... I would have waited an eternity for these...

[1AZRAEL1]

Damn, that is a great score then.

I'm gonna have to get you to hunt down an Overlord for me I think...

[Hursticon]

Oh man HD - This is awesome dude, congratulations!

I'll have to head over to your blog for the full story but man, he is one curiously cool looking figure and looks quite powerful in his black colour scheme - I think I can see why Megatron chose him as a Phase 6er, there's this sort of Elite-Warrior come Regal-ness to him.

What a great deal you got on him too, that is what I think makes this acquisition so good in a way as it's a bit of a 'flipping the bird' to the ridiculous asking prices that get applied to figures these days.
It's just really cool man to see you so unbelievably close to knocking off every figure you're after!

He's got quite a large amount of retooling to him though doesn't he?

[heroic_decepticon]

heroic_decepticon: before applying the stickers, may I suggest that you do hi-res scans of them and donate them to reprolabels? Maybe you can ask if they'd be willing to give you a set of those reprolabels at a discount price in return for your services.

That way you'd still be able to apply the stickers, and keep the originals unapplied too. Or if you really want to go ahead and apply the originals, at least reprolabels would have a set of them for other collectors.

Just a suggestion.

Hey Gok, I thought about this a lot. And have also talked to other 'holy grail' type collectors (for lack of a better term), to get their view.

* What I'm going to say might sound controversial or even evil. I'm not trying to be obnoxious, but have for a week or 2 discussed these issues with other fellow collectors who have the 'rare' Jap stuff and lots of unused sticker sheets which Reprolabels do not have *

No, I won't be 'donating' scans to Reprolabels. However, if I were to donate, I also won't be interested in getting back a 'repro' sheet based on what I donated - it'd be of very little value to me, and frankly borders on insulting. If I were to donate, I won't be expecting anything back from them.

These are my reasons for not donating:

1. If I have the genuine thing (which in Battle Gaia's case I do), I don't want or need the genuine articles to be stickered with repros. If I were to sticker them, I'd sticker them with the real stuff.

2. A good few collectors from TFW and myself really loathe the Gen-Y type sense of entitlement - ie: why are Transformers so expensive, they should be accessible, I am entitled to own it. There is an expectation from them that the community owes them the right to own 'rare' Transformers and that its the community that is at fault if Transformers are too expensive for them to buy. I (and a good many collectors) have no inclination of facilitating this (unjustified) sense of self entitlement - eg: I don't wish to provide a scanned Minelba sticker sheet to be repro-ed so people out there can repaint their Nightbeats into Minelba and have the stickers for it because 'everybody is entitled to a Minelba'.

3. I have no desire to help KO producers along. Imagine if Reprolabels have some of the rarer sticker sheets in stock (eg: Minelba, Battle Gaia, Guard City, etc). What's to prevent KO-ers from just buying from Reprolabels and then putting the sheets in KOs of Defensor and Bruticus (which they have the molds for) and repainting them in GC, BG colours and sell them as KO GCs and BGs. It'd be a cold day in hell before I facilitate this sort of thing.

4. For the amount of money that Reprolabels will make off it, they are terribly stingy when it comes to rewarding contributors - a sticker sheet here and there, some rub-sign stickers etc. It's such an insult, I don't even want it.

I dunno about unlimited freebies, but I think at least asking for free or discounted samples of the ones he's scanned would be within reason. And even without freebies or discounted, I would scan them as a service to the fandom anyway - as I said, there may be other collectors with these toys who might be adverse to applying the original stickers who would appreciate having repros to use.

Like I mentioned above, I think it'd actually be a disservice to the fandom.

I also don't see the point of buying a thousand dollar toy only to apply repros on it? What would I do with the original sticker sheet then? Don't see the sense in it.

I agree with the fandom part but when you have a rare item the least a business like reprolables could do is give HD a full set of the repro labels + X amount of sets of his chosing for providing them with this rare scan. I was joking about the unlimited freebies of course.

Reprolabels is a business & they make money from it. Out of their sale price they would be making at least 100% markup & likely 200% due to the cost of producing lables being relatively cheap. These guys don't do this out of kindness they do it for money.

Prowl, I completely agree with you. I have businesses myself and its a general rule that if you don't make at least 100% on any product that you are selling, its not a worthwhile business to do. I completely agree with you.

I can bet my bottom dollar that with economies of scale and it being an infinitely replicable product, once someone donates a scan to Reprolabels, that they are making a killing on each sheet. Any sticker sheet they are selling is unlikely to cost more than US$2 to make - hell, they could even outsource printing to India or China and get a bulk discount.

As the Joker said in the Dark Knight, "if you are good at doing something, never do it for free".

Sticker sheets are not like products that have to be put together or have multiple parts or other forms of intellectual property attached to them, they just print them off.

In once sent Reprolabels scans of Thunderclash stickers well over a year ago - They are yet to use them

Another reason for not donating.

[Prowl]

A good few collectors from TFW and myself really loathe the Gen-Y type sense of entitlement - ie: why are Transformers so expensive, they should be accessible, I am entitled to own it. There is an expectation from them that the community owes them the right to own 'rare' Transformers and that its the community that is at fault if Transformers are too expensive for them to buy. I (and a good many collectors) have no inclination of facilitating this (unjustified) sense of self entitlement - eg: I don't wish to provide a scanned Minelba sticker sheet to be repro-ed so people out there can repaint their Nightbeats into Minelba and have the stickers for it because 'everybody is entitled to a Minelba'.

I agree with this. Everyone is entitled to own whatever Transformers they desire. The thing is that like all hobbies it can not only be a expensive pastime but also like all hobbies it can take time to find the things you want & I am not taking about days or weeks but months & years in some cases.

Patience is a virtue many of the younger generation do not possess. I remember how cool it was to find a CD or VHS or whatever as a teenager/young man by lucking out in a store whereas today you can hop online & get instant gratification.

I have been incredibly lucky since I started collecting a few months ago with a combination of ebay, generous fellow travellers & lucking out at stores to have built a collection I am happy with & willing to grow.

I only focus on a few selected lines that float my boat. I want "it all" & I want it "right now" but that said I am realistic enough to know that due to financial limitations, common sense & a sound grounding in reality that is simply not going to happen. My collection will be built over time & selectively as I made the mistake of buying a few TF's impulsively & whilst not huge financial mistakes they are ones I do regret buying. A cheap lesson in reality I say.

[LordCyrusOmega]

I agree HD. Why hand over the things you had to work hard to get?
I myself eant it all and want it all now and this drives me crazy sometimes. I do however work towards what I want and expect to have to pay the asking price for it.
MP-05 was my grail for a long time and one I thought I would never own. When I eventually did get him it was for far cheaper then I ever expected. I'm still not entirely certain why people mark up the prices of things. eg if I pay $30 for something whenever then I'll sell it for $30. However people are entitled to set their prices and th majority of the time they are reasonable.
I've completely forgotten the point I was trying to make...

[GoktimusPrime]

HD: they're your toys and your stickers. You can do whatever you want. You're under no obligation to scan the stickers for anyone if you don't want to really -- it's not like you owe the fandom anything... I just thought it might be a nice thing to do if you wanted to. But if you don't, then that's up to you.

These are my reasons for not donating:

1. If I have the genuine thing (which in Battle Gaia's case I do), I don't want or need the genuine articles to be stickered with repros. If I were to sticker them, I'd sticker them with the real stuff.

Okay, but sometimes stickers wear out or peel or fall off. For example, one of my Sunstorm stickers fell off and so have all the leg stickers on my 1986 Cyclonus. I'm not going to buy new MISB ones just to replace those stickers! In such cases I would find reprolabels most useful.

2. A good few collectors from TFW and myself really loathe the Gen-Y type sense of entitlement - ie: why are Transformers so expensive, they should be accessible, I am entitled to own it. There is an expectation from them that the community owes them the right to own 'rare' Transformers and that its the community that is at fault if Transformers are too expensive for them to buy. I (and a good many collectors) have no inclination of facilitating this (unjustified) sense of self entitlement - eg: I don't wish to provide a scanned Minelba sticker sheet to be repro-ed so people out there can repaint their Nightbeats into Minelba and have the stickers for it because 'everybody is entitled to a Minelba'.

You know my personal policy... if I want a Transformer toy (G1 or otherwise), then I'll get it from a local retailer while it's current. That's what I did with Cyclonus - got him in 1986 (got a 2nd one in 1988, but I've since traded that one off yonks ago ), but after 25 years the stickers on that toy have faded, which doesn't bother me too much, but the leg stickers have lost all adhesion and have fallen off. I've tried gluing them back on, but they keep falling off.

Now I know someone who has Sky Garry and Grandus from their childhood... if the stickers on those toys started falling off simply due to age -- then I think they would appreciate being able to access reprolabels to replace them rather than paying the ridiculous (IMO) inflated aftermarket prices for some G1 toys these days... just for the sake of new stickers.

3. I have no desire to help KO producers along. Imagine if Reprolabels have some of the rarer sticker sheets in stock (eg: Minelba, Battle Gaia, Guard City, etc). What's to prevent KO-ers from just buying from Reprolabels and then putting the sheets in KOs of Defensor and Bruticus (which they have the molds for) and repainting them in GC, BG colours and sell them as KO GCs and BGs. It'd be a cold day in hell before I facilitate this sort of thing.

Yeah alright, I can understand this argument.

4. For the amount of money that Reprolabels will make off it, they are terribly stingy when it comes to rewarding contributors - a sticker sheet here and there, some rub-sign stickers etc. It's such an insult, I don't even want it.

Well... it depends how much of a reward you want. I'd be satisfied with the knowledge that I'd helped fellow fans. Although the notion of helping bootleggers is something I hadn't considered and that would bug me.

I also don't see the point of buying a thousand dollar toy only to apply repros on it? What would I do with the original sticker sheet then? Don't see the sense in it.

Again, what if the original stickers have deteriorated?

Prowl, I completely agree with you. I have businesses myself and its a general rule that if you don't make at least 100% on any product that you are selling, its not a worthwhile business to do. I completely agree with you.

I can bet my bottom dollar that with economies of scale and it being an infinitely replicable product, once someone donates a scan to Reprolabels, that they are making a killing on each sheet. Any sticker sheet they are selling is unlikely to cost more than US$2 to make - hell, they could even outsource printing to India or China and get a bulk discount.

As the Joker said in the Dark Knight, "if you are good at doing something, never do it for free".

Well, I was suggesting doing it as an act of charity for the benefit of fellow fans. But it was just a suggestion. Maybe I'm just naive.

But anyway, it was only a suggestion -- what you choose to do with your stickers is entirely up to you. I appreciate that you at least gave it consideration.

[heroic_decepticon]

HD: they're your toys and your stickers. You can do whatever you want. You're under no obligation to scan the stickers for anyone if you don't want to really -- it's not like you owe the fandom anything... I just thought it might be a nice thing to do if you wanted to. But if you don't, then that's up to you.

Hey Gok, first off, I need to apologise for perhaps phrasing my response stronger that I should.

For one thing, I love to help the fandom and have been doing so since '99 and even more so after I set up my site in 2007. It's just that I'm becoming frustrated with the way people abuse the material other people have given for free and out of the good of their hearts. Or when people use them to rip other people off or profit in an unscrupulous manner.

KO-ers using things like instruction scans, box art or sticker sheets from what is readily available online is becoming more and more real (and in fact has happened).

It's difficult to describe the rage that (perhaps a relatively small group) of G1-purists felt when we learnt the dino-casettes were being KO-ed. Like many desirable pieces, like even G1 Reflector, there goes many people's chance owning one of these pieces, with the peace of mind. There will always by some measure of doubt, and searching for the 'creme among the crap' would be so taxing and doubly difficult.

Have no illusion that the KO-ers cobble stuff together from online sources. If not the Zhong Jin KOs won't have boxes with misaligned lines, text placement and all that - ie: if all they did were scan the original boxes/cards, then there won't be such discrepancies like "Dinobot Bommander".

You know my personal policy... if I want a Transformer toy (G1 or otherwise), then I'll get it from a local retailer while it's current. *snip*

Hmmm... like mentioned many times, can't argue with this one way or another. Like I said, not many people are fortunate enough to have their childhood collection intact. I think more people fall into the "I didn't have this when young, I want to buy it back now" category.

Now I know someone who has Sky Garry and Grandus from their childhood... if the stickers on those toys started falling off simply due to age -- then I think they would appreciate being able to access reprolabels to replace them rather than paying the ridiculous (IMO) inflated aftermarket prices for some G1 toys these days... just for the sake of new stickers.

Hmmm... I don't know. If I had something left over from my childhood, it'd be in pretty bad condition because I kept playing with them and crashing them around, would have loose joints too. Chances are I would buy another piece in better condition (but still keep my original one)... then, same sticker rules applies I guess.

Yeah alright, I can understand this argument.
*snip*
Although the notion of helping bootleggers is something I hadn't considered and that would bug me.

At the risk of repeating myself above, it's pretty valid. I get quite a large volume of emails on my site either asking for advise on how to distinguish between KOs or telling me that they have been duped into buying KOs.

These things are insidious I tell you.

Well... it depends how much of a reward you want. I'd be satisfied with the knowledge that I'd helped fellow fans.

No, my point is that I don't want a reward. But if they were to offer a reward (and I know Reprolabels to be stingy in that aspect), I think it'd be an insult to suggest that for my contribution, I get a reproduction print of the sheet I just contributed and few generic faction symbol sheets.

Just check out Botch's site. Many of the key pieces of box art in high resolution and sharp as a needle, never before available unobstructed, were scanned, edited and contributed by me. I don't want a reward and have never gotten one.

But it still pains me when people abuse the stuff I have contributed to the detriment of community.

Again, what if the original stickers have deteriorated?

same answer as a few paragraphs above I guess.

Well, I was suggesting doing it as an act of charity for the benefit of fellow fans. But it was just a suggestion. Maybe I'm just naive.

But anyway, it was only a suggestion -- what you choose to do with your stickers is entirely up to you. I appreciate that you at least gave it consideration.

Gok, I think you have a good heart and have the community's interest in your mind.

It's just that I'm getting more and more disillusioned with how people abuse the stuff we provide.

To be honest, there are still lots of stuff I have that I believe bar a few people on TFW, the community has not even seen (or knows exists). Rare pieces of art, character designs, prototypes and all that. I also have lots of high resolution unobstructed box art of Japanese exclusives that I am holding back from Botch's... all these because I am becoming disillusioned and that it would break my heart to see people abuse it after I have given it free for fans to enjoy.

I am not alone in so holding back. There are a small group of us that have these stuff (or other rare unseen stuff), but really not providing to the community because we are just sick of it being abused.

[GoktimusPrime]

Grrr, it's always frustrating to see a small number of people abuse a resource and spoil it for everyone else. I've never been fond of bootleggers, but now that's given me a reason to hate^despise them even more.

[Hursticon]

Grrr, it's always frustrating to see a small number of people abuse a resource and spoil it for everyone else. I've never been fond of bootleggers, but now that's given me a reason to hate^despise them even more.

I completely agree with you Goki as I've had a discussion with HD along similar lines with regards to the Dino Cassettes on his Blog.

I love G1 Box-art myself and have acquired a number of images from Botch's site purely for my own enjoyment and I think that was always the intention of both Botch and HD, as well as all the others that have contributed to that site and the rest of the community, but I've often thought recently that unfortunately the site could also quite easily be used by KOers/Bootleggers do make better looking fakes and this is quite saddening.

It does not surprise me in the slightest that HD and others are now choosing to hold back and second guess certain contributions as it would be thoroughly disheartening to learn that something you've done for the fandom has vicariously been used to it's detriment.

I myself quite appreciate what Reprolabels provides for the fandom, especially as one who purely can't afford to buy multiples of the same figure but then I certainly don't hold it against those who can as I'm often green with envy in that respect , but I can now also see a little bit more from some of the contributors side and think that, should the contributor want it, they could be better appreciated by Reprolabels but I guess a business is a business and some are better than others.

At the end of the day though, so long as you continue to take your photos and scribe your write-ups HD, I'll be happy.

[UltraMagnus]

2. A good few collectors from TFW and myself really loathe the Gen-Y type sense of entitlement - ie: why are Transformers so expensive, they should be accessible, I am entitled to own it. There is an expectation from them that the community owes them the right to own 'rare' Transformers and that its the community that is at fault if Transformers are too expensive for them to buy. I (and a good many collectors) have no inclination of facilitating this (unjustified) sense of self entitlement -
.

Excellent reason to not do it. If people complain, do one thing. Get a better job, or save more money, buy it and you will appreciate how much these things cost.
Not doing this also keeps the value of the expensive item you bought