POLL: Skids, Mudflap. Racist?

**Robzy** · 29th June 2009, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by JuzMel

Can we hear the voices of some black people pls?

There are heaps on the net. Here's one for starters...

Originally Posted by JuzMel

I don't have a problem with Mudflap and Skids only that they were pretty irritating in the movie

That's my whole issue with this thread... personally I wasn't offened either. But clearly A LOT of black people are. That's the point, isn't it?

It's not about if any members of Ozformers were offended, it's about whether we think it could be offensive to others... surely!

Originally Posted by Sky Shadow

I read the following article yesterday, and thought the first comic legend on the page was interesting in relation to this topic. How far the US has come (or hasn't come) in thirty-nine years:

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...-revealed-213/

Fascinating!

**SofaMan** · 29th June 2009, 07:02 PM

I voted yes. Sure, Skids and Mudflap are making fun of the stereotype, but they're buying into it as well.

Racism is the belief that race is a significant determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. (from Wikipedia)

Beliefs do not need to be conscious, or articulate.

Jazz used the stereotype to identify the character as having a 'black' persona, as a 'shorthand' for being able to round out the character. However, at no point was Jazz made out to be less competent, or less brave, or less educated than his more 'culture-neutral' (i.e. 'standard' American) comrades. Some might argue that the fact he was black made him 'less important', and thereby easier to kill off. It's a longer bow to draw, but a case could probably be made. Not by me though.

Bay takes a group of elements of culture that are commonly associated with African-Americans (ebonics; jug ears, bulging eyes and buck teeth from older representations of african-americans; gold teeth), and create two characters who are caricatures of African-Americans. The problem is, they do so in such a way that make those caricatures appear lazy, infantile, uneducated, poorly-maintained, incompetent.

Robzy lifted some arguments from that article; I thought it might be instructive to include a link to the video clip of racist cartoons as well.

It's the visual equivalent of a straw-man argument; create a caricature of an identifiable culture and make it appear foolish or absurd, then some of that apparent foolishness can then rub off on the authentic culture on which the caricature was based.

That it is done unwittingly does not excuse it - it merely demonstrates how ingrained racism is amongst many people.

We're still allowed to enjoy it (the film, not racism), but should ackowledge its shortcomings. It doesn't mean we have to refuse to see the movie, and wear ashes and sackcloth and beat ourselves up. It does mean we have to call it what it is.

TF:RotF is not the most racist movie ever made, nor is it the most sexist, nor the most violent. It does have identifiable elements of all of these things, and it behooves us all to at least be aware of them, as their effect on people's perception of others (in this case, minorities and women) is insidious and difficult to combat, particularly when the people propogating such stereotyping might be themselves unaware they are doing it. Particularly if they are doing it in an easily-dismissable way through robots, or a cartoon bunny rabbit.

**GoktimusPrime** · 29th June 2009, 08:00 PM

As I said before, the racial element is there - but I don't find it offensive. Now Robzy brings up the argument that it's easy for us to say that we don't find it offensive since most of us here aren't black, so I'll bring up again another example which is relevant to my own ethnic group.

The Neimoidians in Star Wars are commonly seen based on racial stereotypes of Asians. They have slitted eyes, dress in "Oriental" robes (though a lot of characters dress in East-Asian influenced clothing, including the Jedi who are essentially Samurai with laser swords) and speak in a stereotypical "mushmouthed" Asian accent. The poor lip-syncing on the Neimoidian puppets in The Phantom Menace also gave the impression that they were being poorly dubbed as in many Asian films/shows. The stereotypes are plain for everyone to see. In fact, in one photocomic made by ToyFare parodying The Phantom Menace, we see the senators from Neimoidia scoot in on their flying platform delivering Chinese take-out, with the caption reading, "Don't blame us, that's actually how they talk in the movie!"

Furthermore, the Neimoidians were portrayed as being a race of cowards - greedy and corrupt.

Originally Posted by Wookieepedia

Neimoidians placed tremendous value on wealth, and would go to great lengths to gain money and power. However, they were very easily intimidated, and hated combat.

Link
...such a comment is about as "racist" (or ridiculous) as saying that all Germans are anti-Semitic or that all Arabs are terrorists.

My Ethics and Education lecturer often referred to things like this as the "hidden curriculum" in children's literature. In one of his lectures he referred to the underlying racism in Tolkien; he argued that except for humans, most races in Middle Earth are intrinsically good or evil (unless they're corrupted by Sauron). For example, Elves are all good and Orcs are all evil. I like how Jetfire in RotF suggested that being an Autobot or Decepticon is an 'intensely personal choice'; establishing that their factions are political, not 'racial' (though it doesn't explain some of the typical cosmetic differences between Autobots and Decepticons, e.g. eye colour)

So as an Asian person, I can see the cheesy and corny Asian stereotypes in the Neimoidians, but I'm not at all bothered or offended by them. I find Jar Jar Binks to be far more offensive, and not because of his racial caricature against blacks but because, like G1 Wheelie, he's just a thoroughly annoying and canonically largely useless character!

Originally Posted by SofaMan

That it is done unwittingly does not excuse it - it merely demonstrates how ingrained racism is amongst many people.

Which indicates to me that the problem lies with American society, rather than with Michael Bay, who I seriously doubt would've put any thought that these characters could be perceived as racist; I'm not saying that they're not, but I'm saying that it's just not something that he would've thought about.

I've heard from several people who've travelled to and live in the United States who tell me that racism (and even allegations of racial segregation) is still rife in the U.S. You just look at the huge deal that people are making about Barack Obama being the first half-black President - to me that indicates that race is still a massive issue to Americans. Afaik John So was the first Asian to be elected as Lord Mayor of Melbourne. As a NSW resident I never even heard about it - didn't even notice that was an Asian Mayor until I saw him on the news for something related to Melbourne (and nothing to do with his election victory). In fact, his Wikipedia page makes no mention of this. I think it's simply because for most Australians, the former Lord Mayor's ethnicity is a non-issue. What the wikipedia page does talk about is the fact that he Lord Mayor of Melbourne to be directly elected by the people (previous Lord Mayors were elected by Councillors) - so it seems that Melbournians' affection toward him wasn't based on his ethnicity, but what he represented in terms of democracy.

Disclaimer: My comments about racism in the U.S. is purely based on second hand hearsay. Don't take any of this as gospel. Kaythanx.

**SofaMan** · 29th June 2009, 08:30 PM