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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verno View Post
    Correct.

    There's only meant to be one Prime at a time, as far as I know, thus there is only one spark in the canister at a time, as a dying Prime (IE Optimus in TF:TM) hands the canister on as their spark rejoins the Allspark for good, and the new power up comes when a new Spark is 'chosen' by Primus (IE Hot Rod in TF:TM)
    Excellent, that suits me quite dandily.

  2. #2
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    Thus Primal didn't get a full upgrade because he took the Matrix into his body, but there was already a Spark being housed in it - Prime's.

    Also, the Matrix-canister become a vessel of knowledge of all the other Prime's that have come before and helps the Prime's that are to come.

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  3. #3
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    Transmetal Waspinator certainly existed in toy continuity. Too bad his vehicle mode isn't anywhere near as cool as it looks in pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Verno View Post
    I always thought a "Prime" drew their power from the Allspark via the Matrix.

    When Optimus Primal took the 'Matrix-shaped' object from Prime's chest in Optimal Situation, I believed he was taking the 'actual' Matrix into his body, as a Prime's spark is in essense already one with the Allspark inside the Matrix.

    So basically, The Matrix is a Prime's Spark that is empowered by the Allspark and is housed in the double-handled canister we know and love.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hursticon View Post
    Ooh! - Now, I like this.
    So every recipient would essentially hand over their spark to the Matrix upon receiving it yeah? and hence the upgrade?
    In short: no.

    However this is where things kinda get messy. According to G1/G2 canon, the Matrix is either:
    + A collective font of knowledge, according to the G1 cartoon
    + A divine artifact forged from Primus' life essence, according to the Marvel Comics.

    But what happened in Beast Wars was that Bob Forward and Larry DiTillio misunderstood the nature of the Matrix. Basically they watched Transformers The Movie and saw how Optimus Prime passed the Matrix to Ultra Magnus etc etc., but of course, TFTM itself doesn't explain what the Matrix is precisely. So Forward and DiTillio assumed that it was a receptacle to hold Optimus Prime's Spark - and thus that's how it was visually portrayed in Beast Wars. However Beast Wars itself never explicitly stated that the Matrix was a Spark receptacle... we just saw it become empty after Optimus Primal placed Optimus Prime's Spark into his body. The show itself never explicitly provided an explanation for this per se.

    As Odie said before, the Forward and DiTillio were researching G1 and G2 while they were writing Beast Wars; so in this case they didn't understand the full nature of the Matrix because they were only looking at one canonical source. And remember that in those days, TFwiki didn't exist. It's pretty awesome that Forward and DiTillio even bothered to give up their own spare time to research G1 and G2 (and also consult with fans too) to try to make Beast Wars fit into previous TF canon - as cumbersome as it was (is) - rather than taking the easy way out and doing a continuity reboot (which is what most TF writers have been doing for the past decade (>_>)).

    So if you look at Beast Wars in complete isolation (i.e. totally ignoring all other TF canon), then okay, the Matrix could be seen as a receptacle for a Prime's Spark. But when you look at it in the bigger picture and take in other TF canonical sources, then basically the answer is no. Especially since Primus has been retconned as a Multiversal Singularity too - I imagine that the Matrix across the multiverse may have been forged from Primus' life essence.

  4. #4
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    I'm sure, even you Gok, have to admit that a Spark held within a container, powered by the All-Spark (Ie, Primus himself) and is known as 'The Matrix' is a better notion than some mystical device held in the chest of a 'Prime'.

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    Transmetal Waspinator certainly existed in toy continuity. Too bad his vehicle mode isn't anywhere near as cool as it looks in pictures.
    I'd love to know how far down the production line Transmetal Scorponok and Transmetal Tigatron got. I know there are pictures floating around on the net of what they would have been like, but they make me sad that we didn't get a whole line of 'produced' Transmetal moulds of the show characters.

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    Wasn't Transmetal Tigatron an exlusive? Sure I've seen him for sale somewhere.

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    Yup, Botcon exclusive. Unless Verno means some other TM Tigatron that got cancelled, which is quite possible.
    TM Scorpy was a McDonald's toy IIRC.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verno View Post
    I'm sure, even you Gok, have to admit that a Spark held within a container, powered by the All-Spark (Ie, Primus himself) and is known as 'The Matrix' is a better notion than some mystical device held in the chest of a 'Prime'.
    Nope. I prefer the notion of the Matrix being a divine artifact that Optimus Prime carries inside his chest. But maybe it's my G1 bias kicking in there. As I said before, if you looked at Beast Wars continuity in isolation, then yes, the notion of it being a Spark container works. However if you want to look at it as part of overall Transformers continuity, then it doesn't because there's too much contradictory canonical evidence from other sources - and Beast Wars canon itself doesn't sufficiently support the container notion when faced against opposing notions from G1 and G2.

    While Forward and DiTillio had misunderstood the Matrix as being a container for Prime's Spark, this notion was never explicitly stated in the Beast Wars cartoon -- all you really have is an ambiguous visual cue; which confused the crap out of Transfans at the time and sparked huge debate about what it meant... until the truth behind it was revealed (i.e. misunderstanding on part of the writers). G1 and G2 canon on the other hand explicitly states the nature of the Matrix and does NOT state that it is a receptacle for a Spark (lasercore or life essence). G1 cartoon continuity states that it is a collective font of knowledge, and the G1 comics repeatedly and very explicitly defines the Matrix as being created from Primus' Spark and is thus a divine artifact. This is also why it is the one thing in the universe (multiverse) that Unicron fears - because it was forged from the life essence of Primus himself and thus it is Primus' power stored in the Matrix that can destroy Unicron.

    In fact, when the Matrix once attempted to attack Unicron (using Thunderwing as its vessel), it was powerless because the Matrix had succumb to evil - and as Unicron put it - in that realm he has no equal! (and thus destroyed the corrupted aspect of the Matrix, inadvertantly re-purifying it) It was only when Optimus Prime picked the Matrix up again and plunged it into Unicron's maw, that Primus' light - untainted by evil - was able to destroy Unicron. In G2 when Starscream used the Matrix to merge himself with Warworld and transform it into his new body, Primus' light started changing Starscream's behaviour - making him a force for good. This irritated Starscream who then surrendered the Matrix back to Optimus Prime. And of course, it was the divine power of the Matrix that defeated the Swarm, purifying it, and - as retconned - ultimately led to their evolution into becoming the Vok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ode to a Grasshopper View Post
    Yup, Botcon exclusive. Unless Verno means some other TM Tigatron that got cancelled, which is quite possible.
    TM Scorpy was a McDonald's toy IIRC.
    Yeah, I have that Transmetal Scorponok toy. I also have Transmetal Dinobot and Blackarachnia which were only available as Maccas Happy Meal toys (note I said Transmetal, not Transmetal 2 ).

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordCyrusOmega View Post
    Wasn't Transmetal Tigatron an exlusive? Sure I've seen him for sale somewhere.
    If you mean at retail, you're thinking of Transmetal II Tigerhawk.

  10. #10
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    No, no, no, no, no...

    TM Scorponok


    TM/Fuz Optimus Primal


    TM Tigatron


    TM Blackarachnia and others

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