluffy cloud looking down on everyone.

Actually the God of Abraham is unusual amongst Gods. He's more like a Super God. If you look at most Gods in other religions, they're not all supremely powerful, flawless and indestructible like the God of Abraham. Or Chuck Norris^Drift. Gods in a more Classical sense can be defeated - just not usually by mortals. Look at how the Titans were overthrown by the Olympians.

(I'm an atheist myself, so thats slightly tongue in cheek)

Perhaps because you have yet to discover the irrefutable facts of the One True Faith

Just wait til it's published by IDW (or whoever has the TF rights at the time). Then it WILL be canon!

Bring it!

10.81

You knew that without Google, right?