TF Animated Ep15 - Megatron Rising part 1

[STL]

I thoroughly enjoyed this episde. The best to date. In a BW-esque type of way, many plot threads came together and gave us some of the payoffs we've been anticipating. It really succeeds b/c it brings together many levels of conflict. From Black Arachnia to Starscream to the Dinobots to they key itself, we have a tale that is very well constructed. It preserves the humour and fun yet gives us a story crafted with delicacy that is rife with engaging conflicts and struggles.

It gets us to take sides and adopt allegiances and look down on others. This creates a wonderful tension. BB and Sari are for instance frustrating in their departure and blatant disregard for the strategic weight of what Optimus is suggest. But you can feel for Optimus while you also hope Sari and BB don't get into too much trouble.

Prowl is independent. He has refused to tell Optimus about the Dinobots until now. You can appreciate why he has done so, but you can understand Optimus' anger at finding out. I think it gives an extra layer to Prowl to have not so willing to fall into line.

Starscream and Megatron's exchanges are delightfully intense. The duality there really makes the episode all the more engaging.

There are plenty more of those type of things and that's why this episode has me on the edge of my seat waiting for next Sunday.

The Dinobots were perhaps the only low point of this. I wish they were smarter.

I liked this episode, something that this series has proven is that it can handle Decepticons very well (with the exception of the first Blackarachnia episode which was crap IMO). Its a real shame that the Decepticon episodes are fairly rare and the bulk of the series are these really absurd and stupid episodes which bring down the overall series into lame territory.
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Agreed. I think it's because all the Decepticon episodes help to give significance to the larger Transformer universe. It's a constant reminder that the Autobots will have to come to terms with the bigger issues in the universe. I think that's why they work. It reminds that this insular city of Detroit is not the be all, end all of this conflict.

Anyone else here think that BlackArachnia has a very big part to play in part 2?

Definitely. I really enjoyed the twisted way the writers drew a parallel between her and Sari's plight. It made Black Arachnia seem a twisted and torn enough character while being evil and resentful.

Bumblebee still irks me though, but at least his little hissy fit was true to his character as well.

I agree. He's annoying but he's performing his function. I don't like him but little sister loves him. She wants one more than she wants a G1 Jazz now! *sigh* He's not the kind of character I'd like my sister to identify with but I guess to little kids his snappy repartee is rather alluringly amusing.

As for the issue regarding Prime, MV75 sums up my pov:

Seemed pretty much in character to me.

Sari wasn't cooperating and couldn't really understand as well as prime does the absolute danger she was in while holding the key. He had to step in and act as the "parent" instead of the "friend" to resolve the situation.

The dinobots existence and goings on behind his back without being informed totally mowed down his authority.

And bumblebee disobeying direct orders and thus ignoring him as a leader added to it too.

So he's got the weight of saving the galaxy from the decepticons while in charge of the all spark on his shoulders, while surrounded by insubordination.

I think it was very in character for Animated Prime.

I find it rather amusing whenever a new leader exhibits a high degree of doubt or frustration. Our fickle fandom is very quick to cast labels of "Rodimus" or "whining/annoying" on said character. Animated Prime here is a new character. He's never been a leader in the war. He was just in charge of a Space Bridge repair crew. That's nowhere near as significant as protecting the All Spark from the mighty Megatron.

TFA Optimus Prime is a noob for all intents and purposes. He is coming to terms with the role he must play. With more Decepticon numbers on Earth, the tension is visibly rising. He knows well enough that Transformers don't get destroyed. Lugnut and Blitzwing are out there somewhere. Starscream will be back. Lockdown has been here already. He's been entrusted with safeguarding one of the things that if in Decepticon hands could see the universe under the heel of evil. His frustration is understandable.

He's put up w/ BB and Sari, He's encouraged them to have fun. But crunch time is now and he's got to start questioning himself. He's angry b/c he can't bring the team together. And face it, he's right. They're not a team. They couldn't handle Starscream or Lugnut and Blitzwing. They're in big trouble. The pressure is on him to try and get them to fall into line at a very important juncture.

I think what TFA is doing is grooming Prime. They're going to make him Prime. Too often, versions of Prime has fallen into the role of leadership too easily. I think this Prime is serving the hardest apprenticeship yet. He's not the commander of the Autobot army. He's just a space bridge repairbot who has to assume responsibility. And I think it'll be entertaining to watch this Prime grow in stature.

[kup]

Agreed. I think it's because all the Decepticon episodes help to give significance to the larger Transformer universe. It's a constant reminder that the Autobots will have to come to terms with the bigger issues in the universe. I think that's why they work. It reminds that this insular city of Detroit is not the be all, end all of this conflict.

I still think that the 'filler' episodes (which are the mayor bulk of this series) could have been done, much, much better. There shouldn't be such a massive contrast between the Decepticon episodes and the regular ones.

I would be a fan of this series if most of the episodes were similar in quality as the Decepticon episodes but most of them are well..not so good (I am trying to be diplomatic here as I actually think they are crappy beyond believe )

I know that they are supposed to be filler episodes but fillers doesn't mean its alright for them to be bad. Look at the 2003 TMNT series, not all episodes are about the Shredder but many of their filler episodes are of similar quality as the main ones too.

[GoktimusPrime]

I find it rather amusing whenever a new leader exhibits a high degree of doubt or frustration. Our fickle fandom is very quick to cast labels of "Rodimus" or "whining/annoying" on said character. Animated Prime here is a new character. He's never been a leader in the war. He was just in charge of a Space Bridge repair crew. That's nowhere near as significant as protecting the All Spark from the mighty Megatron.

I'm not critical against Prime in this episode for getting angry and frustrated - it's just that I felt that it was over the top and kinda sprang out of nowhere. This is different from say when Optimus Primal was yelling at Silverbolt when he discovered his secret liaisons with Blackarachnia - the Maximals at that point in a very precarious position. And ditto when G1 Prime despaired after Ratchet's "death." These things were triggered after a series of events that led up to it - i.e.: events simmering to a boiling point until the character exploded.

I'm just not seeing it with Animated Prime. There was no immediate threat to the Autobots as far as he was aware of. As far as he knew:
+ Megatron: KIA
+ Lockdown: KIA
+ Blitzwing: KIA
+ Lugnut: KIA
+ Soundwave: KIA
+ Starscream: MIA
+ Blackarachnia: MIA

So at worst there are two Decepticons who might unite against them. And they have five Autobots. (-_-)

...actually, I forget why Prime doesn't just call Cybertron and tell them that they have possession of the AllSpark and request reinforcements for retrieval and extraction.

I don't dislike Prime in this episode at all - I just thought that the whole anger/frustration thing was overdone, to the point where he did things that were out of character for him, like outrightly refusing to listen to his comrades and simply not caring about Sari's feelings.

[The_Damned]

i dont know why everyone thinks the dinobots should be smarter as they are robotic dinosaurs which have been imbued with a spark and would be the equivalent of babies or children.

[GoktimusPrime]

...Soundwave was a mindless drone who was imbued with a spark but became self aware and decided that humans were inferior to machines and declared war on humans.

I find the Dinobots to be just really disinteresting characters. Even Noble/Savage was a far more interesting character, despite being savage.

[iceburn]

Gok, Soundwave wasn't really KIA...

[Tober]

Nor were the others...

I think you need to read what he wrote a little more closely. :P

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The Dinobots were daft in G1 so they are daft in TFA. Like the way some people are just born naturally stupid.

[MV75]

I don't dislike Prime in this episode at all - I just thought that the whole anger/frustration thing was overdone, to the point where he did things that were out of character for him, like outrightly refusing to listen to his comrades and simply not caring about Sari's feelings.

Dude, as a teacher you've been a "friend" to kids too long to understand that with sari he had to be the "parent". That is a command role which is too often confused with the friend (wrong) role of trying to gain compliance and teach socially acceptable behaviour. And of course the kid will then drop the "you don't love me" bomb to try and regain their past freedoms.

As for his comrades, he's simply pissed at being left out of the loop and disobeyed by his charges.

I thought I already explained that to you.

And I've also highlighted it before, maybe I need to make the font bigger:

Animated Prime.

This is not BW/machines/rid/g1 prime at all. He's not even currently in the same league of command as those previous primes were, so there is no comparison.
________
Mflb Vaporizer

[GoktimusPrime]

(OFFTOPIC)

Dude, as a teacher you've been a "friend" to kids too long to understand that with sari he had to be the "parent". That is a command role which is too often confused with the friend (wrong) role of trying to gain compliance and teach socially acceptable behaviour.

Being a teacher and/or parent of children are absolutely command roles! As a teacher or parent you can be friends with the child(ren) under you, but your primary role is to be their teacher or parent, which means that you are the authority figure.

(/OFFTOPIC)

And of course the kid will then drop the "you don't love me" bomb to try and regain their past freedoms.

Having freedoms is fine, but freedom is power - let's all do the Spiderman mantra now: "with great power comes great responsibility"! In Sari's case, being the key's custodian is a priviledge, one which comes with great responsibility - and part of which is not playing with it like a toy. Prime was right to reprimand Sari for mucking around with the key, but I thought the execution was out of character for Animated Prime and could've been handled gooder.

As for his comrades, he's simply pissed at being left out of the loop and disobeyed by his charges.

And that's fine, but why let your emotions cloud your judgement? As the Jedi teach, allowing your emotions to conquer you is the path to the Dark Side.

I thought I already explained that to you.

I'm not asking "why is Prime so angry" - explain it all you like, that was never my question.

And I've also highlighted it before, maybe I need to make the font bigger:

Animated Prime.

This is not BW/machines/rid/g1 prime at all. He's not even currently in the same league of command as those previous primes were, so there is no comparison.

*sigh* re-read what I've written and try again.

I was comparing the way that the other Primes/Primals were written in terms of character development - I was never saying that he's the same as those other Optimi.

The whole over the top anger/frustration thing that Prime had in this episode was conceptually good but I felt that in execution was overdone making it feel kinda out of character for Animated Prime. In previous episodes of Animated, Optimus Prime has never come across to me as being someone who would be so passionately and recklessly out of control with his emotions and allow those emotions to consume him, as it did Obi-Wan's appre--, uh, Animated Prime in this episode.

Look at Darth Vader (now please don't accuse me of suggesting that TF Animated is in the same continuity as Star Wars - this is just another character development comparison!!!) - we saw that Anakin Skywalker has always been a creature of passion and great emotion. In Episode I he had great compassion (selflessly wanting to help Qui-Gon Jinn & Co) and fear (for his mother). In Episode II we see that Anakin is frequently thinking more emotionally than logically in several situations, which cost him his right forearm at the hands of Count Dooku and of course, fostered the forbidden love between him and Padmé. His slaughter of the Tuskens was a sign of his anger and rage. But in spite of that, we do see Anakin always making a conscious effort to contain and control his emotions - even though it's an increasingly difficult challenge for him. After he killed the Tusken village he broke down and cried - admitting that it was wrong for him to do it and confessed his sin to Padmé (he later confessed it to Palpatine and a Tusken Jedi who advised him to confess to Yoda, but he never did) - "I'm a Jedi. I know I'm better than this."

In Episode III Palpatine seduced him to kill Dooku, but even then he instantly regretted it when he said, "I shouldn't have done that." - but finally he was consumed by his passion which of course allowed him to fall to the Dark Side of the Force. His passionate self, which came to be known as Darth Vader, betrayed and murdered his more rational self, Anakin Skywalker - hence why Obi-Wan told Luke that Vader killed Anakin.

So this is an example of an in-character character development. The story justifies Anakin "coming of rage." Obviously Prime's anger is no where near at the same level, but I felt that there was a lack of substantial development to build him to that level of anger and frustration, and the way that he coped and dealt with his anger and frustration just seemed out of character for him.

It's like, "WWAOPD" - "What Would Animated Optimus Prime Do?"

Gah, sorry, bell just rang so I don't have time to conclude this post well. :/

[griffin]

I see quite a few parallels between Animated Optimus and BW Optimus. Both are new to the leadership role, and as such, are only in command of a small team on one exploration/maintanance vessel. Both Optimus' are still yet to earn the loyalty of teams at the time of their arrival on Earth. Both tend to rely on a veteran of the team as a crutch, while having trouble in getting the rest to follow his orders.
The main difference though, is that Animated Optimus actually had military training (the amount is still yet to be disclosed), which should make him a more capable warrior, but his lack of military experience (like BW Optimus) is his flaw, so he doesn't yet have the confidence to tackle the Decepticons, or have the reliability of his subordinates following his orders without question.
I think the flaw of the Animated series is that it is being written too heavily for 5-8 year olds, so the behaviour and characteristics of the cast reflect the behaviour of that age-group, to make it easier for them to relate to what they are watching. Misbehaving, disrespectful, sneaky - concepts young kids can relate to, so unfortunately the 'integrity' of the Autobot name is being corrupted by the Animated writers just to get ratings.
I'm disappointed that Animated Optimus hasn't yet 'got a pair' after 15 episodes, and don't hold out much hope that he ever will if the upcoming storyarc pertaining to 'other Autobots' has him running around as a subordinate himself (I'm guessing this - it is not a spoiler).
At least BW Optimus had his moments when he would just snap, take charge, kick butt, and save the day.
It's not surprising that Animated Optimus hasn't really had this sort of moment, since most episodes so far haven't involved more than one Decepticon (if any), to threaten them.