your thoughts on AFA ratings?

[Prowl]

As someone who is an historian, whose calling it is to explore history; why wouldn't I want to extend the same courtesy to some historian, hundreds and maybe even thousands of years down the track, that most historians would love someone from hundreds if not thousands of years in the past, to extend to them.

Are you a qualified historian? What a cool job I always wanted to be one myself. My areas of interest (well a little more than interest I suppose) are the Holocaust & Eastern front.

[bowspearer]

Are you a qualified historian? What a cool job I always wanted to be one myself. My areas of interest (well a little more than interest I suppose) are the Holocaust & Eastern front.

History undergrad but on track to do post grad and ideally a dioctorate. Doing a major in classics (primarily Roman and Hellenic) and a major in modern which is primarily 20th Century.

The more serious areas of interest for me include the Holocaust as well (specifically the Nazi Euthanasia Programme), the rise of neo-fascism in the Western World (and due to board rules, I will not be elaborating on that further ), the resurgence in pro-eugenic attitudes in the Western World post Nuremberg, and traditionalsim and gender movements and their impact on gender and social views towards gender.

The one fun interest in amongst the lot is the phenomenon of toy cartoon marketting in the 80s (primarily because of the cultural impact that mixing marketting and mythology had and continues to have to this day, along with the long term implications that has for pop-culture and society in general (but I suspect the moment I said I was a history undergrad that interest was taken as a given heh).

[robwin1974]

I was never a big fan of AFA or MIB/MISB but over time I have acquired a few. I dont think I could ever have a huge AFA collection because of space and cost but I like having a few of my favourite models. Simply, I do like looking them as a display - in my view it gives them a more collectible feel. But then again, for most of my AFA transformers, I have doubles to play with.

[Sky Shadow]

Not the sort of a debate you want ot get into with a double history major undergrad .

Why? That makes you less qualified than me.

Yet noone would think twice about preserving them today, thinking along the very lines you do. Yet that very thinking leads to the very gaps in knowledge that an historian hits because of a lack of literature or artefacts.

Why wouldn't an historian 2000 years from now be interested in what toys children played with, along with every other aspect of 20th/21st century history.

So for some reason there are still historians and other humans in 2000 years, and yet despite our world's ridiculous amount of information and material possessions, the only evidence left of eighties toys is ones left in acrylic boxes?

If you're going to be so against the notion of archiving for posterity, then you might as well oppose the perserving of artwork and the writing of history and archiving of records and documents- after all, it all takes place for the purpose of the preservation of history.

No. Artworks are meant to be looked at. Records and documents are meant to be read. Toys are meant to be played with.

[bowspearer]

Why? That makes you less qualified than me.

What I'm saying is that your mindset here is flawed for this kind of debate.

So for some reason there are still historians and other humans in 2000 years, and yet despite our world's ridiculous amount of information and material possessions, the only evidence left of eighties toys is ones left in acrylic boxes?

A majorly strawman argument here. For starters the Minoans were incredibly advanced. Then you have the pyramids, where if they weren't built by aliens then there was an advanced civilisation there, and if they were built by them, you still have an advanced civilisation there.

Yet practically everything from those civilisations is gone. Then you have the steam engine- first built by Archemedes. Gone. It took us 1700 years to rediscover it. We still don't know how the Romans were simultaneously able to blow 2 layered glass vessels- for now that information has been lost.

You talk about all the info we have- if we get hit with enough electro magnetic radiation in one hit- something like a massive coronal mass ejection, like the one which hit us in 1850, then all that information can be kissed goodbye.

Humanity has been "wiped out" multiple times in the past to varying degrees. Yet every single time we resiliently bounce back. Because humans are always curious, there will always be historians. When humans in the future get curious, then they will always want to find artefacts- the more complete and the better condition they are in, the better.

Sure there'll be evidence of toys in the future that aren't sealed up, but they're be a case of finding half an arm or a fist somewhere where historians are left puzzled as to what each individual bit is for, especially if they only find that bit.

A toy sealed in an Acrylic case though, has the best chance of being intact for them to study.

No. Artworks are meant to be looked at. Records and documents are meant to be read. Toys are meant to be played with.

In other words, we should avoid using items as evidence in court cases the moment they don't serve a function of being looked at in everyday life then. Considering that historical artifacts, or evidence, work the exact same way as evidence used in a court of law, that's exactly what you are saying.

[liegeprime]

Nah I dont think Id be a fan of AFA. Too pricy and I cant get to the toys when it's sealed like that, to play with. I do have some (only more recent versions) TFs MISC/B but they are doubles... more of actually a backup, coz the toys nowadays just don't have the sturdiness of toys from years ago. So i keep one more juuuust in case. I dunno how much AFAing costs but Ive often heard its pretty expensive for just 1 small figure.

@ Janda. I know the feeling of enjoying your collection just by looking at it, as well as being able to play with it. The casings look good as it really accentuates displaying your toys in such nice cases, but if your going to invest, invest it on good display cases not necessarily the AFA types, coz really I think that's what your after in the long run anyways...how to keep and display your toys minty good looking for so many years (even way after your gone).
Prolly have a look at acrylic display cases on sale at online stores, invest in glass display shelves as well. Id think you'd get more bang for your buck for those investment and as well as more cases too.
It's like (just an example) 1 glass display case + 2-3 acrylic display cases = 1 AFA'd toy. Id go for the former since as like you I dont have a lot of money to throw around so Id like to get MORE for my money.

[Sky Shadow]

A majorly strawman argument here.

A straw man argument is this:

Do you realise you just effectively argued against the existence of museums in general there (as every single artefact in a museum was originally a commodity of some kind, even if it was just a brick)?

and this:

The problem with your argument is that you're looking from the present forward as opposed to the future back, and your entire argument here falls apart as a result.

and this:

In other words, we should avoid using items as evidence in court cases the moment they don't serve a function of being looked at in everyday life then. Considering that historical artifacts, or evidence, work the exact same way as evidence used in a court of law, that's exactly what you are saying.

You, on the other hand, are likening unique historical paintings to

a lithograph poster

Unlike La Gioconda or Vase with Fifteen Sunflowers or No. 5, 1948, Transformers and other 80s toys - like lithographic posters - are mass-produced items that exist in such numbers that there will always be ridiculous quantities of them, not unique items that need to be preserved.

[janda the red]

Nah I dont think Id be a fan of AFA. Too pricy and I cant get to the toys when it's sealed like that, to play with. I do have some (only more recent versions) TFs MISC/B but they are doubles... more of actually a backup, coz the toys nowadays just don't have the sturdiness of toys from years ago. So i keep one more juuuust in case. I dunno how much AFAing costs but Ive often heard its pretty expensive for just 1 small figure.

@ Janda. I know the feeling of enjoying your collection just by looking at it, as well as being able to play with it. The casings look good as it really accentuates displaying your toys in such nice cases, but if your going to invest, invest it on good display cases not necessarily the AFA types, coz really I think that's what your after in the long run anyways...how to keep and display your toys minty good looking for so many years (even way after your gone).
Prolly have a look at acrylic display cases on sale at online stores, invest in glass display shelves as well. Id think you'd get more bang for your buck for those investment and as well as more cases too.
It's like (just an example) 1 glass display case + 2-3 acrylic display cases = 1 AFA'd toy. Id go for the former since as like you I dont have a lot of money to throw around so Id like to get MORE for my money.

hey leige...

it's funny, but after hanging around here for 6 months.... i agree with ya, the money could be better spent! however if i won lotto though... that'd be another story.

so far all the G1 stuff i've gotten hasn't been afa'd, but i am looking at grabbing a few of their cases to protect my precious lil babies.

janda

[bowspearer]

You, on the other hand, are likening unique historical paintings to

I take back my being nice about this, you ARE completely unqualified on this topic and it shows itself in spades as you continue to show a complete inability to grasp the way history and archeology work if you think that those studying ancient societies ONLY care about unique paintings and works of art. You're like someone with no building qualifictions trying to argue with a builder that the foundations to a building or supporting walls aren't needed on a house and it shows a mile off.

Unlike La Gioconda or Vase with Fifteen Sunflowers or No. 5, 1948, Transformers and other 80s toys - like lithographic posters - are mass-produced items that exist in such numbers that there will always be ridiculous quantities of them, not unique items that need to be preserved.

Right so according to you, highly advanced civilisations in the past NEVER had mass produced items that were used daily- after all if they did according to your argument, we'd have easy access to them. Yet we don't (including numerous ancient works like the books of Livy which were also fairly widely read by the upper class), funny about that.

[Demonac]

Right so according to you, highly advanced civilisations in the past NEVER had mass produced items that were used daily- after all if they did according to your argument, we'd have easy access to them. Yet we don't (including numerous ancient works like the books of Livy which were also fairly widely read by the upper class), funny about that.

I've watched Time Team in the past, so I guess I'm kinda qualified to add my 2c worth.
Aren't the items dug up from ancient times nearly always everyday items?
Coins, cutlery, pottery? I can understand why books wouldn't survive the test of time, as they decompose fairly quickly.