Fan-backed Hasbro project: Unicron

[UltraMarginal]

I seriously doubt this thing can genuinely sell 8000 units direct to consumers (no retailers) in North America. But I would bet heavily that it's going ahead no matter what and the target is purely there to help encourage sales and lock in as many orders as possible. Hasbro are in total control of the platform, they will just flip that number past 8000 on the last day if they need to.

I think you're right, I'm getting a feeling that this 'crowd funding' is just another tool to engage the fans. They have put in so much work and development to this already, there must be some kind of mould already created, maybe even a soft aluminium or silicon mould. Close up shots don't show any striations like you might expect from 3D printed parts. even if it's just the visible parts of each mode, that's still most of it. Yes there's probably a fair amount of NRE (Non recurring Engineering ) left to perform, to clean it up from a transformation perspective but to not proceed with this now would be a massive investment loss for Hasbro and Takara. Especially that the fine print does say that they will be looking for other avenues to distribute to the rest of the world once funded.

I love it, looking at the entire figure, the back is very well layered and the legs are wrapped by a part on the heel that will/should help lock all the folded panels in place. I was wondering early on if they could have fit more of the panelling/shell into the backs of the legs but in retrospect that would mean they would have to fold up much more leading to smaller parts and a more fiddley transformation. and more likelihood of manufacturing errors.

I really want to get it, I have enough saved up, I just have to figure out if I want to fork out the dosh to import it from the states in some convoluted manner or wait and hope it gets released here or accessibly in Asia.
I also currently have no idea here I'm going to display it. but that's a third world problem.

[griffin]

I think you're right, I'm getting a feeling that this 'crowd funding' is just another tool to engage the fans. They have put in so much work and development to this already, there must be some kind of mould already created, maybe even a soft aluminium or silicon mould. Close up shots don't show any striations like you might expect from 3D printed parts. even if it's just the visible parts of each mode, that's still most of it. Yes there's probably a fair amount of NRE (Non recurring Engineering ) left to perform, to clean it up from a transformation perspective but to not proceed with this now would be a massive investment loss for Hasbro and Takara. Especially that the fine print does say that they will be looking for other avenues to distribute to the rest of the world once funded.

I agree with this sentiment, as I think they probably wanted to see just how much support there would be by the really obsessed people who want a (realistic) Unicron toy, could afford this at short notice... and if they got above a certain amount (which their bean-counters would already have designated), they would still go ahead with it. I think the Japanese listing will help get the numbers they need, and it should mean Hasbro HK should be offering it somehow as well, as they have a significant customer base as well (big enough to support BOTH Hasbro and TakaraTomy toys in their countries).
And since this would be a once-only toy (until probably the 50th anniversary) because this release will take out most of the people willing and able to afford a toy like this of a character that will only appeal to certain eras of the fandom, they are going to need to make sure this one production run pays for the entire process, and makes a bit on the side. My guess is maybe reaching six or seven thousand backers they will go ahead and produce their minimum number, and then sell off the rest to those who were able to save up their money during the 20 months it took to release it (or keep pre-selling it during that time until the total number are sold).

[Raider]

(or keep pre-selling it during that time until the total number are sold).

My money is on this. As UM points out, the cost of engineering already spent would be huge. They will not want to pack this in. Once they get an idea of US demand and then international demand, they will likely go ahead with this and allow for pre-orders to keep going.

[Sinnertwin]

Is it really *that* much though?
I've seen the video, and it's a bunch of clever nerdbombers drawing up the plans with CAD files or whatever and then transferring that into 3d forms. It's not like the 80's were they carved everything out of wood and prayed it worked. Unless they're charging 10K per hour to drag a mouse around, I dunno?

[UltraMarginal]

Is it really *that* much though?
I've seen the video, and it's a bunch of clever nerdbombers drawing up the plans with CAD files or whatever and then transferring that into 3d forms. It's not like the 80's were they carved everything out of wood and prayed it worked. Unless they're charging 10K per hour to drag a mouse around, I dunno?

oh yea, NRE is often the biggest cost in a design.
imagine, you've got one primary design lead who does a lot of the broad strokes heavy lifting, rough transformation scheme, then maybe 4 or 5 junior engineers working on the details (specific size of every hinge, fastener, type of fastener, the assembly process has to be laid out piece by piece to make sure it can actually be manufactured, how thin can pieces be before they're not strong enough, or how thick can pieces be before they don't fit in or through a space in the transformation, there are people working on the colour scheme, surface detailing, gimmick/mechanisms and all of this needs to be reviewed at some point to make sure no horrible mistakes have been made before going to prototype, someone going over the design to make sure it meets all the safety standard and requirements everywhere it is going to be sold.)

so maybe a month of time for a lead at $100 an hour
a month or two of time for 10 -15 other engineers, artists, safety engineers etc. at say $60 an hour
160 x 100 + 12.5(380 x 60) = 301000

of course this is a really rough uneducated guess, not knowing what sort of wages they're paying people in japan and the states, it could easily be twice that for something complex like Unicron or a Movie MP.
then there's marketing, artwork blah blah blah that they do for all their promotions, I'm sure that hooks into the company budget.
I wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't already sunk close to a million in to this.

[DELTAprime]

Not to mention the price of the moulds. Moulds are not cheap to create or maintain. Unicron will easily be a six-figure cost for the mould.

[Trent]

Not to mention the price of the moulds. Moulds are not cheap to create or maintain. Unicron will easily be a six-figure cost for the mould.

Remember Aaron Archer said the moulds alone for Generations Metroplex cost $300K USD. Taking into account the massive size difference and parts count, as well as the increased production costs in 2019, UMs estimate of $1M USD for production seems to be quite reasonable (and they haven’t even cut the moulds yet).

[BigTransformerTrev]

I agree with this sentiment, as I think they probably wanted to see just how much support there would be by the really obsessed people who want a (realistic) Unicron toy, could afford this at short notice... and if they got above a certain amount (which their bean-counters would already have designated), they would still go ahead with it. I think the Japanese listing will help get the numbers they need, and it should mean Hasbro HK should be offering it somehow as well, as they have a significant customer base as well (big enough to support BOTH Hasbro and TakaraTomy toys in their countries).
And since this would be a once-only toy (until probably the 50th anniversary) because this release will take out most of the people willing and able to afford a toy like this of a character that will only appeal to certain eras of the fandom, they are going to need to make sure this one production run pays for the entire process, and makes a bit on the side. My guess is maybe reaching six or seven thousand backers they will go ahead and produce their minimum number, and then sell off the rest to those who were able to save up their money during the 20 months it took to release it (or keep pre-selling it during that time until the total number are sold).

What I don’t understand which someone can perhaps explain to me, is why producing only a certain amount and charging near $600US would be preferable to the companies rather than mass-producing it and charging a lower price.

I mean, this is yes the biggest official TF toy ever produced to my knowledge, but it’s not gigantic in the grand scheme of plastic toys. And plastic and screws only cost so much. And this is a figure I could see a massive proportion of the fandom and even toy collectors in general wanting. So if the main cost is the design, why not mass-produce the hell out of it, stick on a more realistic price tag and make it available worldwide?

[Sinnertwin]

Then you'd kill the exclusive nature of it.
You can't have the common man owning one when you can make twice as much $$$.
Just look at all of the previous MP repaints for instance like SW and TC. R & D done, moulds ready, all they did was change paint and printed new boxes and booklets.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Then you'd kill the exclusive nature of it.
You can't have the common man owning one when you can make twice as much $$$.
Just look at all of the previous MP repaints for instance like SW and TC. R & D done, moulds ready, all they did was change paint and printed new boxes and booklets.

But that’s the thing - aren’t they better off making a good profit off each of a million toys rather than a high profit off each of ten thousand? Wouldn’t it equate to more profit overall by going the mass-production route?

I can understand having exclusive limited-edition repaints of a pre-existing and used mould, but if this is the only use of the mould why not milk it for all it’s worth?