Corrections and comments from Eric - promo event. (Spoilers)

[GoktimusPrime]

Uh... not really. Most animé-fans aren't even TF fans and are quite ignorant about Transformers overall - even in Japan animé fans have often asked me "Are Transformers Japanese or American?" My usual response is "both." But yeah, I find that most of these people are just unaware/ignorant rather.

As for people who should know better but fail to acknowledge one company's participation (and there are plenty of Western fans who are aware of Takara but regularly only refer to "Hasbro" as the sole creator of the Transformers franchise), they are either stubborn or lazy (i.e.: cannot be bothered crediting both companies - not even using the fan-abbreviation "hastak")... but hey... it's the same reason why some people can't be bothered discriminating between Bumblebee and BB even though they're two entirely different characters. Just laziness and unfortunately something we have to live with. :/

[Kyle]

Uh... not really. Most animé-fans aren't even TF fans and are quite ignorant about Transformers overall - even in Japan animé fans have often asked me "Are Transformers Japanese or American?" My usual response is "both." But yeah, I find that most of these people are just unaware/ignorant rather.

As for people who should know better but fail to acknowledge one company's participation (and there are plenty of Western fans who are aware of Takara but regularly only refer to "Hasbro" as the sole creator of the Transformers franchise), they are either stubborn or lazy (i.e.: cannot be bothered crediting both companies - not even using the fan-abbreviation "hastak")... but hey... it's the same reason why some people can't be bothered discriminating between Bumblebee and BB even though they're two entirely different characters. Just laziness and unfortunately something we have to live with. :/

I agreed with most of the above until I read the last part about BB. If one day HasTak decides to have a new character called "G1" appear in say, an IDW comic, should the fandom as a whole stop using the abbreviation "G1" to refer to Generation One, when used in a correct context? Even in a casual conversation between hardcore Generation One fans?

I'll continue to use the abbreviation BB to refer to Bumblebee, when I know the audience I communicate with knows full well which character in particular I was referring to. For example, if a discussion started off, clearly, as a discussion about Movie or Animated, I don't believe a person who claims himself to be a true TF fan would think I was talking about the BWII BB. Otherwise, it would be that person's own ignorance, not mine. Another example, say a fan reports in an acquisitions thread that he has just acquired a "BB" from Kmart. Now, while I cannot rule out the possibility that he would actually find a BWII BB from Kmart my common sense would tell me it would be a toy more likely from Animated or Movie.

[Tiby]

Ok people - best if we now leave the BB/Bumblebee thing there. This has come up before and not much good can come out of a continued discussion about it.

[Kyle]

Sorry.

[autobreadticon]

cartoon network has updated the competition drawing entries

[kup]

geez, all I wanted was proper (not assumed) clarification on the wiki article and the interview as both credit their subject with the designs alone.

It is very confusing (and silly) to credit the toy to a designer in an article without any explanation or without specifying what he did. At least it should be acknowledged that there were others involved in the design process.

It would have been much better if they had stated something like "He collaborated in the design of the following toys" than having a wiki entry that only credits a single designer and directly contradicts another Primary source, in this case the interview with the Australian Takara designer.

[FFN]

Uh... not really. Most animé-fans aren't even TF fans and are quite ignorant about Transformers overall - even in Japan animé fans have often asked me "Are Transformers Japanese or American?" My usual response is "both." But yeah, I find that most of these people are just unaware/ignorant rather.

I think you and Kyle were thrown by my Westerners thing. I meant the average non-fan-of-anything in the west and the western anime fanboy who is not a TF fan, not an East Vs West thing.

geez, all I wanted was proper (not assumed) clarification on the wiki article and the interview as both credit their subject with the designs alone.

It is very confusing (and silly) to credit the toy to a designer in an article without any explanation or without specifying what he did. At least it should be acknowledged that there were others involved in the design process.

It would have been much better if they had stated something like "He collaborated in the design of the following toys" than having a wiki entry that only credits a single designer and directly contradicts another Primary source, in this case the interview with the Australian Takara designer.

We went back and clarified on the articles to the best of our knowledge who they worked with and what they did if known. Don't blame us because there's almost a total lack of Takara details, since there's very little info on Takara designers and what they did, besides Ichikawa and Kubalsky.

[kup]

I think you and Kyle were thrown by my Westerners thing. I meant the average non-fan-of-anything in the west and the western anime fanboy who is not a TF fan, not an East Vs West thing.

We went back and clarified on the articles to the best of our knowledge who they worked with and what they did if known. Don't blame us because there's almost a total lack of Takara details, since there's very little info on Takara designers and what they did, besides Ichikawa and Kubalsky.

Then state something along those lines in the wiki please.

Tip: Don't be so defensive, this only started out as a question not an attack.

[griffin]

First up - Goktimus, don't criticise people for using valid abbreviations just because you don't like Bumblebee being called BB (when referring to topics that don't have anything to do with the BWII character). Not everyone has the time or patience to type out lengthy postings with no abbreviations. There is already a rule in the user guide about allowing people to use any comprehendable measurements on this board, so now I'll have to expand that to cover any comprehendable abbreviation as well.

Secondly - The issue about design specifics - The interview (and the tfwiki from it) are focused on Eric, not anyone else. We already know that it is a collaborative effort between Hasbro and Takara, and it was even mentioned in the report that Eric does concept designs, transformation ideas, etc, and someone at Takara does the engineering designs. There isn't any need to bog down the interview (and the wiki article from it) with that explination more than we already did. And it isn't very fair picking on Eric's entry, and not Alex's, who had the same generic listing of 'Designer', without more specific details that some prefer. Yes, it would be nice to know the specifics here on each and every designer, but for now, we may just have to do with generic 'designer' listed with anyone involved in the 'design process' of each figure.

The tfwiki isn't perfect, and is a fan project, so has to rely on any scraps of official info it can find. And since it is there for fans to use, it also can't be written up like a legal document just to prevent mis-interpretation.
Saying that a particular figure is creditted to one person, doesn't mean it isn't also creditted to others. TFs designs are a collaborative effort, and the wiki can only list those it knows about, or guess the roles they played *IF* there is isn't an official source for that info.
Unless you have an official source to correct an error or *significant* oversight at the tfwiki (or interview), don't criticise what is there.

I on the other hand DO have an official source, quoted here to defend the tfwiki on this:

it appears that some people are on the boards are confused about the TFWiki page updates. Particularly Board member KUP seems to have an issue with very specific clarification on the entry.

Feel free to post this info.

Paraphrasing - He states that the entry "Toys that Eric has designed" is misleading and implies that i have sole ownership over a design. He also gives a link to an interview with Alex Kubalsky in which he claims to have designed 2 particular toys that also appear on my list... KUP seems to want additional info to clarify what role i played in the design of these guys...

Explanation - as many of your board members know and have tried to explain, ALL TF toys are a collaboration between Takara and Hasbro. This means that every toy that is released by Hasbro has one Hasbro Designer and one Takara Designer involved per project. (the exceptions are obvious with Takara's exclusive projects like Alternity and Mickey Prime, etc.) Therefore it is not inaccurate for Alex and myself to both have credit for designing the same toy.

***Dirty Digger says that he'll chat with Alex when Alex returns to AU. I'm sure that you'll find Alex will have the same explanation as what i'm giving now.***

Now, perhaps KUP is onto something as far as what specific roles we all play in TF Design. I think it's a little tedious and probably anal retentive request... but All Hasbro Design roles could be described as Visionary, Conceptual Artists, Big Picture, Brand Managers... Likewise, all Takara Design Roles could be described as Creative Design/Engineers, Meticulous in their precision, Detail oriented, Model Developers. But no matter what labels you slap on something, it really doesn't do any justice to the collaborative efforts both teams put in. These labels create a generalization of our practice, and truth be told, all parties do much more than i just listed. The way our teams work together is a work of Art...

If you guys want, feel free to update my wiki site as you see fit, but note that there is nothing technically inaccurate about anything in the entry as it exists right now.

Yes, that's from Eric himself, via the people at Hasbro (I coloured some of it red for effect). As it would be expected, he has an interest in what people say about him from that Promo Event, both here and on the global forums.
Even though he names you Kup, he's not specifically having a go at you - he's actually 'personally' answering your query on the matter.
Obviously confusion on this issue could lead to erronous speculation and frustration between members, and he wanted to at least help clear it up as quickly as possible. He didn't have to, but it was nice of him to offer some light on the subject for you Kup, and the tfwiki team.

[FFN]

Then state something along those lines in the wiki please.

Tip: Don't be so defensive, this only started out as a question not an attack.

We've already modified the credits to list people who worked with [whomever the article is about] for X toys, if known.