Secret Sightings Section idea

[Omega Metro]

Don't agree with a lot of what you said Gok. I don't think we should promote any form of hoarding to prevent others from a fair chance at picking one up in store.

It sucks for the people who actually make the effort to visit their local retailers and not find anything bc one person got in first and put the whole lot on hold. That's no better than scalping - because not only do collectors suffer but also regular joes as well as the children.

You could argue the positives as much as you like; but you need to see the other side of the coin as well.
Sharky - those words are spot on my friend. Fair way of thinking

Agree.
If someone goes to a TRU checkout with 5 MP Soundwaves and 5 MP Acidstorms then its scalping.....end of story. Also, I only live 5 minutes from a TRU and if I go there to find they are all sold because a friendly member has bought them all for forum members, more than likely I will have to travel further than my 5 minutes to get it from someone's house. A lot of people can't afford/risk buying a lot of these in one go either (like me).

At least promote that type of buying behaviour through private messaging on the forum, not through wide open threads.

[The_Damned]

good idea Gok it would help someone like me who doesn't live near toys r us. maybe a chance to get one

[GoktimusPrime]

I think it's highly unfair to say that this suggestion is no different to scalping. Scalping is an insidious form of profiteering. What I'm suggesting here is purely not for profit where toys would ONLY be sold for the same price that TRUs charges for these MPs.

If you don't agree with this suggestion, that's fine... but I really don't think it's fair to say that it's the the same as scalping. That just sounds like people trying to demonise this suggestion just because you don't like it.

Don't agree with a lot of what you said Gok. I don't think we should promote any form of hoarding to prevent others from a fair chance at picking one up in store.

It sucks for the people who actually make the effort to visit their local retailers and not find anything bc one person got in first and put the whole lot on hold. That's no better than scalping - because not only do collectors suffer but also regular joes as well as the children.

I'm only making this suggestion for high end collectible toylines like Masterpiece. As I said before, this suggestion does NOT apply to regular mainstream TF lines like TF Prime, Bot Shots, Movieverse etc. - the stuff that regular Joes and children would buy. I'm talking about lines that are geared more toward collectors. The Masterpiece line was intentionally made by TakaraTOMY as a high end line (that's actually what they call it) that's intended for collectors (in Japan the age range is "15 and up").

So let me make this very clear - I'm NOT talking about the regular TF lines that Mundaners and kids would be likely to buy. I'm only talking about collector-centric high end lines like Masterpiece.

You could argue the positives as much as you like; but you need to see the other side of the coin as well.

I have. That's why I've opened this topic for discussion/debate here rather than just going ahead and doing it! I honestly don't know if my idea is a good one or not, so I thought it'd be good to present it for a healthy and constructive discussion.

I do see the pros and cons of what I'm suggesting. Here's how I see it...

Cooperative Buying
PROS:
Collectors would help other collectors without financial gain. Collectors who would otherwise risk missing out on these hard to find toys (especially those who may not live near a TRU) and may be coerced into paying inflated scalper prices online. Also prevents toys from falling in the hands of scalpers (REAL scalpers) who would hoard these toys and sell them later at inflated prices.
CONS:
People not involved in the cooperative stand to miss out. Does it make us elitist?

No Cooperative Buying
PROS:
Everyone (who is able to get to a TRU) has the chance to get the toy, regardless of being a collector or child (or scalper).
CONS:
High end toys may end up in the hands of an unappreciative child (today I saw a kid holding BH Optimus Prime and he was bending the sword into a circle! ) or scalper. Collectors who do not live near a TRU are more likely to miss out without assistance from those of us who are fortunate to have access to TRUs.

Agree.
If someone goes to a TRU checkout with 5 MP Soundwaves and 5 MP Acidstorms then its scalping.....end of story.

So people who organise group orders are scalpers too? Cos aren't they doing the same thing, but only from an online store? The definition of scalping is:
to resell (tickets, merchandise, etc.) at a higher than the official rates.
to buy and sell so as to make...profits
You've never bought a toy for someone else or had someone buy a toy for you? Cos that's basically what I'm suggesting here, only on a more coordinated/larger level. I'm talking about ONLY selling the toys at the same price that they are purchased at, and not one cent above it. i.e. the buyer is merely recompensing the seller for the cost of the toy. It's EXACTLY what they would have paid themselves if they'd gone and found it at TRU themselves. Only that the seller has saved them the time and effort of hunting for one buy getting the toy for them.

Also, I only live 5 minutes from a TRU and if I go there to find they are all sold because a friendly member has bought them all for forum members, more than likely I will have to travel further than my 5 minutes to get it from someone's house.

Fair point. Then what you could do is hop on the thread and see if anyone in Perth is offering one. IF all those toys were taken by a friendly member, then that person should be offering them on the thread. You would then quickly reply and call dibs.

Having said that, I do see your point though. It would be pretty annoying if someone else went to your nearest TRU and cleared it of the MP you wanted, then offered it on the thread, but other people were all faster than you in hopping on the thread and grabbing them all before you could. Admittedly that would be pretty aggravating. Although on the flip side you could hope that someone else in Perth would get one from another TRU and you would jump on it fast enough.

Basically you either need to zip over to a TRU fast enough to grab one, or hop online fast enough to grab one. For most people who don't finish work until 5~6pm, they might have a better chance of hopping on the thread. I do see your point though. I sometimes feel that many of the MPs tend to sell first to people who are fortunate to have more flexible work hours.

A lot of people can't afford/risk buying a lot of these in one go either (like me).

Then you obviously wouldn't be one of the ones buying. The idea would be for people who see the toy and if they happen to be able to afford to get a spare, do so - then offer it on the board to a fellow collector at cost. If you can't afford it, then just get one for yourself and stick to the old fashioned way of posting a sighting.

At least promote that type of buying behaviour through private messaging on the forum, not through wide open threads.

Yes moderator.

It was only a suggestion. If most people don't like it, then just forget about it.

[BigTransformerTrev]

With MP Soundwave and Acid Storm around the corner, I've been wondering about something - given how hard it was to find MP Optimus Prime and Thundercracker (I personally never even saw 'Cracker in stores myself), would anyone be open to the idea of "cooperative buying" of these toys?

e.g. I don't need MP Soundwave, but say if I found one at a TRU, I could grab one immediately - then sell it to another OTCA member for the same price that I paid. It wouldn't be scalping, because the rule would be that we only charge whatever the store charges us (and people buying should only pay TRU prices). If people wanna charge an extra 'commission' for their time or fuel costs, then they should pre-arrange that with a buyer first. I'm personally willing to absorb those costs myself because I've had other people buy stuff for me plenty of times, so for me it's like paying it forward.

If people are interested in doing this, then perhaps we can start threads in Salesyard? The idea of this is that we ensure that these toys go to the hands of collectors rather than scalpers or children who may not appreciate the toys at the same level. I know that some people find this idea to be 'elitist' or 'snobbish,' but I don't. Masterpieces are explicitly designed for adult collectors (what Takara calls "high end" toys) rather than for children. I wouldn't recommend doing this for more mainstream TF toys that are aimed at kids like Transformers Prime, but I think Masterpiece is entirely different.

It's just a suggestion -- and if people are interested then perhaps we can start a thread. The rules would be simple... someone buys up MP Soundwaves and Acid Storms then quickly posts how many they have available to sell on that thread. The first person to reply on the thread (to avoid PM inbox clutter) gets first dibs on that toy.
e.g. say I buy an MP Soundwave from TRU, then post it on the thread. Now say The_Damned is the first to reply calling dibs on it. He pays me for the toy and gets the figure.

Whaddaya guys think of this idea? And also importantly, would such a suggestion be in any violation of existing board rules?

Totally on board with the idea!

Don't agree with a lot of what you said Gok. I don't think we should promote any form of hoarding to prevent others from a fair chance at picking one up in store.

It sucks for the people who actually make the effort to visit their local retailers and not find anything bc one person got in first and put the whole lot on hold. That's no better than scalping - because not only do collectors suffer but also regular joes as well as the children.

You could argue the positives as much as you like; but you need to see the other side of the coin as well.

Sharky - those words are spot on my friend. Fair way of thinking

Agree.
If someone goes to a TRU checkout with 5 MP Soundwaves and 5 MP Acidstorms then its scalping.....end of story. Also, I only live 5 minutes from a TRU and if I go there to find they are all sold because a friendly member has bought them all for forum members, more than likely I will have to travel further than my 5 minutes to get it from someone's house. A lot of people can't afford/risk buying a lot of these in one go either (like me).

At least promote that type of buying behaviour through private messaging on the forum, not through wide open threads.

Yeah but what do the likes of I do? I live a 5 hour drive away from the nearest TRU (Murrawee Victoria, the nearest is in Melbourne on the other side of state). It's not like I'm not getting Soundwave and Acid Storm because I'm lazy and can't be bothered to make it to the store, it's because it would be a full day trip leaving my wife and 5 month old son behind to trawl toy shops on the off chance of getting one. I was very lucky a mate got the MP-10 Optimus for me and posted it, wasn't so lucky with Thundercracker. While you say it's not fair to those that put in the hard yards and check the shops themselves, you need to consider is it fair to the people who cannot access those shops - is it their fault that TRU didn't build a store in their town?

good idea Gok it would help someone like me who doesn't live near toys r us. maybe a chance to get one

+1

[Defcon]

I think the tidiest way to help out other members, is to not list in sales, just make a request to offer assistance those who can't get to a Toys R Us. This seems fair. Having it in sales unfortunately will be disappointing for others who miss out retail, and then miss out again in sales!! I would be annoyed if I was one of those people. But then again maybe that's just how it is.

[lancalot]

i like the idea... looking at it this way... i rather a member buy it all and then rebuying it from him at cost rather then a scalper coming in and getting it all then selling it at inflated prices ... because no matter what we say they going to do it anyways...
I for one rather have that option of going on this forum and getting one if i miss out from the store ,then not and the only change of obtaining one from ebay at an inflated price?

[jazzcomp]

A lot of us miss out when there's a reservation basis. Calling in first vs coming to the store first which has happened to me with MP-10. There at lunch time but all were reserved over the phone.

I agree with the idea of members buying for other members. If there was enough for everyone, I wouldn't support this. But the quantity isn't enough.

Member here helped a few members out with Frosty cars that we couldn't find in our local Targets.

[Tober]

A big part of life is networking.

I don't see any way of regulating who buys what for who, but is there really anyone here who would be buying more than three at a time for themselves and other members..?

I said I'd help out The_Damned get a MP Soundwave if I found one. I'm after an Acid Storm, so far that's it for me. And if I end up having to pre-order from Hong Kong or Japan... <shrugs>.

[griffin]

The concept of a secret sighting section never got off the ground because it was polarising too many people. People who feared missing out because they didn't feel comfortable relying on others, or even contacting others, would see it as being "elitist" if other groups of members banded together to get to the occasional "collector-targeted" items before a toy-dealer did (or parents who just bought something at random and should have bought a mainstream item instead for their kid). Sure, we could try to reassure these people to get involved so that everyone who wants a sought-after figure gets one, but there will always be people who are unwilling or unable.


The reason why I was initially proposing an idea like this, was because, what's the point of having a community, if individualism is put first (survival of the fittest). A community only exists as a concept if those within it contribute, to get something back in return. In this instance, one-off high-demand items that aren't intended for regular kids or parents buying the odd Transformers toy, would actually go to the people TRU were aiming for... without having to pay more than retail, which would ultimately lead to a backlash to TRU. Their job is to get people into their store and relying on them so that they become repeat customers. Something that wont happen if a toydealer buys up all the stock and hocks it off at a higher price, prompting the target audience to just import anyway and not bother with TRU ever again.

I even went to the trouble of recently asking TRU to implement a reservation scheme, to allow people to reserve up to two of each Masterpiece toy, so that the target audience could be guaranteed to get one when they come in, AND, be able to help at least one other who is not near a TRU store. Because face it, most of us might be near one, but why should we be selfish and not help those who are not near one, by getting one for them as well.
(for those wondering - TRU rejected the proposal because they said it would be too difficult to implement... and they said that they were not allowed to demand ID proof when people pick up)

So for now, if you want to work together in a co-operative, communal manner to help out those who can't get to a TRU store when they are released, you can't do it publicly on this board.

[GoktimusPrime]

A big part of life is networking.

I don't see any way of regulating who buys what for who, but is there really anyone here who would be buying more than three at a time for themselves and other members..?

I might if I had the available funds at the time I saw the toys. As for regulation, it would be a case of "first post first serve" on the thread.

So say you buy an MP Soundwave and you post something like,
"Just bought an MP Soundwave. Who wants it?"
Then let's say The_Damned is the first to reply,
"Yes please!" then let's say Bartrim posts a minute later, "Me!" -- because The_Damned's post appears first after yours, he would get first dibs. If The_Damned bows out, then Bartrim would be next in line. You would then post to notify who will be receiving the toy (letting everyone know that it's spoken for), then PM the relevant party to sort out details.

Again, this is all just a suggestion.

So for now, if you want to work together in a co-operative, communal manner to help out those who can't get to a TRU store when they are released, you can't do it publicly on this board.

Well, that settles that then.